Deceiving and Being Deceived

[Studyman]

Yes, disobedience to not being physically circumcised, disobedience for not giving your tithes, disobedience for not following sacrificial law, keeping feasts, ... all of that was a sign of disbelief. Disobedience proves disbelief, both in the Old Testament and the new. we live as we believe. You are obviously firmly convinced in your own mind. I see your beliefs as being inconsistent with what is said and done and not said and not done in the New Testament. Or it would say what you are saying and not leave those things out.

This is because like Jesus and Paul, I get my instructions from the God of the Bible. You once said, then removed the comment, that you don't care about the Commandments of God.

I know you don't. Neither did the Pharisees, and neither did those examples of unbelief.

You have been convinced to reject the OT as if it is not the Word of God. You have implied that your Bible really doesn't start till Romans.

But the Biblical Truth is, none of the Letters which are compiled to make the New Testament, were part of the Christ's Teaching during His entire Life on earth. Both Jesus and Paul taught that the Gospel of Christ IS the Law and Prophets where it is written "the just shall live by Faith".

The Religious men of this world, who call Jesus Lord, Lord, have rejected the very Scriptures Jesus used to further His Gospel. Circumcision was always for the heart. A Jew was always a Jew who was one inwardly.

Man has always been required to live by Faith as the Scriptures clearly show. Not to mention that EVERY EXAMPLE OF FAITH was taken from the Holy Scriptures you consider less than Holy and Significant.

I know you are simply preaching what you learned from the religions of the land you were born into, but that is a mistake "many" have made and there are "many" examples of this "unbelief" in the Law and Prophets God had written for our admonition.

This is why I posted this thread in the first place.

 

[Studyman]

Even after the Jesus you call "Lord, Lord, flat out tells you;

"Man shall Live by Every Word which Proceeds from the mouth of God" and "God's Sabbath was made for man".

It was. It was. So was the sacrificial system.

Not at first. It was "ADDED" because of Transgressions "Till the Seed should come. I know you are not taught this by the religions of this world, but the Law and Prophets do teach us.

Jer. 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.

This Sacrificial System requiring animal sacrificial "works of the law" for justification was to be in place Till the True Lamb of God should Come. But the 10 Commandments of God, and His Teaching on how to treat others was not a Temporary system. This is a deceptive tactic that the religions of this world use to justify their man made doctrines and traditions. I was hoping you might consider the Word's of the Christ as Truth, not lies because of your lack of understanding regarding the Sacrificial system imposed until our true High Priest, after the Order of Melchizedek, was to come.

Zacharias, Simeon, Anna, and the wise men all knew this truth, and they knew Jesus when HE came. But the mainstream religion of that time, who transgressed god's commandments by their own religious traditions didn't know Jesus when HE came. Why don't you rad Luke 1 & 2, and let the Light of the Christ show you why they knew Him, but the Pharisees didn't.

so was circumcision,

Circumcision has always been from the heart.

Deut. 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

17 For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:

Paul said Circumcision Profits men as long as they are not rejecting God's Laws. Here, I'll let him tell you, so then it is him you don't believe, not me.

Rom. 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

26 Therefore if the uncircumcision (Gentiles) keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? (Yes, his heart is circumcised, he relies on the Father, not his own flesh)

27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Always has been and always will.

so was the whole law ... It was a tutor to lead us to Christ who is the substance ... thiose things are the shadow. You are still focused on the shadow...

No, this is the great deception that you have been deceived on, and are now furthering this deceit on to others.

The "WHOLE LAW" was not "ADDED because of Transgressions, "till the Seed should come."

Abraham had God's Laws, Commandments, Statutes and Judgments, but he didn't have the Priesthood "works of the Law" that was "ADDED" 430 years after him.

One of the many questions I asked you that you refused to acknowledge or answer, was to show me what "Works of the Law" Moses required for justification/forgiveness.

Had you shown the common courtesy of answering the question I asked, you would clearly see what the "Works of the Law" the Pharisees were still requiring for Justification.

Gal. 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Were they given God's Spirit because they took a goat to the Levite Priest, or because they repented and turned to the God of the Bible as Jesus instructed?

Your preaching that there was no Law before Moses is foolishness, and yet, there are "many" who come in Christ's Name, that preach just that.

