Discussion Defending self and others.

Always in His Presence · May 26, 2015

Simply Put said:
This is perhaps the greatest statement of ignorance I have ever heard in my life.

So let me qualify my statement above before someone attempts to have me evicerated.

its tantamount to my saying that people do not carry a weapon do not because in their hearts they are craven cowards. They hide behind their faith because they are scarf to do otherwise.

Both statements are made from a position of ignorance. iOW I don't know what is in another's heart.

Alithis · May 26, 2015

Simply Put said:
This is perhaps the greatest statement of ignorance I have ever heard in my life.

some get quite irate when heart motives are brought into the topic ..iv often observed that reaction .it is almost predictable, up rises the flesh with hairs bristling lol.aah well .that's for each to deal with in their own hearts before God .

Alithis · May 26, 2015

Simply Put said:
So let me qualify my statement above before someone attempts to have me evicerated.

its tantamount to my saying that people do not carry a weapon do not because in their hearts they are craven cowards. They hide behind their faith because they are scarf to do otherwise.

Both statements are made from a position of ignorance. iOW I don't know what is in another's heart.

except you see, i did not say "that is what is the motive of everyone's heart is . but that the expressed opinions of "SOME "causes the hearts motive to be made manifest .

you see the lords word says that it is" from the abundance of the heart that the mouth speaks", what fills the heart is what overflows from the lips .. and some have very clearly shown what their heart is filed with by what they speak out . they say "shoot and kill the perpetrator .. thus showing openly that their heart is swift to run towards violence . its not rocket science .

don't misrepresent my words and generalize my statement to drag everyone into it when it was not referring to "everyone " but only those who have clearly said (spoken ) what they have said .

Alithis · May 26, 2015

brinny said:
What you posted is from these verses (Romans 3:13-18)?:

"Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes."~Romans 3:13-18

These verses are describing the one seeking to shed innocent blood and planning the hurt and/or demise of an unsuspecting victim. It's "predatory" in nature. It's not describing someone "reacting" to the one seeking to shed innocent blood, which God abhors, as is stated all throughout His Word.

Just for clarification, was Jesus demonstrating "wrath"?

Thank you kindly.

yes it was from that text and yes the lord Jesus demonstrated wrath -interestingly without killing or maiming any one - also his action were just and righteous from a sinless and pure heart and his desire was that all be saved -no mater what they have done .. as thus our hearts , filled with him ,with His holy Spirit enthroned in them ,should
reflect the same desire as his . it is what living in the holy Spirit is all about . you see i'm not trying to say any one is right or wrong in any action . but only that we should be ever seeking to do the will of God in all things to love in all things and if that means laying down our lives then so be it God will give us grace also to do so in the time of need .

Alithis · May 26, 2015

Aldebaran said:
That has a limited effect. There were teachers in Sandy Hook elementary school who tried to shield students from gunfire by using their own body as a shield. It got themselves killed, and then the students they were shielding were killed as well. But then again, they didn't have options. The bad guy had a gun, and was able to kill, while the teachers and students had nothing to defend themselves with. So what did they do? They called the police and waited. Think about it for a minute. Why did they call the police? Could it possibly be because the police had guns, and would use them to stop the attacker? Were the teachers wrong for calling the police then?

this is a little self contradictory .. as you say, either way got them killed . those teachers who shielded the children laid down their live in the attempt ,that is of the highest commendation .
as i said before ..this life is temporary and Chrisitians who are supposed to believe that ,need to start living out the course and days of their life with that in mind -
it is appointed unto all men once to die .

brinny · May 26, 2015

Alithis said:
yes it was from that text and yes the lord Jesus demonstrated wrath -interestingly without killing or maiming any one - also his action were just and righteous from a sinless and pure heart and his desire was that all be saved -no mater what they have done .. as thus our hearts , filled with him ,with His holy Spirit enthroned in them ,should
reflect the same desire as his . it is what living in the holy Spirit is all about . you see i'm not trying to say any one is right or wrong in any action . but only that we should be ever seeking to do the will of God in all things to love in all things and if that means laying down our lives then so be it God will give us grace also to do so in the time of need .

Wrath, as you stated is not sinful, simply because it is wrath. As such there is a righteous wrath that stems from a Holy God, and was also demonstrated through His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ. God's wrath has been evident in the past, and is the same wrath that His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ demonstrated. God does not *wink* at wickedness, nor does He allow those seeking to shed innocent blood, go unpunished. God is perfectly just, and just as He enabled David to boldly approach Goliath (who had the entire king's army hiding and quaking in their armor), and told him that he was going to slay him in the name of, and for the sake of the God of Israel, and then did, and then cut off the giant's head, God has rose up other mighty men of valor throughout history.

