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Declaration of the Separation of the States of America
- Thread starter clirus
- Start date
PassionFruit quote
You keep dividing Christians and atheists into this dichotomy, are you aware there are Liberal Christians? What about the feminists who consider themselves Christian as well? They exist you know. How about atheists who are pro life?
Response
Doesn't the Bible divide people into Christians/believers and Atheists/non believers?
Doesn't the Bible say that Christians will go to heaven and Atheists will go to hell for eternity?
Doesn't the Bible say there is a difference between good and evil?
As for Liberal Christians, Feminist Christians, etc., I will leave it to God to judge. Each Christian needs to evaluate themselves relative to the commandments/doctrines of the Bible.
John 15:10-12 states, "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you"
Too much attention has been given to love and too little has been given to keeping the commandments.
You keep dividing Christians and atheists into this dichotomy, are you aware there are Liberal Christians? What about the feminists who consider themselves Christian as well? They exist you know. How about atheists who are pro life?
Response
Doesn't the Bible divide people into Christians/believers and Atheists/non believers?
Doesn't the Bible say that Christians will go to heaven and Atheists will go to hell for eternity?
Doesn't the Bible say there is a difference between good and evil?
As for Liberal Christians, Feminist Christians, etc., I will leave it to God to judge. Each Christian needs to evaluate themselves relative to the commandments/doctrines of the Bible.
John 15:10-12 states, "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you"
Too much attention has been given to love and too little has been given to keeping the commandments.
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Archaeopteryx
Wanderer
I have emphasized in bold the two segments of the text that are in contradiction, namely you claiming that too much attention is being paid to the commandment which Christ gave us: "That ye love one another, as I have loved you."
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Archaeopteryx
Wanderer
America never began as a Christian Nation, that is a myth, finally dispelled by the Treaty of Tripoli, signed by all present, declaring that in no sense of the word was the USA founded upon the Christian religion.
Prove definitively that from Socialism and Socialism alone there came the "legalization of pornography, abortion and homosexuality." Be mindful of the various Capitalists that favour one, each or all of those activities.
You are familiar already with my objection to your use of that phrase. To continue to claim that you can evaluate a whole person as either 'good' or 'evil' is, in my eyes, tantamount to claiming that you have a godly ability that we all lack.
By the nature of government it provides a service or some services to people. Locke's conception of legitimate civil authority is based upon the idea that people leave the 'State of Nature' and incorporate into political bodies in order to establish the service of security and "the free enjoyment of one's property." (Locke, c.1688. The Second Treatise on Government, Melbourne: Everyman's Library (1984)) That is a service governments provide, and apparently, are created for.
There I would offer some semblance of agreement with you.
(a) You have yet to provide in evidence in the support of the pervasive existence of an Atheistic Liberal News Media and Entertainment Industry. Until you do so, we have no reason to accept such a claim.
(b) If the agenda of this apparent media conglomeration is to promote evolution, then why are Creationists given a platform with which to speak? If its aims are to promote homosexuality, then why (in the past, and even the present) have speakers been allowed to endorse anti-homosexual (sometimes even homophobic) views on national television? If the goal of this media is to endorse homosexuality, then why was Miss California (I think that's who it was) allowed to express her dissent on national television? And why, oh why, did this media even allow advertisements for Republican candidates to be broadcast concurrently with those of their Democratic counter-parts? Sounds more like the agenda of the ALNM is, like the ALNW itself, a myth.
Contradiction. According to you, it may become necessary to violate both Civil Law and God's Law in doing 'whatever it takes' to achieve victory in a war. Your own claim invalidates your apparent allegiance to Blackstone's commentary.
Never mind that you would simultaneously be ostracizing numerable Christians and Capitalists in those States that you have chosen to segregate.
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bjspurple quote
You are familiar already with my objection to your use of that phrase. To continue to claim that you can evaluate a whole person as either 'good' or 'evil' is, in my eyes, tantamount to claiming that you have a godly ability that we all lack.
Response
There are really many places where humans are called to make a Godly decision to terminate life, which I believe God considers to be sacred.
When a person is sitting in a jury trial, they may have to make a decision to execute the person. I believe the decisions to execute is as much a responsibility as a decision to show mercy.
When a person is in the military, they may have to execute a person, and that execution may be based on a millisecond of information. I believe the decisions to execute is as much a responsibility as a decision to show mercy.
