Defunding Planned Parenthood

MikeK · Aug 4, 2015

ebia said:
Everytime you over-egg the pudding, you turn people away. The truth doesn't need lies or misinformation.

Everytime someone says "planned parenthood are stealing baby's tissues and selling them", when the truth turns out to be that they'd had consent and they were only reimbursed the costs, you convince people that your cause is wrong. Everytime you talk about defunding PP, instead of talking about moving the funding to other organisations, you convince people your cause is wrong.

It is that simple. Planned Parenthood is an evil organization that provides abortions and should not recieve government funding. That doesn't make it okay for us to lie about them. The truth is bad enough. The pro-life movement is seen as a bunch of whacko nut jobs not because "the media" or "the left" portray them as dishonest and overly-emotional, but because too many in our camp behave that way. There exist pro-life people who really want to save lives that dedicate their time and money to stopping abortions, and these people are succesful. They adopt children from mothers who are considering abortions, they open their homes to foster children, they work at crisis pregnancy centers, they participate in KoC life drives and so on. There are also people who know that they are called to be pro-life but also know that they are too lazy to get involved, so they make a show of noisemaking which is frequently over-the-top and counterproductive. It doesn't help anything, but it balms their conscience and allows them them to immagine that they aren't part of the problem.

PapaZoom · Aug 4, 2015

Burghman said:
Politicizing an organization like Planned Parenthood strictly on the basis of their providing abortions is short sighted. Planned Parenthood provides many gynecological services to women, who otherwise would not have access. Pap smears to rule out cervical cancers, and breast exams to rule out breast cancer. Pelvic exams to rule out a myriad of conditions that could prevent pregnancy. This going "ballistic" every time Planned Parenthood is mentioned, shows how ill informed some ideologues are.

Because they do some good people should ignore the abortion side and the clear evidence of selling and harvesting fetal body parts?

PapaZoom · Aug 4, 2015

ebia said:
Everytime you over-egg the pudding, you turn people away. The truth doesn't need lies or misinformation.

Everytime someone says "planned parenthood are stealing baby's tissues and selling them", when the truth turns out to be that they'd had consent and they were only reimbursed the costs, you convince people that your cause is wrong. Everytime you talk about defunding PP, instead of talking about moving the funding to other organisations, you convince people your cause is wrong.

I would gladly fund PP if they didn't do abortions and provided women with all the information they need to make informed decisions (like ultrasounds which shows the baby and most women will change their minds with that info). There isn't a single non-abortion service that a woman can't get elsewhere.

MikeK · Aug 4, 2015

PapaZoom said:
Because they do some good people should ignore the abortion side and the clear evidence of selling and harvesting fetal body parts?

I don't think that's what is being said at all. We should always tell the whole truth. They perform services that are gravely evil and they also do some things that are very good. The good they do does not mitigate or excuse the evil, but we harm our movement when we refuse to aknowledge the good that PP does while we hammer on their evils. It makes it very easy for the pro-choice side to turn the discussion into a binary mesage of us vs them, and label us as the dishonest bad guys.

MikeK · Aug 4, 2015

PapaZoom said:
I would gladly fund PP if they didn't do abortions and provided women with all the information they need to make informed decisions (like ultrasounds which shows the baby and most women will change their minds with that info).

If they didn't perform abortions I would support their cause. As they do perform abortions I cannot support them. I favor a carrot-and-stick approach. Funding should be provided at an exceptionally higher rate than it was previously so that many more women can be helped, but on the condition that PP no longer performs abortions, or perhaps only performs them under rare, explicitly defined circumstances. If PP refuses this olive branch, they demonstrate that they are not interested in helping women to the extent possible. In the very unlikely event that they do accept it, we see a dramatic reduction in abortions and more women recieve the care that they need.

PapaZoom · Aug 4, 2015

MikeK said:
I don't think that's what is being said at all. We should always tell the whole truth. They perform services that are gravely evil and they also do some things that are very good. The good they do does not mitigate or excuse the evil, but we harm our movement when we refuse to aknowledge the good that PP does while we hammer on their evils. It makes it very easy for the pro-choice side to turn the discussion into a binary mesage of us vs them, and label us as the dishonest bad guys.

It's hard to get past the part where a PP doctor explains how they can alter the abortion procedure (a felony) to get a fully intact fetal cadaver. PP doc: “If we alter our process, and we are able to obtain intact fetal cadavers, we can make it part of the budget that any dissections are this, and splitting the specimens into different shipments is this. It’s all just a matter of line items.”

So the unborn are just line items on a budget. Nice.

I don't care what good they are doing. The evil they do overrides any other consideration IMO. It's like saying that the Nazis may have tortured some Jews in experiments but they also did a lot of good (like their work in understanding hypothermia).

PapaZoom · Aug 4, 2015

MikeK said:
If they didn't perform abortions I would support their cause. As they do perform abortions I cannot support them. I favor a carrot-and-stick approach. Funding should be provided at an exceptionally higher rate than it was previously so that many more women can be helped, but on the condition that PP no longer performs abortions, or perhaps only performs them under rare, explicitly defined circumstances. If PP refuses this olive branch, they demonstrate that they are not interested in helping women to the extent possible. In the very unlikely event that they do accept it, we see a dramatic reduction in abortions and more women recieve the care that they need.

I do agree that women who are pregnant should get all the proper care they need and if the woman can't pay for it, I'm all for helping with the costs. As long as abortion isn't part of the package.

brewmama · Aug 4, 2015

MikeK said:
I don't think our politicians' salaries are unjust. Their incomes are in line with succesful Doctors and Lawyers and they are pid well, but not obnoxiously well.