They do not back down from evil, but put a stop to it, and at the unction of a holy and a just and righteous God, Who loathes the evil that is behind the plotting of doing harm to an unsuspecting victim. It's all throughout God's Word.

We are to take a stand against evil and speak out for and defend those who cannot speak out for or defend themselves.

It is not a sin to take a stand against evil and to put a stop to it. It is righteous and valiant thing to do. To stand by and allow evil is akin to bowing to evil and becoming a pawn in its effort to cause harm and the demise of innocent parties.

To stand by and allow evil is a sin.

Thank you kindly.

"It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." ~Hebrews 10:31

Always in His Presence · May 26, 2015

Alithis said:
some get quite irate when heart motives are brought into the topic ..iv often observed that reaction .it is almost predictable, up rises the flesh with hairs bristling lol.aah well .that's for each to deal with in their own hearts before God .

Now that made me laugh

Always in His Presence · May 26, 2015

brinny said:
They do not back down from evil, but put a stop to it, and at the unction of a holy and a just and righteous God, Who loathes the evil that is behind the plotting of doing harm to an unsuspecting victim. It's all throughout God's Word.

Amen!

When ones belief force scriptural realities to be ignored you know you are on shakes ground. It's when you leave the scripture that one has to digress to assuming they know what motives are in the hearts of Spirit Led Christians they have never met and don't know.

Alithis · May 26, 2015

brinny said:
Wrath, as you stated is not sinful, simply because it is wrath. As such there is a righteous wrath that stems from a Holy God, and was also demonstrated through His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ. God's wrath has been evident in the past, and is the same wrath that His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ demonstrated. God does not *wink* at wickedness, nor does He allow those seeking to shed innocent blood, go unpunished. God is perfectly just, and just as He enabled David to boldly approach Goliath (who had the entire king's army hiding and quaking in their armor), and told him that he was going to slay him in the name of, and for the sake of the God of Israel, and then did, and then cut off the giant's head, God has rose up other mighty men of valor throughout history.

They do not back down from evil, but put a stop to it, and at the unction of a holy and a just and righteous God, Who loathes the evil that is behind the plotting of doing harm to an unsuspecting victim. It's all throughout God's Word.

We are to take a stand against evil and speak out for and defend those who cannot speak out for or defend themselves.

It is not a sin to take a stand against evil and to put a stop to it. It is righteous and valiant thing to do. To stand by and allow evil is akin to bowing to evil and becoming a pawn in its effort to cause harm and the demise of innocent parties.

To stand by and allow evil is a sin.

Thank you kindly.

"It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." ~Hebrews 10:31

Sure and... the weapobs of our warfare are not carnal... you see in the context of life in the spirit of God things are different. We are to have the mind of christ.

brinny · May 26, 2015

Alithis said:
Sure and... the weapobs of our warfare are not carnal... you see in the context of life in the spirit of God things are different. We are to have the mind of christ.

The mind of Christ as has been previously stated is righteous and just and as such experiences holy wrath. It is written that we are to hate evil, as God Himself hates it, and is the very reason that His only begotten Son died on the cross, and that was to defeat and obliterate it. This leads to, as you say, spiritual warfare. That is why we are admonished to put on the full armor of God, and to be alert and vigilant, for the enemy goes about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. We are to stand for what is righteous and to not back down from evil, as if we're "honoring" the very thing God hates. We are to utilize the wisdom and discernment that God Himself equips us with, and to recognize and take down strongholds, and to take a stand against whoever the enemy is utilizing to commit evil.

Thank you kindly.

Alithis · May 26, 2015

brinny said:
The mind of Christ as has been previously stated is righteous and just and as such experiences holy wrath. It is written that we are to hate evil, as God Himself hates it, and is the very reason that His only begotten Son died on the cross, and that was to defeat and obliterate it. This leads to, as you say, spiritual warfare. That is why we are admonished to put on the full armor of God, and to be alert and vigilant, for the enemy goes about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. We are to stand for what is righteous and to not back down from evil, as if we're "honoring" the very thing God hates. We are to utilize the wisdom and discernment that God Himself equips us with, and to recognize and take down strongholds, and to take a stand against whoever the enemy is utilizing to commit evil.

Thank you kindly.

Yes.. by loving them with the gospel .just as the lord jesus loved us and laid down his life fot us.not when we were rightous but when we were dead in sins.

brinny · May 26, 2015

Alithis said:
Yes.. by loving them with the gospel .just as the lord jesus loved us and laid down his life fot us.not when we were rightous but when we were dead in sins.