Ask yourself, what was the "Law" Paul is speaking to "ADDED" too? Because of Transgression of what?

Of course, you would have to be interested in the answer before you ask it.

 

[Studyman]

I appreciate your posting on this thread. You have brought to attention "Many" deceptions being taught in the religions of the land we were born into. I know it's a lot to tackle, and your flesh will be pushing you to just follow the religions of this world. My hope is that you do the study, answer the questions then trust the God of the Bible.. When you do, you will understand why Jesus warned us about being deceived by "MANY" who come in His Name, claiming HE is Truly the Christ, but are really here to deceive us.

Matt. 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many.

There is only one religion on this planet that fits this description. Not Islam, not the Jews, not Atheism. But Jesus warns of deceivers in "Christianity". It's in your own bible.

 

[EmethAlethia]

Gal 5:1 It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery. 2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. 3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. 4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love. 7 You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth? 8 This persuasion did not come from Him who calls you. 9 A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough. 10 I have confidence in you in the Lord that you will adopt no other view; but the one who is disturbing you will bear his judgment, whoever he is. 11 But I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? Then the stumbling block of the cross has been abolished. 12 I wish that those who are troubling you would even mutilate themselves. 13 For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

 

[Studyman]

Gal 5:1

This thread is for examining the many Prophesied deceptions promoted by the religions of this world. Although it is rude an un-Christlike to ignore someone who posts Scriptures and Asks questions as you have done to me since you first replied to this thread, and also very frustrating to be treated like that, I must not return evil for evil. So I will continue to examine the Scriptures you post, because their might be someone who is reading along that is interested in honest, unbiased examination of Scriptures, even though you obviously are not.

It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.

According to Paul, Before a man repents, he is held in bondage to sin and death because we were "children of Disobedience".

Eph. 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

We were slaves to Sin.

Rom. 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

But those who "Obeyed from the heart" that form of doctrine that was delivered from Jesus, AKA "The Gospel of Christ", are "Freed" from this Yoke of bondage.

18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

This is the Yoke of slavery Jesus set us free from, At least according to Paul's Words.

22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

So in the beginning of Gal. 5, Paul is reminding the Galatians to stand fast in their Freedom from Sin, and not return to the slavery of Sin and death. Mainstream Religions of this world preach that the Instructions of God is the Yoke of Bondage. This is a popular, yet insidious lie about God. Paul doesn't teach this which is clearly evident for those seeking the Truth.

2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. 3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. 4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Earlier in Galatians Paul is speaking about the Mainstream preachers of the world he was born into that he "used" to follow. He called them the "circumcision" through out his other Letters, and the Gentiles were called the "UnCircumcision" as the Scripture below confirms.

Eph. 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

Paul was a member of this religion called the "circumcision" before he was converted as he tells the Galatians in the first part of his letter..

Gal. 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.

He learned from Jesus, about the religious traditions of this religion called the "circumcision"..

Matt. 23:4 For they (Pharisees, who were Bewitching the Galatians) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

And again;

15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

And again;

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

This religion, whose Traditions caused those who follow them to Transgress God's commandments, was trying to Convert the Galatians to their religion. They had created a religion which was centered around their version of the Old Priesthood which was in place before our New High Priest came. It focused on tithing and sacrificial "works of the Law" of Forgiveness which was put in place by Moses "Till the Seed should come" (Gal. 3:19) This Law was to lead the Jews to the True Lamb of God, but they corrupted the Covenant of Levi and lost sight of the reason for these Sacrificial "works". Since they didn't believe Jesus was the Messiah, they were still promoting these "Works of the Law" for justification, that had become obsolete since the Lamb of God had came, and were trying to get the Galatians to follow their religious Philosophy.

Paul is rebuking these Galatians for listening to them.

Gal. 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Paul is explaining to them that if they reject the Blood of the Lamb of God, and rely on these sacrificial "Works of the Law" for forgiveness, then they are required to be Sin Free (Keep the Whole law) because the Blood of bulls and Goats can not take away sin. Therefore, if they reject the Blood of the Christ, and are still relying on these Sacrificial "works" for atonement, (found in Lev. 4) they have fallen from Grace.