Why did you elect to quote a biased source which doesn't even address the statement you're responding to? Most PP centers are not set up to provide abortions, that procedure is performed in a minority of PP offices. Further, your source chides PP for not providing mammograms but fails to aknowledge that PP does refer women to programs which provide funding for mammograms, and that PP does perform paps and cervical cancer screening in house and often at no charge. PP is evil and shouldn't be funded by our tax dollars, but the public doesn't fully trust the pro-life movement because of dishonest snakes like those who compiled the list you linked to that tell half truths in hopes of soliciting an emotional but uninformed response. Out pro-life movement would be more effective if we lured the liars, half-trut hers and hyper-partisans from our ranks.

You give no contradictory information, and yet deny an outright claim that all PP affiliates must provide abortions by a certain date. Why do you say it is false?! What do you have against the Susan B. Anthony List? Why do you say I wan't responding to a particular statement when I clearly was?

LivingWordUnity · Aug 4, 2015

The two sides of this are speaking different languages. The Pro-Abortion side speaks the convoluted language of relativism while the Pro-Life side speaks the simple language of objective truth.

SolomonVII · Aug 4, 2015

Planned Parenthood performs one third of all abortions in America.
That is a whole lot of potential spare body parts being generated by the ghouls.

Any other service that Planned Parenthood provides is also provided by other organizations that do not profit from killing babies.

The moral choice is clear enough.

De-fund Planned Parenthood.

PapaZoom · Aug 4, 2015

SolomonVII said:
Planned Parenthood performs one third of all abortions in America.
That is a whole lot of potential spare body parts being generated by the ghouls.

Any other service that Planned Parenthood provides is also provided by other organizations that do not profit from killing babies.
The moral choice is clear enough.
De-fund Planned Parenthood.

According to life news: 40 percent of all reported abortions committed in the United States occur at a Planned Parenthoodclinic, making it by far the largest abortion provider in America. (Editor’s note: When using the national abortion numbers from the Guttmacher Institute, Planned Parenthood does 27.5 percent of all abortions in the United States,)http://www.lifenews.com/2012/09/05/media-hides-fact-planned-parenthood-does-40-of-abortions/

Even at 35% of US abortions done at PP that is approx 1225 abortions per day.

brewmama · Aug 4, 2015

Burghman said:
Politicizing an organization like Planned Parenthood strictly on the basis of their providing abortions is short sighted. Planned Parenthood provides many gynecological services to women, who otherwise would not have access. Pap smears to rule out cervical cancers, and breast exams to rule out breast cancer. Pelvic exams to rule out a myriad of conditions that could prevent pregnancy. This going "ballistic" every time Planned Parenthood is mentioned, shows how ill informed some ideologues are.

They certainly would have access, as has already been pointed out. The money could go to all the present low cost clinics that provide more care than PP ever has.

brewmama · Aug 4, 2015

ebia said:
And? People get paid for doing their job.

And? As a not for profit the only thing they can do with that excess is to plough it back into services.

And they certainly don't need our tax dollars with all that profit, now do they?

ebia · Aug 4, 2015

SolomonVII said:
Planned Parenthood performs one third of all abortions in America.
That is a whole lot of potential spare body parts being generated by the ghouls.

Any other service that Planned Parenthood provides is also provided by other organizations that do not profit from killing babies.

The moral choice is clear enough.

De-fund Planned Parenthood.

All all of those services available through high quality service providers to everyone everywhere? With sufficient capacity to pick up the workload?

MikeK · Aug 4, 2015

brewmama said:
You give no contradictory information, and yet deny an outright claim that all PP affiliates must provide abortions by a certain date. Why do you say it is false?! What do you have against the Susan B. Anthony List? Why do you say I wan't responding to a particular statement when I clearly was?

I said what I said because it is absolutely true. Your comment did not address whether most PP offices offer abortion services. I will offer you no sources to heckle, I will rather challenge you to be such a decent human being as to spend 3 minutes learning for yourself. Call the 5 Planned Parenthood offices nearest you and ask if they perform abortions on site. Go ahead.

ebia · Aug 4, 2015

brewmama said:
They certainly would have access, as has already been pointed out. The money could go to all the present low cost clinics that provide more care than PP ever has.

Then why not phrase it that way from the outset and throughout?

brewmama · Aug 4, 2015

ebia said:
All all of those services available through high quality service providers to everyone everywhere? With sufficient capacity to pick up the workload?

Yes. You do realize what a total lie the "lack of health care" has been?

ebia · Aug 4, 2015

brewmama said:
And they certainly don't need our tax dollars with all that profit, now do they?

Those tax dollars provide certain services and presumably are tied to those services in an audited manner. In which case I presume they'd cut those services if you remove the funding.

ebia · Aug 4, 2015

brewmama said:
Yes. You do realize what a total lie the "lack of health care" has been?

So there's thousands of councellors etc sitting around being paid in all those other providers, with no work to do? Who the heck is funding that?

brewmama · Aug 4, 2015

MikeK said:
I said what I said because it is absolutely true. Your comment did not address whether most PP offices offer abortion services. I will offer you no sources to heckle, I will rather challenge you to be such a decent human being as to spend 3 minutes learning for yourself. Call the 5 Planned Parenthood offices nearest you and ask if they perform abortions on site. Go ahead.

The one in my town certainly does. When you look online...

http://plannedparenthood.org/health-center/

We have more than 700 health centers across the country. - See more at: http://plannedparenthood.org/health-center/#sthash.qlzdw0e9.dpuf
Care. No matter where.

Services Offered:

Abortion

Defunding Planned Parenthood

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