Deeper fellowship??

[Criada]

John 13:34-35
34"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."


John 23:20-23
20"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

When will we grasp this?
Every time I come here, there seema to be discord rather than love.
Please - can we just focus on Him?
There are debate forums elsewhere!

It grieves God to see his children arguing - and it compromises our witness.

Please pray for unity, to glorify God.

God bless you all.

 

[stranger]

Please pray for unity, to glorify God.

Why pray against what Jesus said ? Do you suppose God will listen to you and not to Jesus? :-

Luke 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

 

[Criada]

Why pray against what Jesus said ? Do you suppose God will listen to you and not to Jesus? :-

Luke 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

I don't think this applies between Christians! Jesus was speaking of division between the church and the world here, not within the church!

 

[looksgood]

LOL, within the first 3 posts about unity this thread has become a debate. I agree with you that the church should be united as one body. I am afraid however that many have claimed to be christian and yet are not. The bible makes mention to us to mark those people and not number them with us. That is the biggest reason I know of for the imagined division.

 

[stranger]

I don't think this applies between Christians! Jesus was speaking of division between the church and the world here, not within the church!

You use the 'church ' as though it were undivided, but the 'christian church' is divided in extremo, not just into sects, denominations, creeds, etc, but completely divided even within such creeds by personal variations...

Thus by Jesus' own words, the 'christian church' must fall, it cannot stand divided as it is... thus Jesus was not talking of the division you assert he was [without and scriptural support for that assertion, but much scripture against it]

Luke 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.

Satan will however call for total unification of world religion and all the world will wrship his credal religious image of a christ, a saviour [Rev 13:3-7] and that unification will DIVIDE off the firstfruit saints against him [Rev 13:8] so that is the division Jesus was talking about the division of religionists from the saints taught only by God Himself :-

John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

1 Thessalonians 4:9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

Since there are but 144,000 saints by Jesus' return [Rev 7:3-8] and all the many sinners are saved AFTERWARD -Rev 7:9-10 [but obviously they do not live again until the second resurrection as they are sinners] ,then the firstfruits, the sheep , simply cannot be the 'chrsitain church' ,not only bewcause they are sinners,, not saints, but simply by the NUMBERS involved :-

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

So Jesus is right about how many there are [it is not symbolic since Jude underlined what enoch said, there are just tens of thousands of saints at Jesus' return , God simply said it more accurately as 144,000 in Jesus' revelation reported to John by the angel]

and the i44,000 are saints, not sinners... they were sinners originally, but perfected their love in trial in life to become saints and sin no more :-

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Thus the new covenant is correct inline with Jesus description of the 144,000 as all being of tribal Israel, descended from the sons of Jacob given by name in Rev 7:5-8... grace is indeed given only to [the few, the remnant of] the House of Judah [Jews] and the lost sheep of the House of Israel [long ago paganised as gentiles and scattered amongst all nations, from whence Jesus was sent by God to gather them ]

Thus the bible appears to differ evry markedly about the division Jesus meant, it is in fact very explicit that it is NOT the modern 'christian church' who are almost all sinners by admission...

 

[kisstheson]

John 13:34-35
34"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."


John 23:20-23
20"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

When will we grasp this?
Every time I come here, there seema to be discord rather than love.
Please - can we just focus on Him?
There are debate forums elsewhere!

It grieves God to see his children arguing - and it compromises our witness.

Please pray for unity, to glorify God.

God bless you all.

Criada,

You have a good heart. May God bless your efforts.

"Blessed are the peace makers for they shall be called Children of God," ~Jesus.

 

[Amylisa]

Criada,

You are absolutely right.
God bless you.
You are blessed by Him already, for you are a peacemaker! And yes, among those who belong to Him, there must be peace. Of course there will be disagreements, but we have to learn to bear with one another. If we can't be forgiving of each other, we're in trouble!

"By this shall the world know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

Thanks Criada.

 

[therebelprophet]

You use the 'church ' as though it were undivided, but the 'christian church' is divided in extremo, not just into sects, denominations, creeds, etc, but completely divided even within such creeds by personal variations...

Thus by Jesus' own words, the 'christian church' must fall, it cannot stand divided as it is... thus Jesus was not talking of the division you assert he was [without and scriptural support for that assertion, but much scripture against it]

Luke 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.

