Definition of "design"?

[MoonLancer]

Design as in things are impossible by chance, therefore they must have at least been 'intelligently guided' at one end of the definition of ID, or 'made' at the other.

I disagree. Creatures are designed through a unique process of evolution and natural selection and does not require an intelligently guided force.

 

[Meshach]

I disagree. Creatures are designed through a unique process of evolution and natural selection and does not require an intelligently guided force.

Of course you dont think intelligence is needed, you have mindless, accidental evolution doing it all.

 

[laconicstudent]

Of course you dont think intelligence is needed, you have mindless, accidental evolution doing it all.

(emphasis mine)

Wrong. Evolution is driven by natural selection which promotes propagation of mutations that confer an advantage. This is high school biology.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

Of course you dont think intelligence is needed, you have mindless, accidental evolution doing it all.

Yet, here you are. From simple to complex, built from the bottom up. Evolution!

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

Yep, natural selection is the exact opposite of random.

 

[laconicstudent]

Yep, natural selection is the exact opposite of random.

Thank you. Do you suppose if we keep on telling Meshach that for another page or two it will get through to him that his straw man misrepresentation of Evolutionary Theory is patently obvious?

 

[Meshach]

(emphasis mine)

Wrong. Evolution is driven by natural selection which promotes propagation of mutations that confer an advantage. This is high school biology.

So its not mindless, or accidental? Natural selection has a mind? Thats what I have been saying, its your god, natural selection is. Naturally it would have a mind if its your god. Is that what your saying? I said it was mindless and you said I was wrong. Where does it get its information? How did it know there were sounds we needed to hear so it gave us ears?

 

[Meshach]

Yet, here you are. From simple to complex, built from the bottom up. Evolution!

From simple to complex, like the trilobite eyes?

 

[laconicstudent]

So its not mindless, or accidental? Natural selection has a mind?

No. The options are not Random vs "has a mind". Gravity isn't "random" but it certainly doesn't have a mind. Somehow, I don't think your even trying to understand.

Thats what I have been saying, its your god, natural selection is. Naturally it would have a mind if its your god.

And the opinion of scientists would be that anyone supposing natural selection "has a mind" would be a complete and utter lunatic.

Is that what your saying?

No. Frankly, your straw men need more work. They are painfully obvious. Please try harder.

I said it was mindless and you said I was wrong.

No. You said it was "random, accidental" and I said you were wrong. I thought it was obvious that I was responding to your claim that it was random, since only a complete lunatic would think that natural selection has a mind.

Where does it get its information? How did it know there were sounds we needed to hear so it gave us ears?

 

[MoonLancer]

So its not mindless, or accidental? Natural selection has a mind? Thats what I have been saying, its your god, natural selection is. Naturally it would have a mind if its your god. Is that what your saying? I said it was mindless and you said I was wrong. Where does it get its information? How did it know there were sounds we needed to hear so it gave us ears?

Mindless yes, Accidental, no.

Choose your words wisely because at the moment you are not. You are using dishonest methods of argument and they are riddled with fallacies.


fallacy of equivocation, straw-man, and false dichotomy. I wonder if there are more buried in your *paragraph.

 

[catzrfluffy]

To all. If God did not play a part in natural processes, just keep going back and back - how do you explain how it happened? Bearing in mind this is just your "explanation".

 

[plindboe]

To all. If God did not play a part in natural processes, just keep going back and back - how do you explain how it happened? Bearing in mind this is just your "explanation".

I don't. Going back far enough no one truly knows. That includes you. When people claim to know the ultimate unanswerable questions, I can only attribute it to arrogance combined with a lack of critical thinking.

Making up explanations to fill up gaps in our understanding takes us no where. Have the courage to shrug your shoulders and utter the words "I don't know".

Peter

 

[catzrfluffy]

I don't. Going back far enough no one truly knows. That includes you. When people claim to know the ultimate unanswerable questions, I can only attribute it to arrogance combined with a lack of critical thinking.

Making up explanations to fill up gaps in our understanding takes us no where. Have the courage to shrug your shoulders and utter the words "I don't know".

Peter

it's not arrogance, one can't be arrogant about someone else, or truth that isn't one's own. to that I would say, why not have the courage to look beyond the corporeal?

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

Look to what, exactly? You don't know. You only think you know. If looking "beyond the corporeal" were so obviously apparent, why do you think there have been thousands, of different religions/belief systems/superstitions/myths etc?

 

[catzrfluffy]

Many accept an 'unknown God'.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

Many accept an 'unknown God'.

Yes, exactly, a god for that which is unknown. I think maybe you're starting to understand. There are those who "plug in" to their own personal beliefs as an attempt to assuage fears and doubts of the unknown (as evidenced by all myths/religions having explanations for the afterlife!).

As mentioned earlier, it takes much courage to declare, "I don't know."

 

[Loudmouth]

Of course you dont think intelligence is needed, you have mindless, accidental evolution doing it all.

If you want to claim that an intelligence is involved then please evidence it. If you can't bring evidence to bear then withdraw the claim. It's really that simple.

Also, evolution is not accidental. Accident implies intent. There is no intent here. Evolution is a stochastic process, a combination of random and deterministic mechanisms. For example, nuclear decay is stochastic in nature. Atoms decay at random. There is no way to predict which atom will decay next. However, once an atom does decay the results of that decay are determined by the laws of physics. So atomic decay is a random and deterministic process, a stochastic process. Evolution is the same. No one can predict which base in a genome will mutate next. However, relative fitness determines whether or not that mutation will become less prevalent or more prevalent in the population. It is a stochastic process.

If you reject evolution because it is a stochastic process then you must also reject almost every natural process that we know of.

 

[Loudmouth]

it's not arrogance, one can't be arrogant about someone else, or truth that isn't one's own.

One can be arrogant in claiming that they know which religion is the truth while all others are false.

why not have the courage to look beyond the corporeal?

Does it take courage to believe in Santa Claus?

 

[DrkSdBls]

Does it take courage to believe in Santa Claus?

It takes Courage to CLAIM that you do.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

to that I would say, why not have the courage to look beyond the corporeal?

What does that mean, "look beyond the corporeal"? How does one actually do that?