Deceiving and being deceived

[Studyman]

2 Tim. 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Paul is continuing and furthering the warnings throughout the Bible about religious men who are either being deceived, or deceiving others.

Deceived means to believe something that isn't true. To deceive someone is to convince them to believe something that isn't true.

When speaking about the Holy Scriptures, it would mean teaching or believing something about the Word of God that is untrue.

Deception is a difficult condition to deal with as the very definition of deceive means to either "convince" or "believe" something. If we believe something, we believe it. For a man to tell me something I "believe" isn't true is a hard thing to accept. Nevertheless, the Scriptures teach we are all deceived at some point, and I believe we all carry deceptions that God, through the Word of God which became Flesh, (Holy Scriptures) is exposing in the race HE has set before us.

I have found that the father of deception, that is satan, deceives by convincing us at the very foundation of our belief things which are not true about God's Word. I think this way based on the first example of deception given us in the Holy Scriptures. satan set about to cleverly convince Eve that God lied to her right off the bat. Once that seed (Leaven) is planted, the rest is simple.

Paul is telling Timothy that even though satan uses God's Word to deceive others, it can't use them all, because to do so would expose it. So it must pick and choose the Word's of God it uses, while omitting the parts of God's Word which would expose it's deception. I think this is why Paul said "All" Scriptures are inspired by God.

I have literally hundreds of examples of this very thing shown in the religious doctrines of the land. But I will only examine one scripture satan uses to convince folks in their mind that the God of the Old Testament led them astray.

Matt. 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

There are many religious men, leaders and owners of huge religious franchises who preach to the world that Jesus is speaking about God and Moses when HE says "them of old time".

Never mind the Biblical fact that Jesus just addressed the "righteousness" of the Pharisees and scribes in the proceeding verse. Nor the Biblical Fact that Jesus always addressed the God of the OT as His "Father" or God. Nor the biblical Fact that HE just got through telling us the Law and Prophets will be here as long as heaven and earth remain.


And yet, I will guarantee there are religious men on this forum who "believe" Jesus is speaking about God and Moses when He says "Them of Old Time". They are convinced that Jesus is saying "God and Moses told you one thing, But I am telling you another".

This belief is at the very core of many religions today. As a foundation, every scripture is influenced by this belief.

Jesus is speaking about the "Shepherds of old time". Those who led God's People astray the Christ inspired Jeremiah to tell us about in Jer. 50. The Priests who broke the Covenant given to them on Mt. Sinai that Malachi speaks about in chapter 2.

The truth is the Scribes and Pharisees "omitted" much of God's Word in their religion.

Matt. 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

God said "Though shall not kill", and the mainstream preachers of "old time" taught that. But God also said;

Lev. 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

So the truth is the "Them of old time" Jesus is referring too, is not God and Moses as most religions of this land preach. Rather, the Scribes and Pharisees of old time. To teach Jesus is adding to God's Word, or changing God's Word in Matt. 5 is a "deception", a lie about Jesus and a lie about God. If a man is interested in the truth they can can go down the line of the teaching of "them of old time" and you will find the Law and Prophets taught the exact same thing as Jesus taught. He separated Himself as High Priest. He is telling us "they preach part of God's Word, but I live by "Every Word which proceeds from the mouth of God".

This is what Jesus exposed in the mainstream preachers of His Time. Deceptions that they were believing and teaching. They didn't like it much, just as some of you are getting defensive, and angry, and are trying to find ways to defend this doctrine that teaches the "them of old time" was God.. The problem is what does it mean to accept the truth here? How much of religious doctrine is founded on the belief that God's Word was incomplete and Jesus came to change it in Matt. 5?

This is what happened to Eve. She was convinced she was already saved, that she would surely not die. Every choice she made after that was founded on the belief that God lied to her, and the belief in the "other religious voice" which convinced her that God's Commandment made her blind.

My hope is to open up to others the existence of deceptions in the religions of the land for discussion, so we can turn from them and be healed.

 

[Halbhh]

Useful! Also, I'd add that anyone that has some interpretation of some verse based on using (the sometimes ambiguous wording of) the KJV or even the ASV (which this site uses for it's auto-linking), they really should read that verse they keep relying on in other translations, such as the precise ESV, or other modern translations, where many have carefully reviewed the original texts and translated the exact sense of wording.