Satan will however call for total unification of world religion and all the world will wrship his credal religious image of a christ, a saviour [Rev 13:3-7] and that unification will DIVIDE off the firstfruit saints against him [Rev 13:8] so that is the division Jesus was talking about the division of religionists from the saints taught only by God Himself :-

John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

1 Thessalonians 4:9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

Since there are but 144,000 saints by Jesus' return [Rev 7:3-8] and all the many sinners are saved AFTERWARD -Rev 7:9-10 [but obviously they do not live again until the second resurrection as they are sinners] ,then the firstfruits, the sheep , simply cannot be the 'chrsitain church' ,not only bewcause they are sinners,, not saints, but simply by the NUMBERS involved :-

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

So Jesus is right about how many there are [it is not symbolic since Jude underlined what enoch said, there are just tens of thousands of saints at Jesus' return , God simply said it more accurately as 144,000 in Jesus' revelation reported to John by the angel]

and the i44,000 are saints, not sinners... they were sinners originally, but perfected their love in trial in life to become saints and sin no more :-

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Thus the new covenant is correct inline with Jesus description of the 144,000 as all being of tribal Israel, descended from the sons of Jacob given by name in Rev 7:5-8... grace is indeed given only to [the few, the remnant of] the House of Judah [Jews] and the lost sheep of the House of Israel [long ago paganised as gentiles and scattered amongst all nations, from whence Jesus was sent by God to gather them ]

Thus the bible appears to differ evry markedly about the division Jesus meant, it is in fact very explicit that it is NOT the modern 'christian church' who are almost all sinners by admission...

stranger, Here's a scripture that came to mind when I read your post.

16There are six things that the LORD hates,​

seven that are an abomination to him:​

17haughty eyes, a lying tongue,​

and hands that shed innocent blood,​

18a heart that devises wicked plans,​

feet that make haste to run to evil,​

19a false witness who breathes out lies,​

and one who sows discord among brothers.​

(emphasis mine)​

What you are doing, probably without even realizing it, is sowing discord in an effort to shove your opinion, not a properly divided word of Truth, down the throats of anyone who chances to read your post. Notice that it says that these are seven things that are an abomination to God. If I were in your shoes and someone raised an objection to what I said and even hinted that I might be doing something that God considers an abomination and they did it with kindness and humility...well, I might just rethink my attitude and position on a few things, probably.

Just a thought.

 

[stranger]

I don't think this applies between Christians! Jesus was speaking of division between the church and the world here, not within the church!

My point is that the ' christian church' itself really is divided , every denomination disagrees with every other one and people disagree within denominations, let alone the myriads of sects ...

Thus the 'christian church' MUST fall according to what Jesus himself said, because it is divided...

The Word of God is ONE truth by His spirit, NOT by the myriad differing sects and creeds of modern christianity ...

Jesus says that he will lead his 'congregation' of the FEW who find the narrow way into the ONE truth of God... well christians are born and die, but still the 'christian church' does NOT have ONE truth of God...

Whereas the saints are very few and DO AGREE , the 'christian church' is many and does not agree within...

Thus the christian church is NOt the saints of scripture and thus the scripture ABOUT the saints does NOT apply to it at all ... some claim to be saints,but do they have all truth as promised by Jesus to the few, they do not...

Thus God's truth is swamped out by personal interpretations by sinners who come to call themselves 'priests, but they are not the saints, not the priest-kings that the scripture says are made perfect in love through being GIVEN one truth by God's own spirit, the holy spirit of truth...

Thus one must distinguish the saints from the sinners, the sheep from the goats, and the 'christian churches' are amongst the goats as sinners, not with the saints as the sheep... most 'christians admit that they are sinners and never become saints at any time, yet the early followers of Jesus, though sinners originally, BECAME saints DURING THIS LIFE ... most christians rather obviously do not become saints in this life, and neither do almost all their priests ... thus most christians live in hope that Jesus will atke them as sinners , but he has said explicitly that he will NOT do so at his return :-

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Jesus indeed came to save all sinners, but he also explained that those taken first are the few saints, that the sinners STILL need to follow his way LATER , being perfected in love AFTERWARD [after death and the second resurrectuion and before judgment] - Rev 7:9-10

Thus one cannot expect to know the truth from sinners interpretations of scripture , of the hundreds of thousands available, just think, at MOST one can be true and no-one has enough time or effort to be able to find it in a lifetime of study... BUT God baptises His FEW to come to know all truth in life [John 16:13] so they are the FIRST fruits of the spirit

God alsio promises to baptise all men eventually [Joel 2:28] but the many cannot be baptised until the second resurrection since many already died as sinners....

 

[stranger]

LOL, within the first 3 posts about unity this thread has become a debate. I agree with you that the church should be united as one body. I am afraid however that many have claimed to be christian and yet are not. The bible makes mention to us to mark those people and not number them with us. That is the biggest reason I know of for the imagined division.