Obama had to make a decision to allow the military to execute three pirates without a jury trial. I believe the decisions to execute is as much a responsibility as a decision to show mercy.
It is tough process to determine good and evil, but I believe God has given humans the Bible to make that decision. II Timothy 3:16 states, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness".
I believe too many people have been failing to meet their responsibility to the whole Gospel.
You are familiar already with my objection to your use of that phrase. To continue to claim that you can evaluate a whole person as either 'good' or 'evil' is, in my eyes, tantamount to claiming that you have a godly ability that we all lack.
Response
There are really many places where humans are called to make a Godly decision to terminate life, which I believe God considers to be sacred.
When a person is sitting in a jury trial, they may have to make a decision to execute the person. I believe the decisions to execute is as much a responsibility as a decision to show mercy.
When a person is in the military, they may have to execute a person, and that execution may be based on a millisecond of information. I believe the decisions to execute is as much a responsibility as a decision to show mercy.
Obama had to make a decision to allow the military to execute three pirates without a jury trial. I believe the decisions to execute is as much a responsibility as a decision to show mercy.
It is tough process to determine good and evil, but I believe God has given humans the Bible to make that decision. II Timothy 3:16 states, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness".
I believe too many people have been failing to meet their responsibility to the whole Gospel.
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PassionFruit
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Of course it does, although that doesn't make the Bible true whether you want to believe it or not. But that the problem with Christianity, your religion is known for division. Just look at how you're divided among yourselves, I mean how many denominations are there? So you can't tell me there's a division just between Christians and Atheists. There's division among Christians themselves. You can't make this an "us vs. them."
Which commandments and which Bible? KJV, NKJV, NIV? And why should they follow that specific Bible?
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Nathan Poe
Well-Known Member
Clirus, you disappoint me on several levels.
First of all, your hijacking of the Declaration of Independence demonstrates a complete lack of originality on your part -- but considering how many times you've spammed your "Cultural war" nonsense, I can't be surprised.
Second, lacking the integrity to separate yourself from this nation, you presume to deny several states the right to call themselves Americans. By whose authority do you decide who is and is not worthy to be an American?
Third, in your zeal to eject those you consider undesireable, you've completely forgotten my own grate state of New Jersey. Do you think for an instant that NJ -- or any state that actually believes in individual liberty, and not submitting to the will of clirus, is going to want anything to do with you?
take control, clirus, and every state will abandon you. I almost wish it would happen -- it would show you how alone you truely are.
First of all, your hijacking of the Declaration of Independence demonstrates a complete lack of originality on your part -- but considering how many times you've spammed your "Cultural war" nonsense, I can't be surprised.
Second, lacking the integrity to separate yourself from this nation, you presume to deny several states the right to call themselves Americans. By whose authority do you decide who is and is not worthy to be an American?
Third, in your zeal to eject those you consider undesireable, you've completely forgotten my own grate state of New Jersey. Do you think for an instant that NJ -- or any state that actually believes in individual liberty, and not submitting to the will of clirus, is going to want anything to do with you?
take control, clirus, and every state will abandon you. I almost wish it would happen -- it would show you how alone you truely are.
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The American wise man Benjamin Franklin was there during the process of writing the Constitution. He was of the opinion, "I doubt too whether any other Convention we can obtain, may be able to make a better Constitution".
It will be seen how the future will turn out, where future events lead. Will it be a new government that will have a better version of the Constitution? A more religious Constitution? The same American wise man warned,
"In these sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such; because I think a general Government necessary for us, and there is no form of Government but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered, and believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in Despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic Government, being incapable of any other."
And on another note, Elonzo T Jones a SDA appeared before a senate commitee looking into legislating a Blue law into existance. You'd be surprised what he had to say when the senator offered to switch the wording from Sunday to Saturday. Blue Law
Bottom line, you can't legislate God's love into existance.
It will be seen how the future will turn out, where future events lead. Will it be a new government that will have a better version of the Constitution? A more religious Constitution? The same American wise man warned,
"In these sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such; because I think a general Government necessary for us, and there is no form of Government but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered, and believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in Despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic Government, being incapable of any other."
