I have heard it said that it's more important what we believe / think than what we do. I'ld like to get some feedback as to your positions regarding this statement.
Thanks,
torahlife
Thanks,
torahlife
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Deed or Creed
- Thread starter torahlife
- Start date
Henaynei
Sh'ma Yisrael, Adonai Echud! Al pi Adonai...
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Creed without Deed = Faith without works = death, emptiness, void, useless, self-deception
but then, if you want, I could express my *real* opinion
but then, if you want, I could express my *real* opinion
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The Thadman
Well-Known Member
Although both are equal overall IMHO, Creed would be the most important in practical application.
First, if one does works without believing in what they do, they are empty. The problems with traditions that Jesus called the Pharisees on by quoting Isaiah.
Second, God's plan calls for action, however, so as James said Faith without Works is dead. If you truly believe in God's plan, then you will want to do something about it.
In short, your Deeds will always reflect your Creed. If you believe that God says to jump, but you don't jump, what do you believe?
Peace!
-Steve-o
First, if one does works without believing in what they do, they are empty. The problems with traditions that Jesus called the Pharisees on by quoting Isaiah.
Second, God's plan calls for action, however, so as James said Faith without Works is dead. If you truly believe in God's plan, then you will want to do something about it.
In short, your Deeds will always reflect your Creed. If you believe that God says to jump, but you don't jump, what do you believe?
Peace!
-Steve-o
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koilias
Ancient Hassid in the making
The Good Samaritan did not have "creed"...but he had the deed.
Those who hear the word but do not do it, Yeshua compared to:
(1) the man who started a tower but did not finish it
(2) the man who built his house on sand
(3) the thorny and shallow soils
...there are probably more I can't think of now, but others might suggest.
Those who hear the word but do not do it, Yeshua compared to:
(1) the man who started a tower but did not finish it
(2) the man who built his house on sand
(3) the thorny and shallow soils
...there are probably more I can't think of now, but others might suggest.
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Whether you are a good samaritan who does what is right, and do not voice it as a creed, but live it in deed, or you are one who professes and does it, it takes both.
"Many sheep have not of this fold" may not even be able to point to the inspirer (see Holy Spirit [clear conscience]) of good deeds but they follow because they believe it is right.
Creed- the way the mind thinks
deed- the way that things get done.
"Many sheep have not of this fold" may not even be able to point to the inspirer (see Holy Spirit [clear conscience]) of good deeds but they follow because they believe it is right.
Creed- the way the mind thinks
deed- the way that things get done.
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C
CharlesYTK
Guest
Integrity.
It is said, "The first question that God will ask you in heaven is not, 'What did you believe?', but rather; 'How did you conduct you business affairs?' "
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:Which show the work of the law written in their hearts
Charles,
It is said, "The first question that God will ask you in heaven is not, 'What did you believe?', but rather; 'How did you conduct you business affairs?' "
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:Which show the work of the law written in their hearts
Charles,
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ShirChadash
A Jew, by the grace and love of God. Come home!
Yeah -- go ahead Henny and tell us what you REALLY think!!Henaynei said:Creed without Deed = Faith without works = death, emptiness, void, useless, self-deception
but then, if you want, I could express my *real* opinion
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Henaynei
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You can have a Creed and have no Deeds; You can not have Deeds and yet have no Creed.....Zemirah said:Yeah -- go ahead Henny and tell us what you REALLY think!!
Show me your Faith without works, and I will show you my Faith *by* my works.
Faith without works is **worse** than uselss - it is innoculated deadly self-deception
Christianity is largely know as a Creedal faith system - granted it has produced many with very sacrificial deeds - but Christianity historically has stressed "what you believe" over what you do.
Torah Judiasm is less concerned about what you believe than it is with what you do, for "out of the abundance of the heart" actions proceed.
Christianity teaches that you "learn to know," Judiasm teaches that you "learn to do."
As the Israelites said at the foot of Mount Sinai when they were given the Torah -"we will do and we will hear." The DOING comes *before* the hearing or understanding.
In Judaism understanding comes FROM the doing, while in Christianity the doing comes FROM the understanding
You can know a man by his actions, you can only know what he wants you to believe of him by his thoughts/ideas/conversation.
This has profound application in the virtual world of CF/MJF..... By what I say, that I am a woman, married, over 50, a nurse, Torah-observant etc - you can ONLY know the "picture" or persona or avatar, if you will, that I want you to think I am, I could actualy be a 19 year old skin-head punk playing devil's advocate behind the scenes and in PM's preying on the uncertain nd weak for the sport of seeing people hurt...........BUT
By my actions, by my attitudes, by the way I ACT in the forum, discussions and as a moderator - by these you can come to **actually** know me and who I **really** am
for my real Creed will be made manifest by my real Deeds
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ShirChadash
A Jew, by the grace and love of God. Come home!
Atta girl.
ITA, as usual. I wrote somethng rather similar, but truncated... didn't like how it was coming out, and deleted it... and you said it, and more, far better Henny.
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Henaynei
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LOL I just have a knack for being wordyZemirah said:
Atta girl.
ITA, as usual. I wrote somethng rather similar, but truncated... didn't like how it was coming out, and deleted it... and you said it, and more, far better Henny.
As a newspaperman's daughter I *should* be able to say more with *fewer* words - LOL - guess it skipped my generation
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Katydid
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There have been MANY times when I didn't WANT to do the right thing. Did not feel like in this case it was right, but someone very smart once told me
"If you act like you believe it, then eventually, your heart will reflect your actions"
That stuck with me. Even if I don't believe in what I am doing, if I continue to do it, then eventually, I find that I do believe in it.
"If you act like you believe it, then eventually, your heart will reflect your actions"
That stuck with me. Even if I don't believe in what I am doing, if I continue to do it, then eventually, I find that I do believe in it.
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