Jesus Christ died on the cross to defeat and obliterate evil. His inexplicable grace certainly does save to the utmost those who are covered by His blood. In the meantime there is very real evil. There are seven things that God hates.

Would you care to share what those seven things are, brother in Christ and beloved son of the Most High God?

Thank you kindly.

Alithis · May 26, 2015

brinny said:
Jesus Christ died on the cross to defeat and obliterate evil. His inexplicable grace certainly does save to the utmost those who are covered by His blood. In the meantime there is very real evil. There are seven things that God hates.

Would you care to share what those seven things are, brother in Christ and beloved son of the Most High God?

Thank you kindly.

i know the 7 you refer to and some of them even christians are guilty of .. and now under the revelation of Christ there is another even worse -it would be unforgivness

SpiritPsalmist · May 27, 2015

brinny said:
I'm sooooo sorry sister (((hug)))

I'm fine brinny, I just get frustrated trying to explain something and not doing well at it.

brinny · May 27, 2015

SpiritPsalmist said:
I'm fine brinny, I just get frustrated trying to explain something and not doing well at it.

I had no problem understanding what you were expressing, sis (((Hug)))

brinny · May 27, 2015

Alithis said:
i know the 7 you refer to and some of them even christians are guilty of .. and now under the revelation of Christ there is another even worse -it would be unforgivness

What are the seven things God hates, brother in Christ and beloved son of the Most High God?

Thank you kindly.

Alithis · May 27, 2015

brinny said:
What are the seven things God hates, brother in Christ and beloved son of the Most High God?

Thank you kindly.

proverbs 6 .. im not sure how it relates to the topic of defending self and others and my simple point that walking in the Holy Spirit we should have faith in God and not in our own strength .. (because it is easy for a young fit strong person to say they would rise up and fight or shoot and kill .its not so easy for the weak the widow the aged )

brinny · May 27, 2015

Alithis said:
proverbs 6 .. im not sure how it relates to the topic of defending self and others and my simple point that walking in the Holy Spirit we should have faith in God and not in our own strength .. (because it is easy for a young fit strong person to say they would rise up and fight or shoot and kill .its not so easy for the weak the widow the aged )

God places men (or women) of valor to defend those who cannot speak up for or defend themselves.

What are those seven things God hates, brother in Christ and beloved son of the Most High God?

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. ." ~Edmund Burke

Thank you kindly.

RDKirk · May 27, 2015

SpiritPsalmist said:
So that shows that in some situations it was expected that they be able to defend themselves. The fact that some were not able to defend themselves against persecution where the "government" killed them does not undo the fact that there was a sword at some point and it was expected to be used. By the time they were "persecuted" to death every thing they owned had been taken from them and they were dying for Jesus, not just dying because someone wanted to kill them for the heck of it. Surely, if you came upon someone who was molesting your child you would do more than just stand there and pray and bless them. The idea is to "STOP" them. If they die, they die, that was their choice. If they can be stopped without them dying that's great (except here in the States, if they live they are allowed to sue you because they got hurt...go figure).

That's a great deal of exergesis from one line. If you could show support for all that from somewhere else in the NT, it would bolster the argument ("Let everything be proven by two or more witnesses").

What I'm more concerned about are matters of heart and righteousness.

God has stipulated His principle: "I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather they come to repentance."

Yet, in this fallen world, God gives permission for man to do that which is not His perfect will. God permits divorce because the hearts of men are hard, for instance, but He still hates divorce. Every variance from what God desires most is sin, not righteousness; is tragedy, not holiness.

I divorced my first wife. I divorced her three years after she left me and our 9-month-old son for another man and left the country with him. I tried all that time to get her to come back to us Actually, it wasn't until I learned she'd broken up with the first guy and was with yet another guy that I finally filed for divorce. Even then, I hoped that getting the divorce papers would at least bring her back to the state, but it did not. So I did file for the divorce. And yet, I don't believe what I did was "righteous." I don't believe anything about the situation brought gladness to the heart of Jesus. It was all a sorry, sad, unholy, unrighteous situation.

I have spent a career in the military. I've carried a gun, but in uniform and out. Would I kill someone who was trying to harm my family? Yes, I could. But I would never classify anything about that circumstance as righteous, but as a whole sorry, sad, unholy, unrighteous mess in a fallen world.

Alithis · May 27, 2015

brinny said:
God places men (or women) of valor to defend those who cannot speak up for or defend themselves.

What are those seven things God hates, brother in Christ and beloved son of the Most High God?

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. ." ~Edmund Burke

Thank you kindly.

again its in proverbs ch 6 . get to the point ..its getting late here lol

Discussion Defending self and others.

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