Define Your Terms

[Polycarp1]

This being a forum to debate homosexuality from a Christian perspective, I believe it might be useful to have some working definition of what people mean by the terms they use. I consider this particularly important because I have noticed that a fair amount of disagreement has occurred when people are using the same terms with different connotations.

It's my hope and intent that this not be a polemic thread arguing particular points of view on the morality of homosexuality, though I'm sure there will be some disagreements on terms and usage. If everything works as I hope, this may be a useful thread for the staff to pin for ready reference.

That said, I'd like your answers to the following questions:

1. What specifically is homosexuality?

2. What constitutes being a homosexual?

3. What if anything is "the gay agenda"? (Phrased that way because some have claimed it does not exist.)

4. For purposes of usage in this particular forum, what constitutes being a Christian? (Do not necessarily go by the board's past or present definitions -- what do you mean by the term.)

5. What constitutes a valid marriage? Do you distinguish between different uses of the term, and if so how?

Please feel free to disagree, but if possible let's try to work towards a common meaning we invest the words with.

 

[Lord_Barthok_Soc]

1. Homosexuality is feeling physically, emotionally and psychologically attracted to your own sex, whilst at the same time being generally repulsed by those of the opposite sex. It is the desire to have a romantic relationship with those of your own sex, and the inability to have a complete, honest and wholly fulfilling romantic relationship with those of the opposite sex.

2. A homosexual is someone who experiences 1 on a consistent basis (ie not as a natural part of puberty)

3. Well, my initial response was "huh?" But I suppose it could refer to the belief of some that homosexuals are attempting to undermine all that is good, holy and stable in the world. To influence and taint the minds of the weak, or the innocent children. More extreme opinions may mention things about being in league with the antichrist etc, but I won't go there...

I don't think it would be fair not to mention, if I am to give this definition of "gay agenda", a 3b: "heterosexual/conservative agenda" which would be the perceived desire of those opposed to homosexuality to oppress, torture or 'fix' all homosexuals.

Both are largely baseless accusations used to demonise the opposing side in an argument and proliferate conspiracy theories, designed to hinder reasonable debate and set people people in their views.

4. Someone who professes faith in Christ as their saviour, and leads a life in relationship with God as well as fellow Christians. Who is constantly seeking to better themselves and grow closer to God, resulting in continual change, and consequently evidences the fruits of the spirit.

5. Marriage as a secular tool provides a legal union between two people to assist with various legislations, transference of material possessions upon death etc. and attempts to encourage stability and support for children.

Marriage as a relationship is the (hopefully permanent) commitment of two people before God to share their lives and bodies, support and care for each other, growing closer both to each other and to God.


Good idea for a thread, BTW

 

[BigBadWlf]

1. Homosexuality is the enduring physical, emotional, romantic and psychological attraction to members of ones own gender to the exclusion of physical, emotional, romantic and psychological attraction with members of the opposite gender. This may or may not include sexual behavior.


2. A homosexual is someone who experiences 1 on a consistent basis and slef identifies as homosexual.

3. the homosexual agenda is a myth

4. I prefer the more simple, a Christian is a member of one of the many Christian religions.

5. Marriage as a secular arrangement made by two people to form a legal union between two people to assist with various legislations, transference of material possessions upon death etc. and attempts to encourage stability and support of the family.

 

[BreadAlone]

1. What specifically is homosexuality?

Sexual behavior between people of the same gender.

2. What constitutes being a homosexual?

Someone who engages on a continuing basis (not once five years ago but is now straight) in homosexuality.

3. What if anything is "the gay agenda"? (Phrased that way because some have claimed it does not exist.)

I always assumed it was all part of that "gay rights activist" stuff.

4. For purposes of usage in this particular forum, what constitutes being a Christian? (Do not necessarily go by the board's past or present definitions -- what do you mean by the term.)

Someone who relies on the faith given to them by the Holy Spirit in the substitutional work of Christ for the forgiveness of their sins and their subsequent salvation.

5. What constitutes a valid marriage? Do you distinguish between different uses of the term, and if so how?

Marriage is an act instituted by God that unites ONE man and ONE woman as ONE flesh.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

1. What specifically is homosexuality?

same-sex sexual actions.

2. What constitutes being a homosexual?

a person who identifies themselves as only sexually interested in the same sex.

3. What if anything is "the gay agenda"? (Phrased that way because some have claimed it does not exist.)

It's real. But every group of people have agendas. The gay agenda can be anything from rallying to abolish sexual discrimination, to allowing equal rights. (although the definition of "equal" rights is hotly debated)

4. For purposes of usage in this particular forum, what constitutes being a Christian? (Do not necessarily go by the board's past or present definitions -- what do you mean by the term.)