5 For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.

Paul is repeating his belief that Jew or Gentile means nothing, but belief/Faith in the God of the Bible. He says the same thing in 1 Cor. 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Keeping the Commandments of God stops them from returning to the Yoke of Bondage they were held under when they were Children of Disobedience, and slaves to Sin (Transgression of God's Commandments) A Bondage Jesus Freed them from, as Paul also tells teaches.

7 You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth? 8 This persuasion did not come from Him who calls you. 9 A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough. 10 I have confidence in you in the Lord that you will adopt no other view; but the one who is disturbing you will bear his judgment, whoever he is.

This teaching to follow the Mainstream Religion of their time didn't come from God. Paul warns that believing even a little bit of the religious philosophies of this world will spread through out your entire mind. He is hopeful that God will help them, and sending Paul to rebuke and inform them of the danger of these mainstream preachers was surely God's Way of helping them, and me, no doubt. I thank God for that.

11 But I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? Then the stumbling block of the cross has been abolished.

Paul is pointing out again, that he isn't teaching the religious philosophies of the mainstream religions of that time any more. They hated him just as they hated Jesus.

12 I wish that those who are troubling you would even mutilate themselves. 13 For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

Paul is repeating the Word's of the Christ here.

Mark 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?

29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
When a man learns from God how to Love Him, and how to Love thy neighbor as they self, he will not reject God's Words, create images of God in the likeness of men, create man made high days, he will not steal from others, lie to others, cheat others etc.

Jesus made them "Free from Sin" only don't use this Freedom to feed the Flesh that was supposed to be Crucified with Christ, causing us to return to the Yoke of slavery Jesus freed us from.

 

[EmethAlethia]

Let's stick to the letter at hand and examine the context.

Gal 2:3 But not even Titus, who was with me, though he was a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised. 4 But it was because of the false brethren secretly brought in, who had sneaked in to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, in order to bring us into bondage. 5 But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

The Jews were trying to reinstitute O.T. Law into Christianity. Paul, and Paul said no.

Gal 2:11 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision. 13 The rest of the Jews joined him in hypocrisy, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy. 14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, "If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?

Adding the law, i.e. doing the O.T. works, is hypocritical and heretical. The truth of the gospel is that is completed except for the legal aspects of societal law, i.e. the law is for law breakers. Commit murder and use the bible for the consequences. Commit adultery … consequences …

Gal 2:15 "We are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles; 16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified. 17 "But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? May it never be! 18 "For if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a transgressor. 19 "For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God. 20 "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. 21 "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

Gal 3:1 You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? 2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

The law is the fleshly part. The works of the law are not to be a part of Christianity. The laws about consequences for stealing, yes. The societal part is still in play. Not superstition, not keeping a specific day for the Sabbath, not all the feasts, high days, tithe …

Those in Christ are no longer under the curse of the law. If you reestablish the law you must keep every part PERFECTLY or you are condemned again.

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM." 11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH." 12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM." 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us--for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE"-- 14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Gal 3:19 Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made. 20 Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one. 21 Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law.

The law was a mediator given for a period of time, but it gives no life and only offers condemnation to everyone who does not fulfill it perfectly. Christ did that.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

The law was only a tutor to lead us to Christ. It wasn’t meant to be forever. Yes, do not murder, Yes, do not commit adultery. These are crimes, and that part of the Law SHOULD still be in play. The law is for law breakers. Not for us who are following ' law. Love thy neighbor as thyself.

Gal 4:21 Tell me, you who want to be under law, do you not listen to the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman. 23 But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise… 28 And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also. 30 But what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN." 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.

Gal 5:1 It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery. 2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. 3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. 4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

If you try and reinstitute the law you must keep every last iota of it, and you are severed from Christ. You have fallen from grace. You are back under a tutor, back under a mediator who can only condemn you.

Gal 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love. 7 You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth? 8 This persuasion did not come from Him who calls you. 9 A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough…

Circumcision means nothing, holding to a specific day, i.e. the Sabbath means nothing, nor does not holding to it. It’s gone … if you are in Christ. You want the law, the law Christ wants Christians to follow diligently, here it is …

Gal 5:11 But I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? Then the stumbling block of the cross has been abolished. 12 I wish that those who are troubling you would even mutilate themselves. 13 For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

If you are still teaching Circumcision, you are not teaching the doctrine of the bible. No, this not an excuse for “lawless living” because the law is still for law breakers, but that is societal law. For criminals. Those following Christ’s law aren’t going to be in that category.

