Deconversion?

Chaplain David · Dec 13, 2009

Sojourner1 said:
We aren't worshiping different Gods
Maybe God has never been silent for you, and if that is so you are fortunate. Many believers, however, have experienced His silence and have spent time in the desert. I am thankful for His silence because when He is silent my faith grows stronger. God rewards faithfulness and when we demonstrate our faith, even when He is silent, it is worth going through the desert. I believe that David also experienced God's silence and he wrote about it in the following verses:

Psalms 10:1
Why do You stand afar off, O LORD? Why do You hide in times of trouble?

Psalm 27:8,9
When You said, “Seek My face,”
My heart said to You, “Your face, LORD, I will seek.”
Do not hide Your face from me;
Do not turn Your servant away in anger;
You have been my help;
Do not leave me nor forsake me,
O God of my salvation.

Psalms 55:1
Give ear to my prayer, O God, And do not hide Yourself from my supplication.

I think it's great that you are on the mountaintop. Being on the mountaintop with God is the best place to be. The problem is that in order to get on the mountaintop you have to go through the valley. Sometimes we go through a cycle of valleys and mountaintops. I believe that Sarah is in the valley right now and with the grace of God she will eventually be back up on the mountaintop. Those who are giving advice in this thread are helping her survive the valley and keep moving toward the mountain.

If I might piggy back on what you've said it is my belief that many Christians experience dark nights of the soul. This is well documented throughout Christian history. Sometimes they can last for a short time, other times longer. I also believe and have seen that we experience God differently and that the phrase, a personal relationship with Jesus Christ is just that, personal and individual. I've done some questioning this year too. This is something most of us have in common, sooner or later. None of us is perfect and I would say very few have unwavering faith. Life can throw some very difficult things at us and I know because I have experienced some and see them in my hospital work. As several have said in this thread it is not our job to preach at a person who is struggling but to try to help them. I think Jesus would want to help them as well. I think of the words "Love one another the way I have loved you" as extremely relevant here. Good to see you.

Criada · Dec 13, 2009

azzy said:
Deconverting.

IF You are a father,,can your son unbecome your son?

Your son may run away from home,,and join himself to other strangers,,but in his heart he will always know where home is at.

Can you unknow someone?

Once you have walked with them , talked with them and fellowshiped with them,,can you then unknow who they are?

No,,you cant.

If you knew who God was,,and walked with him,,and served him,,then the knowledge of God(who he is)will always be with you no matter where you go.

When you were saved,,you were made aware of God by the Holy Spirit,, something the world can not see.The world cant see nor know God.

so deconverting will mean an open rejection of that which you know in your heart to be true,,assuming you knew God and walked with him.If you were never saved to start with then your not deconverting,,just rejecting
what knowledge you have of God, and choosing not to embrace it nor follow after it.

you are choosing another path.

God told Israel,,I am married to you oh house of Israel,,yet you have played the harlot in worshipping the Gods/Goddesses of the nations round about you. So if you belong to Christ(the church is the Bride of Christ)and you choose to go searching for other Gods/Goddesses,,and if you embrace and worship them,,and call yourself after thier names,,then you will be commiting adultery agaisnt Christ,,who has called you to be his Bride

The choice is and will always be yours, to love God and to return the love he has given to you,, or to go elsewhere and search for whatever your soul is longing for. a woman who is asked by a man to marry him,,can say yes,,or no. she can apreciate his love and gifts to her,,except them and devote herself to this man,,or she can say no thanks. your not what Im looking for.

So what are you looking for?

What is it that makes you unhappy with the Lord?

Do you have any good memories where God came through for you and where you saw him help you and comfort you? Its hard to imagine a person getting saved and not at some point having a special moment with God,,where he embraced you and loved you and whispered a gentle word into your soul,,letting you know everything would be ok.

Have you had any of these moments?

May the God of Israel help you on your journey through life.

To be honest, this is something that I would have completely agreed with a while ago. I don't want to reject God, there is nothing that makes me 'unhappy' with him.. how could there be? It's not for me to judge God!!

And yes, I certainly thought I was saved, and there have been many moments when I have believed that I have felt his presence, heard his voice, seen him answer prayer.