At the very least, a Christian is a follower of Christ. Since the term "Christ" means messiah/deliverer, they must believe that Christ is the messiah or that He delivers them in some way. If that is not the case, then they follow Jesus as a teacher/man.

Now where it gets complicated. The statement that one follows Christ and then says that the bible is not God inspired is contradictory. The reason is because without the bible, little, if anything, would be known about Him. Not only that, He Himself states the importance of the scripture, and its veracity.

5. What constitutes a valid marriage? Do you distinguish between different uses of the term, and if so how?

secular marriage is nothing more than a legal contract between 2 consenting parties.

The definition of biblical marriage obviously changes throughout biblical history, as in less civilized times it was more of a custom or arrangement in which the woman (and sometimes man) did not have a say in it at all. As civilization progressed, marriage evolved into more of a show of binding commitment between a man and woman.

 

[Lord_Barthok_Soc]

I guess we have a disagreement on what homosexuality is...

And marriage too, for that matter.

 

[artybloke]

1. Homosexuality is the attraction to members of your own gender. Often exclusively, but not always so (though that would be bi-sexuality I guess.) I personally think we're all a little bit bi.

2. Someone who is attracted to members of their own gender.

3. To dress the world better? To choose more tasteful drapes? To make everyone listen to Barbara Streisand?

4. Someone who follows Christ.

5. An institution. And who wants to live in an institution?

 

[catlover]

3. To dress the world better? To choose more tasteful drapes? To make everyone listen to Barbara Streisand?

Thank-you, Arty for the laugh.

 

[BAFRIEND]

Homosexual is a person who is sexually attracted to members of the same sex. There can be many reasons for it, not all reasons are the fault or within the choosing of the person. Homosexuality is an orientation.

Gay is a lifestyle choice that someone leads when they partake activities that constitute having homosexual sex.

Because the Bible itself states that homosexual offenders will not inherit the kingdom then the orientation itself is objectively immoral because it gives the individual the desire to sin against God.

The gay agenda is the participation of groups or individuals to inject a social acceptance for those who partake in the gay lifestyle.

Gay/homosexual marriage IMO is a contradiction in terms and mere fantasy as marriage is a sacrament that can only be sealed by God in heaven. As Jesus himself affirms the religious legality of marriage and both Jesus and the OT define again and again marraige between a man and a woman there is no marriage between same sex partners regardless of laws or ceremony if it is not sealed by God.

 

[OllieFranz]

Homosexual is a person who is sexually attracted to members of the same sex. There can be many reasons for it, not all reasons are the fault or within the choosing of the person. Homosexuality is an orientation.

Gay is a lifestyle choice that someone leads when they partake activities that constitute having homosexual sex.

That's odd. On those rare occassions when I have reason to make a distinction between "gay" and "homosexual" I go the opposite way. I think of it as: you are born "gay," but you engage in "homosexual" acts. As many posters here claim that the orientation is inborn, but the actions are sinful, this seems to be a useful distinction, especialy since it would allow all of those on the one side to agree that "homosexuality" (defined as engaging in homosexual activity) is sinful.

 

[David Brider]

This being a forum to debate homosexuality from a Christian perspective, I believe it might be useful to have some working definition of what people mean by the terms they use. I consider this particularly important because I have noticed that a fair amount of disagreement has occurred when people are using the same terms with different connotations.

It's my hope and intent that this not be a polemic thread arguing particular points of view on the morality of homosexuality, though I'm sure there will be some disagreements on terms and usage. If everything works as I hope, this may be a useful thread for the staff to pin for ready reference.

That said, I'd like your answers to the following questions:

1. What specifically is homosexuality?

Attraction (physical, sexual, emotional, romantic, spiritual, intellectual) between people of the same gender.

2. What constitutes being a homosexual?

Being attracted (physically, sexually, emotionally, romantically, spiritually, intellectually) to people of the same gender as oneself.

3. What if anything is "the gay agenda"? (Phrased that way because some have claimed it does not exist.)

I'm not sure that there is one in the sense that its more vociferous critics like to suggest (which seems to be that homosexuals are out to convert their children and bring down conservative society), but most homosexual people whom I know just want to live their lives without being the targets of homophobia, and ideally to have the same rights as heterosexuals (particularly in terms of protection from harassment, workplace rights, and marriage).

4. For purposes of usage in this particular forum, what constitutes being a Christian? (Do not necessarily go by the board's past or present definitions -- what do you mean by the term.)