And on another note, Elonzo T Jones a SDA appeared before a senate commitee looking into legislating a Blue law into existance. You'd be surprised what he had to say when the senator offered to switch the wording from Sunday to Saturday. Blue Law
Bottom line, you can't legislate God's love into existance.
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Archaeopteryx
Wanderer
The difference is: we can judge the choices of a person as either 'good' or 'bad', but not their whole persons - we do not have the capacity for such a judgment, only God has. So when you say 'evil people' you are actually make claim to a judgment that you have no authority to make. You would be more accurate and within your jurisdiction of understanding to say 'evil choice' or 'evil action'.
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Dr. Andrew Newberg is a neuroscientist from the University of Pennsylvania and author of "How God Changes Your Brain." He has conducted brain scans to map the effects of spirituality on the mind. One of the questions addressed Dr. Newberg concerning "extreme beliefs" appears particular relevence for an OP obsessed with "a cultural war in America," between "Christians, Conservatives and Republicans" and "atheists, liberals and democrats."
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Fortunately, Dr. Newberg resides in Pennsylvania, a state that "clirus" hasn't excluded from the United States of America even though it did vote for Democratic president who will "promote evolution, extreme environmentalism, socialism, feminism, pornography, abortion, adultery, homosexuality and the Atheistic Lifestyle."
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Norbert L quote
The American wise man Benjamin Franklin was there during the process of writing the Constitution. He was of the opinion, "I doubt too whether any other Convention we can obtain, may be able to make a better Constitution".
It will be seen how the future will turn out, where future events lead. Will it be a new government that will have a better version of the Constitution? A more religious Constitution? The same American wise man warned,
"In these sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such; because I think a general Government necessary for us, and there is no form of Government but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered, and believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in Despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic Government, being incapable of any other."
And on another note, Elonzo T Jones a SDA appeared before a senate commitee looking into legislating a Blue law into existance. You'd be surprised what he had to say when the senator offered to switch the wording from Sunday to Saturday. Blue Law
Bottom line, you can't legislate God's love into existence.
Response
I believe the Constitution was good, but the Bible is better. The higher law is God's Law. When Civil Law and God's Law are consistent, then Civil Law will be good law. That was what Blackstone was saying and which was the general thinking until 1940.
You cannot legislate God's love into existence, but you can prevent evil from being legalized. Pornography, abortion and homosexuality have been legalized. Evolution is being legalized by being taught in schools.
And the worst thing is that the process of legalization of evil is only just beginning. It can get a lot worse. I fear the Obama Administration and the programs of Universal Health Care and Green Energy. Both programs will give the federal government total control over every American.
The American wise man Benjamin Franklin was there during the process of writing the Constitution. He was of the opinion, "I doubt too whether any other Convention we can obtain, may be able to make a better Constitution".
It will be seen how the future will turn out, where future events lead. Will it be a new government that will have a better version of the Constitution? A more religious Constitution? The same American wise man warned,
"In these sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such; because I think a general Government necessary for us, and there is no form of Government but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered, and believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in Despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic Government, being incapable of any other."
And on another note, Elonzo T Jones a SDA appeared before a senate commitee looking into legislating a Blue law into existance. You'd be surprised what he had to say when the senator offered to switch the wording from Sunday to Saturday. Blue Law
Bottom line, you can't legislate God's love into existence.
Response
I believe the Constitution was good, but the Bible is better. The higher law is God's Law. When Civil Law and God's Law are consistent, then Civil Law will be good law. That was what Blackstone was saying and which was the general thinking until 1940.
You cannot legislate God's love into existence, but you can prevent evil from being legalized. Pornography, abortion and homosexuality have been legalized. Evolution is being legalized by being taught in schools.
And the worst thing is that the process of legalization of evil is only just beginning. It can get a lot worse. I fear the Obama Administration and the programs of Universal Health Care and Green Energy. Both programs will give the federal government total control over every American.
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bjspurple quote
The difference is: we can judge the choices of a person as either 'good' or 'bad', but not their whole persons - we do not have the capacity for such a judgment, only God has. So when you say 'evil people' you are actually make claim to a judgment that you have no authority to make. You would be more accurate and within your jurisdiction of understanding to say 'evil choice' or 'evil action'.
Response
When good people fail to make a judgement based on the Bible, they are allowing evil people to make the judgement to lie, steal, rape and kill.
