Delaying the MMR vaccine...?

[jessesgirl]

Good question. We are delaying this one, she's due to get it in a week or so...... the way I have read it (but I really don't understand it) is that the MMR is linked to autism because its too much all at once combined with all the other vaccines given at the same time, for example, at the 12 month appt on a regular schedule they want to give....

Hep B (for the 3rd time since baby's birth)
IPV (for the 4th time!)
Hib (for the 3rd time)
Hep A (first)
PCV (for the 4th time)
DTaP -- which of course is the combination diptheria, tetanus, and pertussis (for the 4th time!)

PLUS.... MMR and varicella -or- MMRV (combination)....

This is not the same vaccinations we received as child.... they add more every year.... when we were a child it was just a few! What's really sad about this is that the repetition is almost completely unnecessary.... many children receive full immunity after just one dose... I was reading the CDC pink book the other day on the subject of pertussis and it says there is no adverse effects from spacing out the doses as far apart as you want to... the reason they give repeat doses is to catch some of the ones that did not develop immunity the first time. IMO it would make more sense to test their immunity levels than to vaccinate, vaccinate, vaccinate.... but that's what they do.... and I hate to say it but the vaccine manufacturers love it because they make 3 to 4 times as much money that way.

The advantages of delaying include a more mature immune system.... the ability to break up the MMR into 3 separate shots, measles, mumps, and rubella, and the morbid fact that if your child has a reaction at 18 months they can say "it wasn't the shot, that's normally the age autism appears" but if you have a walking and talking 3 year old who suddenly becomes autistic then...... what will they say that time?

As far as my situation, MMR is also a live vaccine which means it contains the chance of shedding and R (rubella) is dangerous to pregnant women. I intend to wait..... and while we are waiting.... I just HAVE to get the new Dr. Sears vaccine book.... that may give more answers than I have for you, I don't know.

What she said...except for the pregnant mommy part

Justin won't have his until he is three. It is the only vaccination that I am delaying. I am not typically adamant about things with his pedi...she knows best most of the time, but I was very adamant about this one and she said it was my call. JUst remember that as mom, it is ultimately your call

 

[Surrender2Win]

I just insist on support for ideas, and not just assumptions.

I think this is an interesting statement since doctors seem to be making assumptions that it isn't the vaccines...see I feel it goes both ways. We may not know 100% that some cases of autism are caused by vaccines, but we don't know 100% for sure that it isn't the vaccines. There is no 100% proof either way, as far as I have read. Studies have been done on both sides that support both. It's too iffy for me.

 

[jessesgirl]

I think this is an interesting statement since doctors seem to be making assumptions that it isn't the vaccines...see I feel it goes both ways. We may not know 100% that some cases of autism are caused by vaccines, but we don't know 100% for sure that it isn't the vaccines. There is no 100% proof either way, as far as I have read. Studies have been done on both sides that support both. It's too iffy for me.

No one seems to have full proof either way...so who do you believe? We as mommies almost HAVE to reach our own conclusions given the information that is out there.

 

[Leanna]

I think this is an interesting statement since doctors seem to be making assumptions that it isn't the vaccines...see I feel it goes both ways. We may not know 100% that some cases of autism are caused by vaccines, but we don't know 100% for sure that it isn't the vaccines. There is no 100% proof either way, as far as I have read. Studies have been done on both sides that support both. It's too iffy for me.

That's what bothers me too, being rather "proof" oriented I searched far and wide for some proper scientific studies but none are to be found because there have been none.

 

[Meshavrischika]

I think this is an interesting statement since doctors seem to be making assumptions that it isn't the vaccines...see I feel it goes both ways. We may not know 100% that some cases of autism are caused by vaccines, but we don't know 100% for sure that it isn't the vaccines. There is no 100% proof either way, as far as I have read. Studies have been done on both sides that support both. It's too iffy for me.

We don't know 100% that antidepressants treat depression, or that people cannot become addicted to pain killers if used properly but the perponderance of the evidence is sufficient to verify these things... where as the perponderance of the evidence does not support the supposition that vaccines cause weird diseases and should be banned because people jump on the fear bandwagon. They do way more good than harm.

 

[Meshavrischika]

That's what bothers me too, being rather "proof" oriented I searched far and wide for some proper scientific studies but none are to be found because there have been none.

There have been proper scientific studies unfortunately the two done found different things. It just happens the most recent ones found it didn't cause autism. Unfortunately, even if this is substantiated in the future, people will cling to the old studies findings because they are comfortable.

 

[Leanna]

There have been proper scientific studies unfortunately the two done found different things. It just happens the most recent ones found it didn't cause autism. Unfortunately, even if this is substantiated in the future, people will cling to the old studies findings because they are comfortable.

