I should have been more specific and said Science can be used as a tool to help fill the earth and subdue it.
...as God commanded us.
The thing is we humans haven’t had much difficultly with filling and subduing, but we’re not near as good at going out and preaching the gospel to the outer part of the earth.
Agreed. This first two commands are ones the human race have always taken to with glee. The church has not been so good on the new commission.
First of all heliocentrism isn’t a foundational or historical issue, but then again you already knew that. It also doesn’t contradict the Bible and you knew that too!
Neither is six day creationism foundational. And the literalist interpretation of the Genesis days doesn't have the historical support geocentrism had. Geocentrism, was universally understood as the scriptural position, without a single voice of dissent, up until Copernicus and Galileo. The Genesis days on the other had been given a wide range of interpretations, from the single day, a thousand years or the purely figurative.
Heliocentrism contradicts the plain literal interpretation of a wide range of scriptural passages and caused real problems for the church when it was shown to be wrong. Geocentrism was much better supported in scripture than six day creationism.
I love how man can speak with such authority when his own history is but only a few thousand years old, yet he can clearly and emphatically state the earth to be 4,500,000,000 years old.
I rounded it off.
Don’t forget resurrections from the dead, virgin birth, God incarnate, etc, etc.
You include resurrection, virgin birth, and the incarnation with seven headed monsters, talking trees, Crawl back into our mother's womb and six day creationism?
You don’t have too, it’s spelled out in your theology.
No it is not. We say the exact opposite. You are reading our theology through Atheist coloured glasses. They don't see God acting in natural processes. But this is a really strange viewpoint for Christians.
I’ve never said that, again another wishful thought. Please stick to what I do say, like I told shernren, there’s plenty to pick from.
I’ve never stated or implied anything even remotely like that. I believe everything is under God’s direct control, He is like a conductor of a symphony that guides and directs all the forces of creation. Like I’ve said before, God is the quarterback and He’s definitely in the game.
So you
do believe God can act through natural processes? The force of gravity does not exclude God from being in control of the Solar System? Does meteorology exclude God from sending rain? No? You don't think that either? Does plate tectonics exclude God from creating the continents, mountains and valleys? Do genetics and obstetrics exclude God from forming me in my mother's womb?
But evolution puts God on the sidelines?
Real sciences are those based upon observation and empirical tests that can be shown authentic.
Most science deals with things we can never observe. Electrons protons and neutrons were accepted without anyone ever seeing one. Who has observed a hormone acting inside a living human cell? Has anyone seen a quark? However all sciences are rigorously tested to show they are authentic, including geology and evolution.
I don’t have a problem with speculation and conjecture as long as it is identified as such and not truth. Copernicus and Galileo were able to do that, why can’t evolutionists?
Speculation and conjecture as you put it are called hypothesis in science. So they are clearly identified, scientists just use different terms.
Heliocentrism was accepted on much less evidence and testing than we have for evolution and the age of the earth. How could a 17th century scientist carry out tests on the orbit of a planet?
I don’t know if Augustine is your best advocate. Augustine wrote The City of God, within it he writes, "the Scripture . . . has paramount authority . . . to which we yield assent in all matters . . . That God made the world, we can believe from no one more safely than God Himself." Regarding the age of the earth, he wrote in The City of God, "Reckoning by the sacred writings, we find that not 6,000 years have past."
The simple fact that he believed the days of Genesis were figurative shows that there have been a range of interpretations of Gen 1 through history and Augustine's nonliteral interpretation one of the most influential.
Augustine believe the earth was young. He was also a geocentrist. But much more importantly, he believed it was utterly foolish for Christians to set their own interpretations against science.
Augustine said:
The Literal Meaning of Genesis, Book 1, Chapter 19
39. Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he holds to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking non-sense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn.
That’s funny he sure wrote it like he did and countless millions believed him too.
You mean like he wrote about God having arms and hands or God getting tired? Read Psalm 90, the one thing Peter tells us not to forget.
Yeah just check out His Word, it’s a good read, He tells us quite a bit about how He works.
You mean like where he says
Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD.
Yes indeed, it is interesting. He’s still up to the same old game and we’re still buying it.
You should check out God's Word, it wasn't really a snake.
Tell me. Did God really say the seed of the woman would crush the snakes head? I don't remember reading that in the Gospels.
No God didn’t really say.
Gen 3:14 The LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, cursed are you above all cattle, and above all wild animals; upon your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life.
15 I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel."
Since you don’t remember reading it then it hasn’t happened right? Isn’t that what you believe? I don’t!
You think Jesus did crush a 4000 year old snake's head, fulfilling the oldest prophecy in the bible, but the gospel writers didn't bother mentioning it?
God says a lot of things figuratively, their not hard to figure out either, that is if we’re willing to get our pride out of the way first.
You are not far from the kingdom.
Our understanding is developed by what we see manifested in actions and not so much in words. Lots of people claim to believe in God and call themselves Christians, that doesn’t make it true. The same for any of us who make claims. What’s true is what we produce, is it good fruit or bad fruit?
I don't see what that has to do with your misrepresenting what TEs believe.
First of all, none of issues you brought up are going strong. Oh there will always be a fringe element out there challenging anything and everything. They obviously carry no weight and no one takes them seriously.
Astrology is very strong about 30% of Americans believe in it. 18% think the sun goes around the earth. Think how much higher that would be if literalist preachers took their bibles seriously and really started pushing biblical geocentrism the way they push YEC. About 20% of Americans believe the moon landings were a hoax. This may not have the religious dimension of the others but shares the same science as conspiracy world view as YEC.
No but I can see you did. Thanks!
You are welcome.