But now, I can't explain it, and I don't think many people actually understand what the issue is. It's not that I am rejecting God, it's not that I can't 'feel' or hear him... I have had dark nights, valley experience or whatever you wish to call them, and I have, as you say, got through because I did know, deep down, that God was there and real, whatever I may feel.
But now, I have lost that belief, something erssential has changed, I am not rejecting God, because I can't believe that he is there to reject. The faith, belief, whatever, has gone, and all I can see is 'rational' explanations for what I have experienced in the past.
Maybe I wasn't saved, I don't, at the moment, think that there is anything to be saved from, nor anyone to be saved by. And even typing that hurts, because I want to go back and believe... even if it isn't real, I was a lot happier being deluded than I am feeling alone now. But... I just don't know how...

Jo1 · Dec 13, 2009

Criada said:
To be honest, this is something that I would have completely agreed with a while ago. I don't want to reject God, there is nothing that makes me 'unhappy' with him.. how could there be? It's not for me to judge God!!

And yes, I certainly thought I was saved, and there have been many moments when I have believed that I have felt his presence, heard his voice, seen him answer prayer.

But now, I can't explain it, and I don't think many people actually understand what the issue is. It's not that I am rejecting God, it's not that I can't 'feel' or hear him... I have had dark nights, valley experience or whatever you wish to call them, and I have, as you say, got through because I did know, deep down, that God was there and real, whatever I may feel.
But now, I have lost that belief, something erssential has changed, I am not rejecting God, because I can't believe that he is there to reject. The faith, belief, whatever, has gone, and all I can see is 'rational' explanations for what I have experienced in the past.
Maybe I wasn't saved, I don't, at the moment, think that there is anything to be saved from, nor anyone to be saved by. And even typing that hurts, because I want to go back and believe... even if it isn't real, I was a lot happier being deluded than I am feeling alone now. But... I just don't know how...

((((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))) dear sister it is real. (((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))

pdudgeon · Dec 13, 2009

because I want to go back and believe... even if it isn't real, I was a lot happier being deluded than I am feeling alone now. But... I just don't know how...

the beautiful thing about this is that God already knows you want to come back, and He's ready to take you back.

You aren't the only one who's ever wandered or even ran in the opposite direction from God. Prophets have done it, preachers have done it, even John the Baptist who saw Jesus in the flesh and talked with Him, and knew that He was the Son of God, had doubts in his life when things took a bad turn for him.

God is real, and you matter to Him.

pdudgeon · Dec 13, 2009

because I want to go back and believe... even if it isn't real, I was a lot happier being deluded than I am feeling alone now. But... I just don't know how...

the beautiful thing about this is that God already knows you want to come back, and He's ready to take you back.

You aren't the only one who's ever wandered or even ran in the opposite direction from God. Prophets have done it, preachers have done it, even John the Baptist who saw Jesus in the flesh and talked with Him, and knew that He was the Son of God, had doubts in his life when things took a bad turn for him.

God is real, and you matter to Him.

Tinker Grey · Dec 13, 2009

Criada said:
Maybe I wasn't saved, I don't, at the moment, think that there is anything to be saved from, nor anyone to be saved by.

Ditto.

And even typing that hurts, because I want to go back and believe... even if it isn't real, I was a lot happier being deluded than I am feeling alone now. But... I just don't know how...

You are not alone ... but, I know the feeling. I have a believing spouse and three children who believe because I (with my wife, of course) reared them to. Being who I am, I often enjoy the silence and alone time on Sundays. But, at least once a month, I feel a little sorry for myself.

I am in the process of building a community of non-believers. I have participated in one atheist meet-up so far. A fellow non-believer and I have spent some time discussing just what is it that we want to do now that we are free. It is disconcerting. I had always known what life was about. Now that it can be about anything, I feel a little disoriented.

It is a little like raising children. Children need parameters. If they know the rules, they no how to behave and are happy for it. Without those guidelines, they begin to act out.

I think that the evolution of humanity constrains us (and hence a perception of morality). But beyond helping the species to survive, it's all wide open.

This feeling is also a little like agoraphobia. We like our walls. But, now they are gone. How now shall we live? I look forward to this new journey, but I wish I knew where it was going. Another analogy? Sure. It's like having spent my life training to skydive. I have just now stepped from the plane and have only fallen a few feet. I have that feeling in my gut that is both terror and excitement -- like hitting that first drop on a roller-coaster.

No, sister. You are not alone.

PM anytime.

Gwenyfur · Dec 14, 2009

Criada

azzy · Dec 14, 2009

Criada said:
To be honest, this is something that I would have completely agreed with a while ago. I don't want to reject God, there is nothing that makes me 'unhappy' with him.. how could there be? It's not for me to judge God!!