I am talking about double blind trials where they leave some vaccinated and some unvaccinated and there's a reasonable number of people involved. There are none.

 

[Meshavrischika]

Gillberg C, Heijbel H. MMR and autism. Autism. 1998;2:423–424.

Peltola H, Patja A, Leinikki P, Valle M, Davidkin I, Paunio M. No evidence for measles, mumps and rubella vaccine associated inflammatory bowel disease or autism in a 14-year prospective study. Lancet. 1998;351:1327–1328.


Taylor BME, Farrington CP, Petropoulos M-C, Favot-Mayaud I, Li J, Waight PA. Autism and measles, mumps and rubella vaccine: no epidemiological evidence for a causal association. Lancet. 1999;353:2026–2029.

 

[Leanna]

Sigh. I don't really enjoy being treated like I am stupid and didn't spend a year researching this. Can we just not argue about this and disagree?

 

[BananaCake]

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/38784.php
"Autism Rates Drop After Mercury Removed From Childhood Vaccines"

Of course, this does not apply to the MMR.

 

[Leanna]

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/38784.php
"Autism Rates Drop After Mercury Removed From Childhood Vaccines"

Of course, this does not apply to the MMR.

on that subject, I prefer this one ..... .Gov ... so its their own, November 2007

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/e...ez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

"The question of what is leading to the apparent increase in autism is of great importance. Like the link between aspirin and heart attack, even a small effect can have major health implications. If there is any link between autism and mercury, it is absolutely crucial that the first reports of the question are not falsely stating that no link occurs. We have reanalyzed the data set originally reported by Ip et al. in 2004 and have found that the original p value was in error and that a significant relation does exist between the blood levels of mercury and diagnosis of an autism spectrum disorder. Moreover, the hair sample analysis results offer some support for the idea that persons with autism may be less efficient and more variable at eliminating mercury from the blood."

Unfortunately you have to have a subscription to read the whole thing....

 

[BananaCake]

Thanks! That is helpful.

 

[seamonster]

Gillberg C, Heijbel H. MMR and autism. Autism. 1998;2:423–424.

Peltola H, Patja A, Leinikki P, Valle M, Davidkin I, Paunio M. No evidence for measles, mumps and rubella vaccine associated inflammatory bowel disease or autism in a 14-year prospective study. Lancet. 1998;351:1327–1328.


Taylor BME, Farrington CP, Petropoulos M-C, Favot-Mayaud I, Li J, Waight PA. Autism and measles, mumps and rubella vaccine: no epidemiological evidence for a causal association. Lancet. 1999;353:2026–2029.

Thanks for these sources! Do you know if there are any more recent studies that have been done by these groups that show a link?

 

[jgonz]

I think we DO have to take into account families' experiences with vaccinations and side effects, not just want irrefutable proof from multiple studies.

I honestly believe that government studies are NOT going to prove that vaccines can cause autism, diabetes, all varieties of auto-immune diseases, alzheimer's, etc. because then they would have to Admit that they were Wrong and they would have to Pay through the nose for all the malpractice suits!

I do Not believe that ALL cases of autism (or the other illnesses I mentioned above) are caused by shots. However I Do believe they CAN be, for the unfortunate ones who's bodies can't deal with (or have certain genetic predispositions to) certain combinations of chemicals and toxins in the shots. And for some babies/toddlers, it's the sheer Number of shots their little bodies are given at one time.

My 13.5 yr old son was vaccine damaged. Can I Prove that? No. But I know in my Gut that it was the combination of the HepB at birth & 2wks, and then the 2 month shots that caused his issues. He almost died the 2nd night after his 2 month shots, but the ped refused to accept (or admit) that it Could have been the shots. And I was naive enough to believe him. So I kept on vaccinating him at the recommended ages. I believe if I ever had him tested, he'd be on the high functioning end of the Autism spectrum. He has Soooo many of the "symptoms". But I know in my gut, after YEARS of researching and reading and hearing other families' experiences that it WAS the shots that did him in. None of my other children have anything Close to the issues he has. He knows he's different too, which is Very hard for me to hear him say.

He's doing better now on a variety of supplements and a heavy metal detox combo, which proves _to me_ that it Was the heavy metals and crud in the shots that did this to him. When he slacks off of the supplements, he can definately feel the difference. His focusing ability is much harder again, and he acts oddly in social situations again. It's all so difficult... and I know that it was only G-d's grace that prevented his situation from being worse.

Have any of you read Jenny McCarthy's book? I've seen her on a couple of talk shows talking about all of this and she has got a great deal of information to share and is extremely well-spoken.