You missed the point, ALL truth is GIVEN by God , by His own spirit, to teh FEW who can follow Jesus NOW.... so they perfect their love in trial in THIS earth, they are the people of God , not the many sinners of this earth [including sinners who call themselves 'christians', but who live and die under sin]

If one does not give up sin altogether then one is not a saint , not a 'christian' in the original meaning of the word ... and one can only give up sin if God gives one the truth to have faith in it to stop sinning and live completely loving lives as Jesus showed is the ONLY WAY back to God ...

Seek the answer then in scripture why so many have to pretend they are christians following Jesus when they cannot obey his COMMAND as Lord to love everyone all the time ...

Calling Jesus 'Lord' just is not enough to be a christian, one must obey him as lord and stop sinning else one is not following him, not obeying his command [so he is not one's lord at all]

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Matthew 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Luke 13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

 

[stranger]

stranger, Here's a scripture that came to mind when I read your post.

16There are six things that the LORD hates,​

seven that are an abomination to him:​

17haughty eyes, a lying tongue,​

and hands that shed innocent blood,​

18a heart that devises wicked plans,​

feet that make haste to run to evil,​

19a false witness who breathes out lies,​

and one who sows discord among brothers.​

(emphasis mine)​

What you are doing, probably without even realizing it, is sowing discord in an effort to shove your opinion, not a properly divided word of Truth, down the throats of anyone who chances to read your post. Notice that it says that these are seven things that are an abomination to God. If I were in your shoes and someone raised an objection to what I said and even hinted that I might be doing something that God considers an abomination and they did it with kindness and humility...well, I might just rethink my attitude and position on a few things, probably.

Just a thought.

I have only quoted what the scripture says, I am not "sowing discord" at all... the 'christian church' simply IS divided, there is no point in lying to oneself about it , and scripture explains why it MUST be so...

So I am simply pointing out what the scripture says, and that the DIVISION Jesus talked about is between those who follow what the scripture actually says and those who follow sinners who have set up the diverse churches of christianity which Jesus said MUST fall...

Jeus also details the congregation of God in scripture and they are FEW, just 144, 000 saints, contrast yhat number with the [over a billion?] who call themselves 'christian' but do not obey Jesus and live life like any other sinners :-

Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

The few who are perfected in love and thus obey Jesus' command as their Lord, to love [all men at all times] are thus the few who are taken by Jesus at His return, just 144,000 [Rev 7:3-4] ... thus NOT the billion and more 'christians, who thus can only be redeemed afterward wih the mANY of all nations who alsdo were sinners in this life, not saints [Rev 7:9-10]

One can thus agree in the scripture , or be divided by following one of the myriad sects of 'christianity, but god has said that his scripture is NOT of this DIVERSE interpretation, but ONE truth... which simply and conclusively proves from scripture taht almost all christiansare wrong and only the saints are in fact christians [in the original meaning] , but that the MANY are saved, just afterward [Rev7:9-10]

 

[therebelprophet]

I have only quoted what the scripture says, I am not "sowing discord" at all... the 'christian church' simply IS divided, there is no point in lying to oneself about it , and scripture explains why it MUST be so...

So I am simply pointing out what the scripture says, and that the DIVISION Jesus talked about is between those who follow what the scripture actually says and those who follow sinners who have set up the diverse churches of christianity which Jesus said MUST fall...

Jeus also details the congregation of God in scripture and they are FEW, just 144, 000 saints, contrast yhat number with the [over a billion?] who call themselves 'christian' but do not obey Jesus and live life like any other sinners :-

Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

The few who are perfected in love and thus obey Jesus' command as their Lord, to love [all men at all times] are thus the few who are taken by Jesus at His return, just 144,000 [Rev 7:3-4] ... thus NOT the billion and more 'christians, who thus can only be redeemed afterward wih the mANY of all nations who alsdo were sinners in this life, not saints [Rev 7:9-10]

One can thus agree in the scripture , or be divided by following one of the myriad sects of 'christianity, but god has said that his scripture is NOT of this DIVERSE interpretation, but ONE truth... which simply and conclusively proves from scripture taht almost all christiansare wrong and only the saints are in fact christians [in the original meaning] , but that the MANY are saved, just afterward [Rev7:9-10]

I've already gotten into trouble several times on this forum for flaming (both intentionally and unintentionally). So I'm just gonna shut up. May God have mercy on your soul, buddy.

 

[Criada]

Mods, please could you close this thread?
I have no wish to cause further discord.
Thanks, God bless you.