The idea of separating the sin and the sinner can be carried too far. At some point the sin and the sinner are one.
I believe America is in great danger because American's have become soft on sin.
I do not think God will honor the pacifist who does not love his neighbor enough to prevent the evil person from doing evil to the neighbor.
Is the Bible not a bases for defining evil?
There are two extremes. One is the John Wayne of shoot them all and let God sort them out, or the pacifist who would let evil overcome and God destroy it all.
The difference is: we can judge the choices of a person as either 'good' or 'bad', but not their whole persons - we do not have the capacity for such a judgment, only God has. So when you say 'evil people' you are actually make claim to a judgment that you have no authority to make. You would be more accurate and within your jurisdiction of understanding to say 'evil choice' or 'evil action'.
Response
When good people fail to make a judgement based on the Bible, they are allowing evil people to make the judgement to lie, steal, rape and kill.
The idea of separating the sin and the sinner can be carried too far. At some point the sin and the sinner are one.
I believe America is in great danger because American's have become soft on sin.
I do not think God will honor the pacifist who does not love his neighbor enough to prevent the evil person from doing evil to the neighbor.
Is the Bible not a bases for defining evil?
There are two extremes. One is the John Wayne of shoot them all and let God sort them out, or the pacifist who would let evil overcome and God destroy it all.
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Archaeopteryx
Wanderer
The Higher Law and the Civil Law can, according to you, be violated in the process of doing 'whatever it takes' to achieve victory in a war. Why even have a Civil Law or claim allegiance to a Higher Law if you are you just going to relinquish it when confronted by adversity?
You have yet demonstrate the apparent wrong in teaching a scientific theory in Science classes.
In Australia we have a system of universal health care, and it certainly does not amount to the Commonwealth Government exercising 'total control' over every Australian. If it did do you really think we would subscribe to it?
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Archaeopteryx
Wanderer
There you go again... using language that I would argue you are not qualified to use. Only God with his almighty gaze can pierce every facade of personality and view the entirety of a human heart; only God can weigh the contents of that heart; only God can evaluate a whole person because only God can view and examine a whole person in his or her entirety. You cannot. You possess no such capacity to peer into the contents of my heart and judge the entirety and wholeness of my person. You can only judge choices as 'good' or 'evil' based upon the direction of your moral compass of conscience; but you cannot ever peer into my mind and see my secret thoughts or understand the inner workings of my psyche or the true contents of my heart to ever come to a judgment about whether I am good or evil on the whole - only God has that power.
How so?
Defining evil acts and wrong choices, but not evil persons since not even the Bible can allow you to examine, analyze and evaluate a whole person. The Bible provides no means or capacity for such analysis and evaluation. It doesn't give you the magical power to see into the interior of my heart or anyone else's for that matter. Only God can see that.
Why are you bringing up pacifism? I have not seen anyone on this thread argue a pacifist case. For the record, I do not consider myself a pacifist. And for the record, not everyone who opposes unjust wars or wars based on dubious reasoning is a pacifist - it's just common sense.
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K
Kharak
Guest
The Latin-Americans called, they said they don't want your help anymore. Apparently, they didn't like Pinochet as much as originally predicted.
You may have God on your side, but everyone says that. That will not stop 5.56mm rounds. That is, unless your wearing that shield technology from Dune. In which case, just don't start using lasers.
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TheNewWorldMan
phased plasma rifle in 40-watt range
So what will we call the new country? Clirusistan? It'll end up somewhere around Iran and down the street from Saudi Arabia. Only it likely won't have oil...so no one will care about it. 
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"Clirus" has gone to great lengths to condemn the "atheists, liberals and Democrats," and then proceeds to preach "The Gospel According to Clirus" in the name of Christianity.
"Clirus" would have us believe that The Greatest Commandment applies only to those we perceive as our "good neighbors," - but not to our "bad neighbors."
In reality, they are "all our neighbors" - God has granted neither "clirus" nor any other person on earth the wisdom to judge who is/who is not "their neighbor."
"Clirus" would have Christians respond to the world by returning "evil" with evil," ignoring the words of Christ in Luke 23:33,34 and Steven in Acts 7:58-60 who ask God to for forgive their persecutors.
Apparently there is no room for the examples of forgiveness by Christ and Stephen in "The Gospel According to Clirus."
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