Gal 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17 For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. 19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.

That’s the point, even the societal law part is not really Christians, and if that is where you are, “; against such things there is no law.”

 

[Studyman]

Let's stick to the letter at hand and examine the context.

You posted Gal. 5. That was the Letter YOU POSTED. I stuck to the Letter at hand just as I have answered and replied to every post you made so far. While you are purposely ignoring my posts, as if I don't even exist. Is this how you love your neighbor in your religion?

Gal 2:3 But not even Titus, who was with me, though he was a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised. 4 But it was because of the false brethren secretly brought in, who had sneaked in to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, in order to bring us into bondage. 5 But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

The Jews were trying to reinstitute O.T. Law into Christianity. Paul, and Paul said no. [/QUOTE]

No they were not. The Jews had rejected God's Commandments. They "SAID" they were teaching the Law of Moses, but they "DID NOT" If you were to believe in the Word's of the Christ of the Bible, you would understand this. Please show me which one of these verse you believe is a lie.

Matt. 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (Not God)

John 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

Matt. 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

4 For they (Pharisees, not God) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Matt. 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

I could go on and on. You are furthering an insidious falsehood about the Jews religion. They were not trying to get others to obey God. to preach such falsehoods is to reject EVERY WORD Jesus said about them. You are free to reject the Christ, I will not.

Gal 2:11 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision. 13 The rest of the Jews joined him in hypocrisy, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy. 14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, "If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?

Adding the law, i.e. doing the O.T. works, is hypocritical and heretical. The truth of the gospel is that is completed except for the legal aspects of societal law, i.e. the law is for law breakers. Commit murder and use the bible for the consequences. Commit adultery … consequences … [/QUOTE]

If there is a Law that says "Don't steal", and I am not a thief, then this Law is not for me. It is still a Law, my obedience doesn't make the Law Void. It's just that the Law has no power over me unless I Transgress it.

Again, you are denying the very Word's of the Christ who explains the Jews religion, and so does Paul. What does it mean to "Live like a Jew"? What did the Christ of the Bible tell you about how the Jews Lived? Were the obedient servants of God, or did the teach for doctrines the Commandments of men? Was it against God's Law to eat with a Gentile? Or was it against the religious tradition of the Jews?

Of course, you will refuse to answer these questions and i understand why. Jesus tells me.

You do this to preserve your religious philosophy. This is why you can't respond to my posts, nor answer the questions I pose. To do so, would expose the lies, or darkness in your mind. And religious men love Darkness, so they don't "come to the Light" for fear it will expose them. I cling to the LIGHT of Christ because I want the darkness exposed. Even when it is humiliating. It is painful for awhile, but the Truth sets us free from this darkness. It's just that most don't really believe in the Christ, rather, they place their trust and faith in their religious philosophies of this world. I mean no disrespect here, but you are showing what is precious to you. And it isn't the Word's of the Christ of the Bible. If it was you would understand that the Jews were not trying to "Institute" the Commandments of God.

Gal 2:15 "We are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles; 16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified. 17 "But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? May it never be! 18 "For if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a transgressor. 19 "For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God. 20 "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. 21 "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

Gal 3:1 You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? 2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

The law is the fleshly part.

That is your religious philosophy, not the Christ's or Paul's.

Rom. 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Again, you are preaching in direct contradiction of Paul, Jesus and the God Abraham.

I can show you the Scriptures, but I can't make you belief them.

The works of the law are not to be a part of Christianity.

This is true. God's People are not "justified" by the Works of the Law. They have aways been justified by Faith. These "Works of the Law" for forgiveness/justification were to be in place "Till the true High Priest should come."

If you would just stop being so rude, and answer the question regarding what Moses required for forgiveness in the Law and Prophets, you would see what Paul is speaking about. i really don't understand your rudeness, nor your lack of interest in finding the answer to these questions I ask.

