Defining Christianity

Sojourner1 said:

The Nicene Creed (with scriptural references)

Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1:2)

Light of Light; (Psalm 27:1; John 8:12; Matthew 17:2,5)

True God of True God; (John 17:1-5)

Begotten, not made; (John 1:18)

of one essence with the Father (John 10:30)

by whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1:1-2)

Who for us men and for our salvation (1Timothy 2:4-5)

came down from Heaven, (John 6:33,35)

and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, (Luke 1:35)

and became man. (John 1:14)

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John 1: 2

1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2. The same was in the beginning with God.

3. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Here we have some great information about God at the time of the creation. No mention of having to believe this to either be a Christian or to be saved.


Psalm 27: 1

1. The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the Lord is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?

Very inspirational. When a person is on the side of God then there is nothing to fear. No mention of this affecting salvation or your status as a Christian.


Matthew 17: 2, 5

1. And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

2. And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

3. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

4. Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

5. While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

Works against the Nicene notion of the Trinity, but that is a different topic. No mention of this affecting salvation or your status as a Christian. What does "True God of True God" even mean?


John 1: 18

18. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Another verse that works against the notion of Trinity (different topic). Again, no mention of this affecting salvation or your status as a Christian.


John 10: 30

29. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.

30. I and my Father are one.

Another verse that works against the notion of Trinity (different topic). Again, no mention of this affecting salvation or your status as a Christian.


Hebrews 1: 1-2

1. God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2. Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

No mention of this affecting salvation or your status as a Christian.


1 Timothy 2: 4-5

4. Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

5. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Another verse that works against the notion of Trinity (different topic). No mention of this affecting salvation or your status as a Christian.


John 6: 33, 35

33. For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

34. Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.

35. And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Because we have other verses which explain that salvation is dependent on belief is Christ I will accept this as further support of that. A very positive message in my mind, but not one that defines a person's status as a Christian. Essential doctrine = yes. Proof of Christian status = no.


Luke 1: 35

35. And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

No mention in these verses of this affecting salvation or your status as a Christian.


John 1: 14

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Again, no mention in this verse of it affecting salvation or your status as a Christian.


What I am finding is that the Nicene Creed is really just a statement of this-is-what-we-believe. And a great deal of it has already been filtered through human interpretation so that we are getting the information with a built-in bias.

I have been busy lately, but I do plan to go through the rest of the Nicene Creed to look for anything that defines what or who is a Christian as well as search for any doctrines essential for salvation. So far the Christian participants have been unable to provide much on this matter.

Sojourner1 said:

The Nicene Creed (with scriptural references)

And was crucified for us (Mark 15:25; 1Cointhians 15:3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19:6)
and suffered, (Mark 8:31)
and was buried. (Luke 23:53; 1Corinthians 15:4)
And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures. (Luke 24:1 1Corinthians 15:4)

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Mark 15: 25

25. And it was the third hour, and they crucified him.

An important event, but it does not define what and who is a Christian or explains a necessary doctrine for salvation.


1 Corinthians 15: 3

3. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

A joyous truth to be sure, but once again it does not define what and who is a Christian or explain any doctrine necessary for salvation.


John 19: 6

6. When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him.

Same comment as above.


Mark 8: 31

31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.

Same comment as above.


Luke 23: 53

53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.

Same comment as above.


1 Corinthians 15: 4

4. And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

While it doesn't specifically mention here that this is a doctrine necessary for salvation, previously discussed verses have made that distinction. It does not define what or who is a Christian, but is essential to our salvation.


Luke 24: 1

1. Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.

Same comment as for 1 Corinthians 15: 4.


Another chunk of the Nicene Creed and we are still not finding passages that would allow any group to declare themselves Christian and not others. It also contains few doctrines that are necessary for salvation. I suspect that going through the rest of the Nicene Creed will change either of these findings.

