Demons, the scientific method.

[Greg1234]

I think not dying in early childhood is quite a lucky occurance.

Today you don't have to pillage a town for food, your identity can be stolen online.

 

[Greg1234]

By the by, among other things proper hygiene and sanitation significantly promoted longevity (Human Lifespans Nearly Constant for 2,000 Years | LiveScience, S. Worthen | Weblog - Demographics), and these things were already given (Bible Laws— The Foundation Of).

 

[Lillen]

After the motion picture, the exorcisten there has been an ongoing discussion around the existance of demons. The movie was based on a true story. May i ask, and i intend to frighten you, do you consider the bottom video a hoax? Or can we debate if there are evidences for demons, and debate if they can be observed?

Anneliese Michel , the real Emily Rose - YouTube

 

[Tiberius]

Even if the video is genuine, I think the first debate we should have is whether or not demons caused that or whether it can be explained by something else.

 

[Theofane]

Can you prove demons with the scientific methods?

No, no more than you could prove God with the scientific method. The supernatural is beyond the purview of science.

 

[Illuminaughty]

With se'irs or billygoats the sorcerers drink their blood, so that they can appear to the victim like devils.

Chupacabras drink goat blood too.

I used to have one as my familiar in Dungeons and Dragons. I researched a special version of the find familiar spell that can attract one for wizards with a chaotic evil alignment. It's lot better than a silly pseudodragon.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

No, no more than you could prove God with the scientific method. The supernatural is beyond the purview of science.

Suppose a demon came and did all the things you see in The Exorcist, or Insidious, or Constantine - why wouldn't that constitute scientific evidence for demons?

I don't think being supernatural means it can't be proven or disproven by science (unless you redefine your terms to the point of meaninglessness).

 

[AV1611VET]

Suppose a demon came and did all the things you see in The Exorcist, or Insidious, or Constantine - why wouldn't that constitute scientific evidence for demons?

Because science is myopic.

Wouldn't this demon have to repeat what he did before an audience of whitecoats?

What if he tried and failed [on purpose]?

 

[Theofane]

Suppose a demon came and did all the things you see in The Exorcist, or Insidious, or Constantine - why wouldn't that constitute scientific evidence for demons?

Demons aren't part of the natural world. They can't be studied by science. If they could, there would be nothing supernatural about them. Evidence for the existence of demons is something every scientist is trained to reject, anyway.

I don't think being supernatural means it can't be proven or disproven by science (unless you redefine your terms to the point of meaninglessness).

Proving the supernatural would be akin to admitting that there is something beyond what science can know. No scientist with a reputation to maintain would even attempt this.

 

[Illuminaughty]

On a more serious note... If demons did exist I do think it should be possible to provide scientific support for their existence because they are often said to influence people in ways that can be observed and quantified (flying through the air, speaking in unknown languages, etc..). Experimentation should be possible. People who believe in demons yet say "no" are probably just worried that they wouldn't be able to provide any scientific evidence so they just say it's impossible.

 

[AV1611VET]

On a more serious note... If demons did exist I do think it should be possible to provide scientific support for their existence because they are often said to influence people in ways that can be observed and quantified (flying through the air, speaking in unknown languages, etc..). Experimentation should be possible. People who believe in demons yet say "no" are probably just worried that they wouldn't be able to provide any scientific evidence so they just say it's impossible.

Do you think demons are just going to sit there and let themselves be interviewed, or jump through hoops while a shrewdness of scientists makes observations?

 

[variant]

The evil item (person, shark, ferret, housecat, whatever) is placed in the sample chamber where it is allowed to "outgas". The evil coming off the being will be collected into a secondary collection sample chamber and passed through the FID. The reason a "flame ionization detector" is used is because demons respond quite naturally to flame. It has to be modified in order to provide a hot enough flame (similar to the fires of hell) to create a measurable signal in FID.

The signal can then be integrated and the relative strength of the demon assessed.

So remember, when you are looking for good equipment for demonological studies, go to your nearest Fisher Scientific catalog and order the Perkin Elmer Demonscope 300R!

Preposterous. Everyone knows you detect evil essence with inductively coupled plasma torch measuring the evil atomic emissions.

 

[Illuminaughty]

You can put people under observation. If the supposed demons never act up when people are under observation then you have a found a cure (scientific observation) to some of the negative effects of demon possession so it might be worth trying*. Christians often say that demons act up during exorcisms as well. You can always have some scientists on hand for the exorcism.

* Don't want the demons pushing you around? Just have a scientists observe you.

 

[sandwiches]

You can put people under observation. If the supposed demons never act up when people are under observation then you have a found a cure (scientific observation) to some of the negative effects of demon possession so it might be worth trying*. Christians often say that demons act up during exorcisms as well. You can always have some scientists on hand for the exorcism.

* Don't want the demons pushing you around? Just have a scientists observe you.

Apparently that also works to disable prayer, miracles, and any other superstition of man. Funny how nothing magical or "divine" works when observed with the purpose of scientific investigation.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Demons aren't part of the natural world. They can't be studied by science. If they could, there would be nothing supernatural about them.

Bingo As I said (and as you agree), either science isn't restricted to just the natural, or 'supernatural' is redefined in terms of science.

If a demon came and did the things shown in Insidious or whatever, that's a demon (typically defined to be 'supernatural') doing something observable to science (which you restrict to 'natural'). So one of the two is wrong: either the demon isn't supernatural, or science can study the supernatural.

Either way, science is capable of studying demons - the question is where you draw your semantic line.

Evidence for the existence of demons is something every scientist is trained to reject, anyway.

You're right, how could I have forgotten my course in Demonology 101...

Proving the supernatural would be akin to admitting that there is something beyond what science can know. No scientist with a reputation to maintain would even attempt this.

Err, every scientist worth his salt freely admits that. The nature of science means that there are limits to it. It remains to be seen if anything lies beyond those limits - but the limits aren't what you think they are.

There are things typically labelled as 'supernatural', like demons and ghosts. But, by their natural, they fall within the purview of science. If ghosts exist, they can be studied by science - so either ghosts aren't supernatural, or science isn't restricted to the natural. Draw your semantic lines where you wish, but colloquialisms have no bearing on science can or can't do.

 

[AV1611VET]

Bingo

I'm not a scientist, but it seems to me that if a demon manifested itself and did some things, scientists would view him as an extraterrestrial, not a fallen angel.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

I'm not a scientist, but it seems to me that if a demon manifested itself and did some things, scientists would view him as an extraterrestrial, not a fallen angel.

Really? If I saw a girl's face morph into this:

I'd think 'demon' before I thought 'alien'.

 

[AV1611VET]

I'm not a scientist, but it seems to me that if a demon manifested itself and did some things, scientists would view him as an extraterrestrial, not a fallen angel.

Really? If I saw a girl's face morph into this:

I'd think 'demon' before I thought 'alien'.

Are you a scientist?

 

[Illuminaughty]

Apparently demons are shy around scientists. Demon possessed people could use that fact to their benefit for sure. Demon levitating you around? Just call in the scientist. Demon making you speak in latin? Just let the scientist walk in the room and it will stop.

 

[Illuminaughty]

Come to think of it you could just become a scientist and the demons would have to leave you alone.