What I mean by a Christian is someone who's repented of their sin before almighty God, has accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour, and above all is living their lives to the best of the ability, and with the assistance of the Holy Spirit, as a disciple of Jesus Christ.

5. What constitutes a valid marriage? Do you distinguish between different uses of the term, and if so how?

Well, marriage is a covenant relationship between two people who have reached a point where they feel that it would be right for them to spend the rest of their natural lives together and have entered into a formalisation of that decision - whether it be in terms of some sort of religious service (Christian or otherwise) or a civil service or both.

As regards what makes any given marriage "valid", I wouldn't like to say - the implication being that some marriages may be "invalid", and I'm not sure that's my call, really. As long as a marriage is recognised by the community in which one lives, I'm pretty sure it's okay.

David.

 

[BAFRIEND]

/olliefranz/
That's odd. On those rare occassions when I have reason to make a distinction between "gay" and "homosexual" I go the opposite way.

From Dictionary.com

/gay/
6.of, indicating, or supporting homosexual interests or issues: a gay organization.
–noun
7.a homosexual person, esp. a male.

/homosexual/
1.of, pertaining to, or exhibiting homosexuality.
2.of, pertaining to, or noting the same sex.
–noun
3.a homosexual person.

 

[OllieFranz]

As far as the OP questions:

1) Allowing for the distinction made above, the orientation is inborn and includes a lot more than just sexual attraction. Gay children know that they are different long before puberty and sexual awakening.

The "lifestyle" as such does not exist. However, because gays have been marginalized, there have evoved sub-cultures which are primarily gay, just as there have developed sub-cultures for other marginalized peoples. Such a sub-culture does not define the "homosexual lifestyle" any more than Hip-Hop or Gangsta define the "Black lifestyle."

2) A gay person is simply someone who was born with a gay orientation. Normally I consider a "homosexual" the same as a gay person, but in discussions about whether a homosexual is an unrepentant sinner, I adjust the definition to a "sexually active gay person."

When someone seems to be making certain blanket accusations about gays or homosexuals, I usually try to get them to focus on whether they mean to refer to sexually promiscuous persons, rather than gays. Once in a while, I am even successful in that attempt.

3) It is like the "Black agenda" and the "feminist agenda" of the sixties and seventies: the reports of an over-arching "agenda" are a panicked "conspiracy theory" counter-reaction to several small but needed movements to claim dignity and legal rights guaranteed by the Constitution.

4 & 5) There are so many definitions that I usually try to determine the other person's defintion first, and either argue on that level, or try to lead them to a more inclusive definition.

 

[David Brider]

That's odd. On those rare occassions when I have reason to make a distinction between "gay" and "homosexual" I go the opposite way. I think of it as: you are born "gay," but you engage in "homosexual" acts. As many posters here claim that the orientation is inborn, but the actions are sinful, this seems to be a useful distinction, especialy since it would allow all of those on the one side to agree that "homosexuality" (defined as engaging in homosexual activity) is sinful.

I think that's one of my problems with some of these discussions, though - to most LGBTQ&F people (or at least the ones I've met and discoursed with online, as well as those whose writings I've read), "homosexuality" refers not to homosexual activity but to homosexual attraction.

I'd suggest, then, that a more helpful distinction of terms would be that "homosexuality" be confined strictly to speaking of attraction; someone who has homosexual attraction be described of as "homosexual" or "gay"*; and "homosexual activity" be used to desribe, well, homosexual activity.

David.

*Well, it's not quite that straightforward - "gay" tends to be used to refer to male homosexuals. Obviously, "lesbian" is used to refer to female homosexuals. And then, of course, there's bisexuals. And transgendered folks.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

Reps to you, Polycarp1, for this thread. In little more than a dozen posts, we already discover a widely diverse take on all your points.

And I would like to add one more question, as pertains to the new rules:

What does the "Christian perspective" mean?
For me and many others who are Christian, our perspective is that God is still revealing truth; God made some of us gay; and God blesses us in faithful relationships.

This is my Christian perspective, and it's different from the perspective of some other Christians, but it's still firmly, deeply, and undeniably a Christian perspective.

 

[Phinehas2]

Homosexuality is usually defined as same-sex attraction desires and/or same-sex attraction/lifestyle.
Christian is defined as faith in Jesus Christ to One God Father Son and Holy Spirit.
Having faith in Jesus Christ is following Him as the only way to the Father God, and that includes His forgiveness and salvation from sin and death to eternal life.
Homosexual is therefore partly neither here nor there, its the same as any other desire/lifestyle that is either in line with God's purposes or not. People may have homosexual desires but same-sex sex is a sin. People may have heterosexual desires but adultery is a sin.