Sojourner1 said:

The Nicene Creed (with scriptural references)
And ascended into Heaven, (Luke 24:51; Acts 1:10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father. (Mark 16:19; Acts 7:55)
And He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24:27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10:42; 2Timothy 4:1)
whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1:11)

And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14:26)
the Lord, (Acts 5:3-4)v
the Giver of Life, (Genesis 1:2)
Who proceeds from the Father; (John 15:26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; (Matthew 3:16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19:20 ; Ezekiel 11:5,13)

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Luke 24: 51

49. And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

50. And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.

51. And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

An important event, but once again not one that defines what and who is a Christian or explains a necessary doctrine for salvation.


Acts 1: 10

10. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

Same comment as above.


Mark 16: 19

19. So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

Same comment as above.


Acts 7: 55

55. But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

Same comment as above.


Matthew 24: 7

5. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8. All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Same comment as above.


Acts 10: 42

42. And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.

I certainly believe that Christians should be involved in preaching that Jesus was ordained of God to be our judge, but it doesn't make any mention of this defining what and who is a Christian or as a doctrine necessary for salvation.


2 Timothy 4: 1

1. I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

Ditto.


2 Peter 1: 11

5. And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

6. And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

7. And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

8. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

10. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

11. For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Ah-ha. I think this could be argued to be doctrine essential to salvation. It describes growth from faith to virtue, from virtue to knowledge, from knowledge to temperance, from temperance to patience, from patience to godliness, from godliness to brotherly kindness, from brotherly kindness to charity. Although it doesn't state that these traits are essential to doctrine it does indicate that gaining them will make a person's calling and election sure. So we are close on this.


John 14: 26

26. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

No definition of what and who is a Christian or explanation of a necessary doctrine for salvation.


Acts 5: 3-4

3. But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

4. Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

Same comment as above.


Genesis 1: 2

2. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Same comment as above.


John 15: 26

26. But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Same comment as above.


Matthew 3: 16-17

16. And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

17. And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.


1 Samuel 19: 20

20. And Saul sent messengers to take David: and when they saw the company of the prophets prophesying, and Samuel standing as appointed over them, the Spirit of God was upon the messengers of Saul, and they also prophesied.

Same comment as above.


Ezekiel 11: 5, 13

5. And the Spirit of the Lord fell upon me, and said unto me, Speak; Thus saith the Lord; Thus have ye said, O house of Israel: for I know the things that come into your mind, every one of them.

13. And it came to pass, when I prophesied, that Pelatiah the son of Benaiah died. Then fell I down upon my face, and cried with a loud voice, and said, Ah Lord God! wilt thou make a full end of the remnant of Israel?


(It's taking a while to get through the Nicene Creed, but once I'm done I can move forward with the actual evidence which has been provided.)

Sojourner1 said:

The Nicene Creed (with scriptural references)

In one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2:5,9)
catholic*, (Mark 16:15)
and apostolic Church. (Acts 2:42; Ephesians 2:19-22)

I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins**. (Ephesians 4:5; Acts 2:38)
I look for the resurrection of the dead, (John 11:24; 1Corinthians 15:12-49; Hebrews 6:2; Revelation 20:5)
and the life of the world to come. (Mark 10:29-30)
AMEN. (Psalm 106:48)

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This is the last batch of scriptures from the Nicene Creed.

Matthew 16: 18

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Not a statement of who or what is Christian and does not indicate that it is a doctrine essential for salvation.


1 Peter 2: 5, 9

5. Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

9. But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Ditto.


Mark 16: 15

15. And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Ditto. However, the following verse mentions a condition of salvation.

16. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


Acts 2: 42

42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

No definition of Christian and no doctrine listed as essential for salvation.


Ephesians 2: 19-22

19. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20. And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21. In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22. In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Ditto.


Ephesians 4: 5

5. One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Doesn't define who or what is Christian nor does it state here that this belief is essential for salvation.


John 11: 24

24. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Ditto.