And yes, I certainly thought I was saved, and there have been many moments when I have believed that I have felt his presence, heard his voice, seen him answer prayer.

But now, I can't explain it, and I don't think many people actually understand what the issue is. It's not that I am rejecting God, it's not that I can't 'feel' or hear him... I have had dark nights, valley experience or whatever you wish to call them, and I have, as you say, got through because I did know, deep down, that God was there and real, whatever I may feel.
But now, I have lost that belief, something erssential has changed, I am not rejecting God, because I can't believe that he is there to reject. The faith, belief, whatever, has gone, and all I can see is 'rational' explanations for what I have experienced in the past.
Maybe I wasn't saved, I don't, at the moment, think that there is anything to be saved from, nor anyone to be saved by. And even typing that hurts, because I want to go back and believe... even if it isn't real, I was a lot happier being deluded than I am feeling alone now. But... I just don't know how...

you seem to have your mind made up to justify turning your back on the Lord and breaking the COVENANT you had with him,,if this is so then you are free to choose your own way.

But there will be consequences for the choices you make.

If you knew God then in your heart you are aware of the impending judgment agaisnt you,,,cursed is the man who,s heart departs from the lord,,and who forgets his maker.

Trying to justify your turning away to others who you think will comfort you is foolish,,you alone will give account of your choice,,and no one here will stand with you when you stand before God to give account of what you have done with the life he gave you.

Its like the man who tells his wife,,I dont want to hurt you,,and I respect you,,but I want to explore other women,.

But you do so at your own peril,,God will not force you to serve or love him,,the choice is yours to freely make.God is not going to twist your arm,,and beg you to love him.

If he is your God,,then serve him,,if not then go after whoever you think will love you like he has,and good luck finding this new god,,cause your gonna need it.And I should know,,I have been there.

Criada · Dec 14, 2009

I'm not trying to justify anything, I was just asking what others had experienced.
And I am not looking for other gods... if I can't serve the one I loved, then I'm certainly not looking to any other.
As for judgement, I anticipated that when I did believe; now, if I am walking away from the truth, then yes, I deserve it. If I am escaping a delusion, then death will be final, and that is that.
I still hope the former is the case... but I don't believe that it is.

sk8Joyful · Dec 14, 2009

sacerdote said:
Life can throw some very difficult things at us and I know
because I have experienced some and see them in my hospital work.
Jesus would want to help them as well. I think of the words "Love one another the way I have loved you" as extremely relevant here.

Too many here are "preaching", I agree. They preach to such of us not preaching, but genuinely sharing...from our soul, & heartfelt experiences...
oh,
and as re "hospital work": been there, done that, for a over a decade. That's why I helped start Home-care in my state.
You would be amazed how many people, once they succeeded leaving the hospital ALIVE,
(given supposedly limited days to live), yet not only surpassed that by weeks, or months, but by years and
given such of us as "professional CHEERleaders", got them outa their comas, helped people wean
offa life-support,
moved legs outa wheelchairs, got rid of trachs, etc. & so forth... is there a GOD, Sarah? - For sure!
God LIVES!! in whom we also live, and have our being. PRAISE God!
.

DannyOcean · Dec 14, 2009

Criada said:
I'm not trying to justify anything, I was just asking what others had experienced.
And I am not looking for other gods... if I can't serve the one I loved, then I'm certainly not looking to any other.
As for judgement, I anticipated that when I did believe; now, if I am walking away from the truth, then yes, I deserve it. If I am escaping a delusion, then death will be final, and that is that.
I still hope the former is the case... but I don't believe that it is.

I hope you can come to a conclusion soon. I know that being in the 'in between' stages of belief and non-belief is very stressful. My only advice would be to make sure your decision is based on your own thoughts and conclusions, and not influenced by fear of possible judgment. It's not an easy decision to make, and I wish you good luck.

Danny

nicknack28 · Dec 14, 2009

In all honesty I read the first page or so and the last page and decided 3:10am was too early to read a novel. However, I did get a glance at Danny's post mentioning in-between stages of belief -- deciding what to believe. I have to agree with him in all respects.

I can't accuse anyone here of doing this because I haven't read enough to know, but I see it very often that when someone is unsure of what they believe and are trying to figure it out a whole bunch of people from all sides (regardless of what they believe or don't believe) try to tug at that person all at the same time in the interest of gaining a member. Trust so and so, listen to this and that, this means what where and when, and how you should go about it. I don't know about anyone else but I find my thinking to be exponentially clearer and more self-aware when I mute all the voices giving me odds and ends of mismatching advice and just think for myself by myself for my own reasons and how I want to.

