Deity = Possible?

[Penumbra]

A few comments...

If we consider say what would be the odds that a relatively unknown itinerant preacher would have an influence on future societies say greater than the Caesars? They would probably be astronomical.

What would be the odds that a relatively unknown and illiterate camel driver in Arabia have on the course of future history of the world? Again it would be astronomical against such a thing happening..

I don't think those things are astronomically improbable at all.

Preachers and their religion go straight to the heart of humanity's biggest questions, biggest fears, and highest hopes, so it's not unusual that a very small subset out of the countless preachers become internationally famous.

Have you experienced a consciousness from your early childhood? You know that all the cells in your body are constantly transforming and passing through it and can you explain that consciousness?

Yes, I'm conscious. I don't see how that relates...

and have you ever experienced say something like a foreboding or warning of something that has yet to happen and it happens?

no

Have you ever had an experience when you knew exactly what someone else was experiencing even though you were say at a great distance?

no

Without a doubt, you have already gotten your good reasons.

Which ones?

The atom look like just like a Solar system or a sun,

In what way does the atom look like the solar system?

It's completely different. Only the simplified textbook versions that try to provide a basic understanding of the atom look like solar systems because we can relate to that. The actual atom is completely different.

In this regard, to assume that humans represent the highest self-conscious specie in the universe with abilities to do these things would be an act of ignorance.

Kutte

Not believing in a god does not mean someone believes that there are no higher intelligences out there. I think it's probable that there are many civilizations more advanced than ours out there.

-Lyn

 

[dewaddict84]

I too am drawn to correct the errors of foamy.

the percentage of oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen in the Air we breath

Has changed over time. In fact, prior to the plant uprising, there was significantly less oxygen. Plants generate energy by converting something into oxygen, and over a vast period of time changed the air composition. Animals arose later and were able to generate energy by converting oxygen into CO2.

how the animals and trees are balanced in nature (if human did not Interfere)

It's not so much a balance as you think. I mean, it's fairly balanced, but things go extinct because things are off balance. But let's take rabbits or deer for example. They very often over-breed, eat all the vegetation, get horrible diseases and die off. Sure, as a species they've lived so far, but it's really more of a cycle then a balance.

The atom look like just like a Solar system or a sun,

No. This isn't right at all. Yes, I had the same idea when I was in elementary too. The depiction in the science books for hydrogen and helium really does look similar to the similar to the solar system. But the solar system is flat due to the spiraling consolidation period of it's birth and electrons are free to roam around in randomish patterns around the protons. Furthermore, once you get into the second shell, it's no longer a spherical pattern they make but more of a dumbbell shape, which is nothing like the solar system.

Who made the Physical laws?

Actually it appears that the physical laws of the universe, some of them at least, are a byproduct of how the universe cooled in the first second after the big bang. It decided how gravity works and why atoms stick together. And yeah, random would be a good word here. No one did it.

Can Science prove that all of that happened randomly and from nothing?

Not from nothing. The big bang occurred from a singularity. What caused the singularity is a very good, but very difficult question, as the pre-big bang existence was, well, blown away.

There's still a lot of room for conjecture, and a lot of the details still need to be ironed out, but we have a pretty good idea of how all this happened. Is an afterlife possible? Yes, but your body is staying right here. For that matter, all this could be a simulated experience, and you could be wired into the matrix.

As for what's probable, and how you want to live your life based thereof, those are philosophical questions that only you can answer. For most of the physical ones, we've got your back.

 

[Arthra]

Lyn!

Thanks for your post!

You (Prenumbra) wrote the following:

I don't think those things are astronomically improbable at all.

I think they are as a student of history it seems to me that the Messengers of God go against incredible odds... You have a right of course to disagree with me.

Penumbra wrote above:

Preachers and their religion go straight to the heart of humanity's biggest questions, biggest fears, and highest hopes, so it's not unusual that a very small subset out of the countless preachers become internationally famous.

My comment:

I'm really not myself that interested in "preachers" anyway.. Preachers, Priests, Mullahs have pretty much discredited themselves in my view and they are pretty good at going about discrediting themselves without anyone elses assistance..

Nice to know you are "conscious"! That's a start.

- Art

 

[Eudaimonist]

to assume that humans represent the highest self-conscious specie in the universe with abilities to do these things would be an act of ignorance.

That's a reasonable tentative assumption pending further evidence, nevertheless.

Maybe Cthulhu exists -- we can imagine this, at least -- but there's no point in getting ahead of ourselves.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Wicked Willow]

That's a reasonable tentative assumption pending further evidence, nevertheless.

Maybe Cthulhu exists -- we can imagine this, at least -- but there's no point in getting ahead of ourselves.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Let's also not forget that science makes no claim whatsoever with regards to humans being the "highest" self-conscious species in the universe. Or with regards to Earth being the only planet that has produced life, either.

From that to "there must be a God who dictated books with moral instructions to the ancients", however, it's a long, long way indeed.

 

[Wicked Willow]

It's hypothetically possible that the chewing gum wrapper on my front porch was put there by extra-dimensional alien intelligences, who used technology beyond our wildest imagination to create that piece of paper ex nihilo in order to test my reaction to littering.

As far more reasonable (and likely) explanations are available, however, it'd make little sense to assume such things.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

When looking at the living world around us, we will recognize that there are many levels of consciousness. An ant, for instance, may think that only ant populations have the ability to communicate and be creative on purpose while lacking any awareness of other self-conscious beings capable of building giant cities, roads, and transportation methods.
In this regard, to assume that humans represent the highest self-conscious specie in the universe with abilities to do these things would be an act of ignorance.

Kutte

Unless, of course, we really are the highest self-concious species in the universe. After all, we've yet to see anything with a higher conciousness than us. Surely it's presumptuous of us to over-extrapolate what we see on Earth?

 

[Penumbra]

Lyn!

Thanks for your post!

You (Prenumbra) wrote the following:

I don't think those things are astronomically improbable at all.

I think they are as a student of history it seems to me that the Messengers of God go against incredible odds... You have a right of course to disagree with me.

Penumbra wrote above:

Preachers and their religion go straight to the heart of humanity's biggest questions, biggest fears, and highest hopes, so it's not unusual that a very small subset out of the countless preachers become internationally famous.

My comment:

I'm really not myself that interested in "preachers" anyway.. Preachers, Priests, Mullahs have pretty much discredited themselves in my view and they are pretty good at going about discrediting themselves without anyone elses assistance..

Nice to know you are "conscious"! That's a start.

- Art

I think that anyone with a radical message goes against big odds, but with so many attempts, some of them make it big.

It's like starting a small business. Statistically, the odds are against you, but then again, some times a good idea turns into a 300,000+ employee company like General Electric.

So, most preachers are rather nameless and unknown. There are many preachers at my college campus, and I don't know any of their names. Others make it big, and some begin entirely new religions.


When you say you are not interested in preachers, I'm confused. As a Bahai, you believe Baha'u'lla, Muhammad and Jesus and others were messengers of God, right? Were they not preachers, and did they not tell their followers to preach?

-Lyn

 

[Wicked Willow]

The odds against becoming billionaires, superstars or successful founders of a world religion are quite high - but that doesn't mean that it won't happen. It just means that most people trying to achieve it will fail.