Mark 10: 29-30

29. And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel’s,

30. But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

Ditto.


Psalms 106: 48

48. Blessed be the Lord God of Israel from everlasting to everlasting: and let all the people say, Amen. Praise ye the Lord.

Ditto.



That's it. I have gone through the Nicene Creed to determine which parts of it contain a definition of who or what is Christian and looked for doctrines essential for salvation. My next post will list all that fit that category and then I plan to exploring an earlier comment in the thread. One that I feel has some merit.

At this point, I have gone through all of the material mentioned during the discussion and have found little that can be used to define what and who is a Christian. Without any such guidelines from the Bible it seems ridiculous to accept anyone's claim that another is not a Christian as anything more than an unsupported personal opinion. However, there were a few reasonable points made as to what defines a Christian and which doctrines are essential to salvation. I will list them again for ease of reference.

Acts 11: 26 gives this on the subject. "And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch." Christians are disciples. However, further study is necessary to determine how the Bible defines a disciple. (I plan to do that next.)


Another way to address this is to look at the word itself in English and the original language. Dictionary dot com defines Christian as:

adjective

1. of, relating to, or derived from Jesus Christ or His teachings: a Christian faith.

2. of, pertaining to, believing in, or belonging to the religion based on the teachings of Jesus Christ : Spain is a Christian country.

3. of or relating to Christians: many Christian deaths in the Crusades.

4. exhibiting a spirit proper to a follower of Jesus Christ; Christlike: She displayed true Christian charity.

5. decent; respectable: They gave him a good Christian burial.

6. human; not brutal; humane: Such behavior isn't Christian.

noun

7. a person who believes in Jesus Christ; adherent of Christianity.

8. a person who exemplifies in his or her life the teachings of Christ : He died like a true Christian.

9. a member of any of certain Protestant churches, as the Disciples of Christ and the Plymouth Brethren.


I notice that many of these (4, 5, 6, 8) indicate a sort of behavior which identifies the person as a Christian rather than a specific set of beliefs.



We can also look to Strong's for an idea of what the word means in the Bible.

According to Strongs the word Acts 11: 26 uses the words Christianos and the Mathentes in this verse. The meanings of these words in Greek are:

Christianos = a Christian, i.e. follower of Christ

Mathentes = a learner, pupil, disciple




The second part of the topic involves the doctrines which are necessary for salvation.

1. The first doctrine that defines what is necessary for salvation states that a person (one) must be born again.

John 3:3

"Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."




2. The second essential doctrine states that those who confess the Lord and believe that God hath risen from the dead will be saved.

Romans 10: 8-10

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


1 John 4: 15

15. Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

17. Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.


John 3: 16

14. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15. That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.



3. The third essenctial doctrine states that only those who do the will of Heavenly Father shall enter the kingdom of God.

(Matthew 7: 21)

21 Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.



If I missed any verses that were discussed that define essential doctrine please let me know. I imagine there are quite a few scriptures which define essential doctrines, but this list is generated from the information I was given in the thread. This sums up the legitimate arguments offered so far as to who and what is a Christian.

A short list based on the previous post. A Christian is:

1. Someone who believes in Christ.
2. Someone who lives according to the teachings of Christ.
3. Someone who follows Christ.
4. Someone who is a pupil of Christ.


A short list of doctrines essential for salvation:

1. A person must be born again.
2. A person must confess Jesus, or confess that He is Lord.
3. A person must do God's will.


Since the only definition of what it means to be a Christian identifies them as "disciples" my next step is to include how the Bible identifies them.

Disciples:

John 13: 35

35. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

1. A person who has love for others.


John 15: 8

8. Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

2. A person who bears much fruit.


Luke 14: 27

27. And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

3. A person who bears the Savior's cross.


Luke 14: 33

33. So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

4. A person who forsakes all he has.


Luke 14: 26

26. If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

5. A person who hates his father, mother, wife, children, brethren, sisters, and his own life.

That's a doozy.