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- Thread starter True Science
- Start date
Pseudo Ezekiel from the Dead Sea scrolls says nothing about trees (kings or kingdoms) bending down and then standing up or standing up then bowing down…here is the translation (parts in brackets are assumed):
Column 2
(1) (rested) the brilliant Light arose, and the four tree[s after him.] (2) A tree arose, and (the others) moved away from it. He (the Angel) sai[d to me ...’What](3) kind of tree is it?’ I replied, ‘If only I could see and underst[an]d it.’ [Then I saw] (4) a balsam tree... (5) I asked it, ‘What is your name? ‘It replied, ‘Babylon.’ [Then I said to it,] (6) ‘[Yo]u are he who shall rule over Persia.’ Then [I saw another tr]ee (7) [that was be]low where we were standing, and it swore... and claimed (8) to be different. (superior to the previous tree?)... So I asked him, ‘What is [your] name?’ [He replied ...] (9) I said to him, ‘You are he wh[o shall rule over...’] [By] (10) my power and by the region... he swore [... And I saw] (1 1) [the] third tree, [and] I said to [him, ‘What is your name?’ He replied,] (12)’Your vision ...’
So first it is not the Ezekiel Apocryphon but pseudo-Ezekiel, and secondly this DSS find has nothing to do with your point.
The only fragments of the Apocryphon we have, come from Christian sources (though perhaps written by a Jewish person). The earliest is from the Chester Beatty papyri 185 dated to about 50 A.D. and then one in Clement of Rome from around 70 A.D.! We also have later references from Epiphanius and Clement of Alexandria.
Now one quote is similar to what is written in pseudo-Barnabas (who did not write Barnabas because internal evidence indicates it had a Greek writer, thus pseudipigraphic) but neither of these is inspired scripture that should or could ever have been in the canon because they both are written by people who are lying about their authorship.
So one fictional writer writes something similar (probably read it in the other) another fictional writer who makes this obscure reference AFTER Christ had risen (around 30 A.D.) and if you read what you posted here you can see it is clearly not definite that it IS speaking of Christ.
Since the apocryphal symbolism of trees usually speaks of kings and kingdoms (but can typify the cross), it COULD BE a reference to Christ but also COULD BE a reference to another king or kingdom who “bends” (not dies) and stands again. Thirdly, if it were speaking of Christ it is clearly NOT a prophecy since it would have been written after the event.
Finally Josephus does make reference to the tradition of 2 books written by Ezekiel but it is totally an assumption based opinion (by a few like the Apostate John Crossan) that this other work is the Apocryphon.
Column 2
(1) (rested) the brilliant Light arose, and the four tree[s after him.] (2) A tree arose, and (the others) moved away from it. He (the Angel) sai[d to me ...’What](3) kind of tree is it?’ I replied, ‘If only I could see and underst[an]d it.’ [Then I saw] (4) a balsam tree... (5) I asked it, ‘What is your name? ‘It replied, ‘Babylon.’ [Then I said to it,] (6) ‘[Yo]u are he who shall rule over Persia.’ Then [I saw another tr]ee (7) [that was be]low where we were standing, and it swore... and claimed (8) to be different. (superior to the previous tree?)... So I asked him, ‘What is [your] name?’ [He replied ...] (9) I said to him, ‘You are he wh[o shall rule over...’] [By] (10) my power and by the region... he swore [... And I saw] (1 1) [the] third tree, [and] I said to [him, ‘What is your name?’ He replied,] (12)’Your vision ...’
So first it is not the Ezekiel Apocryphon but pseudo-Ezekiel, and secondly this DSS find has nothing to do with your point.
The only fragments of the Apocryphon we have, come from Christian sources (though perhaps written by a Jewish person). The earliest is from the Chester Beatty papyri 185 dated to about 50 A.D. and then one in Clement of Rome from around 70 A.D.! We also have later references from Epiphanius and Clement of Alexandria.
Now one quote is similar to what is written in pseudo-Barnabas (who did not write Barnabas because internal evidence indicates it had a Greek writer, thus pseudipigraphic) but neither of these is inspired scripture that should or could ever have been in the canon because they both are written by people who are lying about their authorship.
So one fictional writer writes something similar (probably read it in the other) another fictional writer who makes this obscure reference AFTER Christ had risen (around 30 A.D.) and if you read what you posted here you can see it is clearly not definite that it IS speaking of Christ.
Since the apocryphal symbolism of trees usually speaks of kings and kingdoms (but can typify the cross), it COULD BE a reference to Christ but also COULD BE a reference to another king or kingdom who “bends” (not dies) and stands again. Thirdly, if it were speaking of Christ it is clearly NOT a prophecy since it would have been written after the event.
Finally Josephus does make reference to the tradition of 2 books written by Ezekiel but it is totally an assumption based opinion (by a few like the Apostate John Crossan) that this other work is the Apocryphon.
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