The laws about consequences for stealing, yes. The societal part is still in play. Not superstition, not keeping a specific day for the Sabbath, not all the feasts, high days, tithe …

Stealing is a Sin, it has absolutely nothing to do with the "Works of the Law" for justification. These "Works of the Law" were "ADDED" "BECAUSE" of stealing. They were ADDED TO the Law which says "Thou shall not steal".

Those in Christ are no longer under the curse of the law. If you reestablish the law you must keep every part PERFECTLY or you are condemned again.

No, there is never even one place in the Bible where "Stealing" became a Non-Sin. You can not, and will not find any place where it is OK with the Christ to "Steal". To sy you can is another insidious lie. It never left, it is still there. There is, nor was there ever anyone one trying to "Reestablish" the Law against Stealing because it never left. What the Jews were trying to "Reestablish" was the Levitical Priesthood "Works of the Law" for forgiveness.

I asked you to show me what the "works of the Law" for forgiveness given by Moses was. I even told you the Chapter they were in, Lev. 4, so you could see for yourself. but you refused to even Look. The "Work's of the Law" for justification found in the Law and Prophets have nothing to do with Stealing, or killing or the Sabbaths at all. Transgressing these things are "Sins". Everyone has sinned. What does Moses say a man who sinned is required to do prior to the Messiah coming? If you were interested in the Truth you would look for yourself. And if you loved your neighbor as yourself you would answer my questions.

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM." 11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH." 12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM." 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us--for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE"-- 14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

What Law Justified them before the Seed came?

Gal 3:19 Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made. 20 Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one. 21 Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law.

The law was a mediator given for a period of time, but it gives no life and only offers condemnation to everyone who does not fulfill it perfectly. Christ did that.

What was this Law ADDED to? What was being "Transgressed"? You don't know what you are even talking about. And the Scriptures that could help you, you refuse to even acknowledge.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

The law was only a tutor to lead us to Christ. It wasn’t meant to be forever. Yes, do not murder, Yes, do not commit adultery. These are crimes, and that part of the Law SHOULD still be in play.

How does the Law against murder lead a man to Christ?

The law is for law breakers. Not for us who are following ' law. Love thy neighbor as thyself.

Your obedience, Zacharias's obedience, Jesus obedience, Simion's obedience didn't make the Law against murder Void. It's still there.

Again, I will ask you again.
Will you continue your rudeness and disrespect to a man who has only tried to help you?

"What LAW did Moses Give that men were to be justified for following? Did Moses say "If a man sins, he shall love his neighbor as himself, and his sins are forgiven"? NO. The Jews were not trying to preach this Law.

Did Moses say "If a man sins he shall keep the Sabbath Holy and his sins shall be forgiven?" NO, the Jews in Paul's time were not preaching this.

So What did Moses say was required "BY LAW" before forgiveness/justification could be granted?

It is THIS LAW that Abraham didn't have. Abraham had God's Laws, Commandments, Statutes, and Judgments, but THIS LAW wasn't "ADDED" until 430 years after Abraham. It was ADDED to Something, because of "TRANSGRESSION" of Something.

I am done here until you offer some semblance of basic common respect and decency.

I have been patient with you, suffering your rudeness for days now.

If you can't answer some simple questions, or engage with me in some way, then don't bother continuing.

 

[anetazo]

Good documentation by brethren. One we did miss. Is self deception. What do you mean ?? Many people have price, $$. Revelation chapter 13, satan as antichrist will come 6th trump. Whole world will worship antichrist, except the saints, that's Jesus Election. Romans chapter 11, the election won't bow knee to baal. Daniel chapter 11:21 to the end, is about antichrist. Satan policy is to buy people off. Its written in verse 24, he shall enter peacefully even upon the fattest places of the provinces; and he shall do that which his father's have not done, nor his fathers, father's; he shall scatter among them the prey and spoil and riches; yea, and he shall forecast his devices against the strong holds, even for time. Satan's policy is to but people off. To spread the wealth. Let's be honest. Lot of folks have a price. I'm in deep debt. Antichrist will offer to clear that debt. In exchange for worship. I have mortgage payments I can't afford. Antichrist will pay it off, if he's worshipped. Get the picture. Many people have price $$. I documented this and told the truth. Self deception is destructive. Satan study's people, he knows their weaknesses.