....

Okay, so an ironic post, yeah, but ya get me.

Chaplain David · Dec 14, 2009

azzy said:
you seem to have your mind made up to justify turning your back on the Lord and breaking the COVENANT you had with him,,if this is so then you are free to choose your own way.

But there will be consequences for the choices you make.

If you knew God then in your heart you are aware of the impending judgment agaisnt you,,,cursed is the man who,s heart departs from the lord,,and who forgets his maker.

Trying to justify your turning away to others who you think will comfort you is foolish,,you alone will give account of your choice,,and no one here will stand with you when you stand before God to give account of what you have done with the life he gave you.

Its like the man who tells his wife,,I dont want to hurt you,,and I respect you,,but I want to explore other women,.

But you do so at your own peril,,God will not force you to serve or love him,,the choice is yours to freely make.God is not going to twist your arm,,and beg you to love him.

If he is your God,,then serve him,,if not then go after whoever you think will love you like he has,and good luck finding this new god,,cause your gonna need it.And I should know,,I have been there.

Hi, I am a Southern Baptist Minister of the moderate variety. And frankly I have collegues who are in the extreme who preach less fire and brimstone than is contained in your post. Have some compassion and understanding and if you don't have that, maybe you should just be quiet. I guarantee you that things will occur in your life that will rock you so hard and shake you so bad you will not know whether you are coming or going. That is what we are talking about here. God bless you.

A New Dawn · Dec 14, 2009

DannyOcean said:
I hope you can come to a conclusion soon. I know that being in the 'in between' stages of belief and non-belief is very stressful. My only advice would be to make sure your decision is based on your own thoughts and conclusions, and not influenced by fear of possible judgment. It's not an easy decision to make, and I wish you good luck.

Danny

A Christian loves God, and serves him because they love him, not because they are fearful about how the end turns out. I am sure Criada knew that, and continues to know that, and if/when she does turn back to the Lord, that will not be the reason why.

Tinker Grey · Dec 14, 2009

Criada,

If I may ask, how is your family taking it or is it still private?

sk8Joyful · Dec 14, 2009

never mind

Criada · Dec 14, 2009

Tinker Grey said:
Criada,

If I may ask, how is your family taking it or is it still private?

My husband knows, but thinks it is something that will pass. My children don't... at the moment I don't know how to tell them, I don't want to cause any more hurt..
The rest of my family are not Christian, and wouldn't have any comprehension of what I am thinking or feeling... nor any interest in whether or not I believe...

gratefulgrace · Dec 14, 2009

Criada here is a question I have for you. In all other respects apart from your total lack of feeling about God's presence in your life do you 'feel' normal. The reason I ask this is because depression can blunt our sense of many things and rob us of joy of faith and relationships and such. Perhaps you are battling a depression. One of the Christians I admire most is Mark Buntain. He worked for years in Calcutta with the poor there and did amazing work. However in his later years he suffered terribly from depression. I am not sure if he "lost his faith" in it but it certainly shook him up a lot and he had seen miracles of healing and deliverance. gg

Tinker Grey · Dec 14, 2009

Criada said:
My husband knows, but thinks it is something that will pass. My children don't... at the moment I don't know how to tell them, I don't want to cause any more hurt..
The rest of my family are not Christian, and wouldn't have any comprehension of what I am thinking or feeling... nor any interest in whether or not I believe...

Thanks for answering my question.

I might suggest that you needn't tell your kids until (assuming it goes that way) you become comfortable with yourself.

And, you should take your time.

azzy · Dec 15, 2009

sacerdote said:
Hi, I am a Southern Baptist Minister of the moderate variety. And frankly I have collegues who are in the extreme who preach less fire and brimstone than is contained in your post. Have some compassion and understanding and if you don't have that, maybe you should just be quiet. I guarantee you that things will occur in your life that will rock you so hard and shake you so bad you will not know whether you are coming or going. That is what we are talking about here. God bless you.

Im not an exrtreem person,,Im not going to coddle this person,,,its like a husband who is wishy washy about weather or not he should remain faithfull to his wife.

He asked,,,and I gave my response,,and dont tell me not to say nothing at all if I cant say anything good,,who will decide what is good,,you?

Thats my response,,deal with it.

And I have already been rocked in life,,unlike the pampered people who fill most churches.

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