But, when someone is just in a mental place where they insist "KJV only", then one way to help them could be to ask them to look at an entire chapter or related cross reference verses. All the scripture fits together and reinforces its messages. Then the weight of many verses together can help make that 1 verse in the KJV vernacular more clear to them. It's a cooperative friendly approach, to reason together. One doesn't have to 'win' such a discussion, and the Word itself is the seed, which will itself grow over time, in ways we can't know, so we needn't convince them today, often, but simply bring in full passages in that friendly way, and the truth wins over time, on its own.

 

[BobRyan]

2 Tim. 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Paul is continuing and furthering the warnings throughout the Bible about religious men who are either being deceived, or deceiving others.

Deceived means to believe something that isn't true. To deceive someone is to convince them to believe something that isn't true.

When speaking about the Holy Scriptures, it would mean teaching or believing something about the Word of God that is untrue.

Deception is a difficult condition to deal with as the very definition of deceive means to either "convince" or "believe" something. If we believe something, we believe it. For a man to tell me something I "believe" isn't true is a hard thing to accept. Nevertheless, the Scriptures teach we are all deceived at some point, and I believe we all carry deceptions that God, through the Word of God which became Flesh, (Holy Scriptures) is exposing in the race HE has set before us.

I have found that the father of deception, that is satan, deceives by convincing us at the very foundation of our belief things which are not true about God's Word. I think this way based on the first example of deception given us in the Holy Scriptures. satan set about to cleverly convince Eve that God lied to her right off the bat. Once that seed is planted, the rest is simple.

Paul is telling Timothy that even though satan uses God's Word to deceive others, it can't use them all, because to do so would expose it. So it must pick and choose the Word's of God it uses, while omitting the parts of God's Word which would expose it's deception. I think this is why Paul said "All" Scriptures are inspired by God.

I have literally hundreds of examples of this very thing shown in the religious doctrines of the land. But I will only examine one scripture satan uses to convince folks in their mind that the God of the Old Testament led them astray.

Matt. 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

There are many religious men, leaders and owners of huge religious franchises who preach to the world that Jesus is speaking about God and Moses when HE says "them of old time".

Never mind the Biblical fact that Jesus just addressed the "righteousness" of the Pharisees and scribes in the proceeding verse. Nor the Biblical Fact that Jesus always addressed the God of the OT as His "Father" or God. Nor the biblical Fact that HE just got through telling us the Law and Prophets will be here as long as heaven and earth remain.


And yet, I will guarantee there are religious men on this forum who "believe" Jesus is speaking about God and Moses when He says "Them of Old Time". They are convinced that Jesus is saying "God and Moses told you one thing, But I am telling you another".

This belief is at the very core of many religions today. As a foundation, every scripture is influenced by this belief.

Jesus is speaking about the "Shepherds of old time". Those who led God's People astray the Christ inspired Jeremiah to tell us about in Jer. 50. The Priests who broke the Covenant given to them on Mt. Sinai that Malachi speaks about in chapter 2.

The truth is the Scribes and Pharisees "omitted" much of God's Word in their religion.

Matt. 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

God said "Though shall not kill", and the mainstream preachers of "old time" taught that. But God also said;

Lev. 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

So the truth is the "Them of old time" Jesus is referring too, is not God and Moses as most religions of this land preach. Rather, the Scribes and Pharisees of old time. To teach Jesus is adding to God's Word, or changing God's Word in Matt. 5 is a "deception", a lie about Jesus and a lie about God. If a man is interested in the truth they can can go down the line of the teaching of "them of old time" and you will find the Law and Prophets taught the exact same thing as Jesus taught. He separated Himself as High Priest. He is telling us "they preach part of God's Word, but I live by "Every Word which proceeds from the mouth of God".

This is what Jesus exposed in the mainstream preachers of His Time. Deceptions that they were believing and teaching. They didn't like it much, just as some of you are getting defensive, and angry, and are trying to find ways to defend this doctrine that teaches the "them of old time" was God.. The problem is what does it mean to accept the truth here? How much of religious doctrine is founded on the belief that God's Word was incomplete and Jesus came to change it in Matt. 5?

This is what happened to Eve. She was convinced she was already saved, that she would surely not die. Every choice she made after that was founded on the belief that God lied to her, and the belief in the "other religious voice" which convinced her that God's Commandment made her blind.

My hope is to open up to others the existence of deceptions in the religions of the land for discussion, so we can turn from them and be healed.

Mark 7:6-13 is another example where Jesus condemns deceptive teaching

 

[Studyman]

Useful! Also, I'd add that anyone that has some interpretation of some verse based on using (the sometimes ambiguous wording of) the KJV or even the ASV (which this site uses for it's auto-linking), they really should read that verse they keep relying on in other translations, such as the precise ESV, or other modern translations, where many have carefully reviewed the original texts and translated the exact sense of wording.

But, when someone is just in a mental place where they insist "KJV only", then one way to help them could be to ask them to look at an entire chapter or related cross reference verses. All the scripture fits together and reinforces its messages. Then the weight of many verses together can help make that 1 verse in the KJV vernacular more clear to them. It's a cooperative friendly approach, to reason together. One doesn't have to 'win' such a discussion, and the Word itself is the seed, which will itself grow over time, in ways we can't know, so we needn't convince them today, often, but simply bring in full passages in that friendly way, and the truth wins over time, on its own.

thanks for the reply.

I believe God is able to preserve His Truth regardless of the translator. The key, in my view, is the Word's Jesus gave to the master deceiver.

"Man shall live by Every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God". It has been my experience that if a man follows this instruction from the Christ of the Bible, then they will be able to understand His meaning regardless of who the translator is. I'm pretty sure Jesus knew religious men would translate His Word and influence them from their own religious experience.

I find the argument about translations is used mostly by religious men who are trying to defend or preserve doctrines and religious traditions which scriptures bring into question. A reasonable sounding method to divert away from the topic at hand.

But in the example I posted, the same God who said don't kill, also said don't hate your brother in every translation ever written, or at least the dozens of translations I looked at before discovering this religious falsehood.. The same God who said don't commit adultery also said don't lust after another mans wife.

So the belief and teaching that it was the God of the Bible who said one thing, and Jesus the Son said another, is a falsehood being taught to us and our children today. For me this seems to be a big deal, something that matters a great deal.

Exposing these prophesied false doctrines is why I posted the OP. It has nothing to do with various translations in my view.

 

[Studyman]

Mark 7:6-13 is another example where Jesus condemns deceptive teaching

Yes, teaching falsehoods about the God of the Bible didn't sit good with Jesus either. Another great example of deception being exposed by the Holy Scriptures "Every Word of God".

Great addition to the thread.

 

[Halbhh]

thanks for the reply.

I believe God is able to preserve His Truth regardless of the translator. The key, in my view, is the Word's Jesus gave to the master deceiver.

"Man shall live by Every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God". It has been my experience that if a man follows this instruction from the Christ of the Bible, then they will be able to understand His meaning regardless of who the translator is. I'm pretty sure Jesus knew religious men would translate His Word and influence them from their own religious experience.

I find the argument about translations is used mostly by religious men who are trying to defend or preserve doctrines and religious traditions which scriptures bring into question. A reasonable sounding method to divert away from the topic at hand.

But in the example I posted, the same God who said don't kill, also said don't hate your brother in every translation ever written, or at least the dozens of translations I looked at before discovering this religious falsehood.. The same God who said don't commit adultery also said don't lust after another mans wife.

So the belief and teaching that it was the God of the Bible who said one thing, and Jesus the Son said another, is a falsehood being taught to us and our children today. For me this seems to be a big deal, something that matters a great deal.

Exposing these prophesied false doctrines is why I posted the OP. It has nothing to do with various translations in my view.

I'm encouraged by what you say.

I grew up reading the KJV (and read through the full bible in it).

It's my native text, if you like.

Home base.

What I've seen in decades since, decades, is thousands of instances of individual false ideas based on using KJV verses in isolation. It's the preferred translation for such wrong ideas because the verse wordings at times are not clear in isolation.

Because of the unclear wordings (in isolate verse), it's easier to misconstrue than the ESV.

But most could read the KJV through fully, and learn to hear it right.