deceived, saved, and non believer

[Lifelong_sinner]

hello all. i would like to ask about 3 types of people. the non believer, the deceived, and the saved. can you tell me if i have this right?

non believer dont believe in Gods existence, and they dont classify themselves as christian.

deceived are people who believe in God, but arent saved, possibly because of unrepentant sin. they identify as christian, but arent actually according to 1 john.

saved are people who believe, walk in righteousness, know they are saved, and identify as christian.

i was researching church discipline and it would appear that its mostly for the deceived. i think i would actually classify myself as deceived. i believe but i practice a habitual sin daily.

 

[Rescued One]

Even those who are being saved haven't yet gained complete victory over sin; but they regret their sins and ask God to help them overcome each shortcoming/sin.

1 John 2: 3 And hereby we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

 

[St_Worm2]

Hello @Lifelong_sinner, here's an excerpt from one of Dr. Sproul's books that may be helpful.

71. THE ASSURANCE OF SALVATION
Can anyone know for sure that he is saved? For someone to declare that he is certain of his salvation may seem to be an act of unspeakable arrogance. Yet the Bible calls us to make our salvation a matter of certainty. Peter commands, “Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure” (2 Peter 1:10).

It is our duty to seek assurance of our salvation with diligence. This is not done out of idle curiosity about the state of our soul, but to enhance our growth in sanctification. Christians who remain uncertain about the state of their salvation are subject to all sorts of questions that paralyze their walk with Christ. They stumble in doubt and are vulnerable to the assaults of Satan. So we must seek to be assured of our salvation. There are four possible positions with respect to one’s assurance of salvation.

Position One: There are people who are unsaved and know that they are unsaved. These people are aware of the enmity they have in their hearts toward God and clearly want nothing to do with Christ as their Savior. They are bold to proclaim that they do not need Christ. Such people are often openly hostile to the gospel.

Position Two: There are people who are saved but do not know they are saved. These people are actually in a state of grace but are uncertain of it. Perhaps they are wrestling with sin in their lives and doubt their own salvation because of a troubled conscience. In this group are those who have not yet made certain that they are among the elect.

Position Three: There are people who are saved and know that they are saved. This is the group who are certain of their election and calling. They have a clear and sound understanding of what salvation requires and know they have met the requirements. They have believed the testimony of the Holy Spirit when He witnessed to their spirits that they are the children of God (Romans 8:16).

Position Four: There are people who are not saved but confidently believe that they are saved. These people have assurance of salvation without salvation. Their assurance is a false assurance.
Because it is possible to have a false assurance of salvation, how do we know if we are in group three or group four? To answer that we must look more closely at group four and ask how it is possible to have a false sense of assurance.

The easiest way to have a false assurance of salvation is to have a false doctrine of salvation. For example, if a person holds to a universalist view of salvation they may reason as follows:

Every person is saved.
I am a person.
Therefore, I am saved.

Because their doctrine is faulty, their assurance has no firm basis.

Another way that people falsely assure themselves of salvation is by believing that they will get to heaven by trying to live a good life. Those who think they are living a good enough life to satisfy the demands of a holy God are only deluding themselves into thinking they are saved.

But what if a person has a sound doctrine of salvation? Is it still possible to have false assurance? We must answer yes. A person might think he has saving faith but not really possess it. The test for authentic assurance is twofold. On the one hand, we must examine our own hearts to see if we have true faith in Christ. We must see whether or not we have any genuine love for the biblical Christ. For we know such love for Him would be impossible without regeneration.

Second, we must examine the fruit of our faith. We do not need perfect fruit to have assurance, but there must be some evidence of the fruit of obedience for our profession of faith to be credible. If no fruit is present, then no faith is present. Where saving faith is found, fruit of that faith is also found.

Finally, we seek our assurance from the Word of God through which the Holy Spirit bears witness to our spirit that we are His children.

Summary
1. It is our duty to diligently pursue assurance of salvation.
2. Assurance of salvation enhances our sanctification.
3. There are four possible groups or positions regarding assurance:
(a) Those who are unsaved and know they are unsaved
(b) Those who are saved but don’t have assurance that they are are saved
(c) Those who are saved and know they are saved
(d) Those who are unsaved but believe they are saved
4. False assurance is primarily based on a false doctrine of salvation.
5. To gain authentic assurance we must search our own hearts and examine the fruit of our faith.
6. Full assurance comes from the Word of God coupled with the testimony of the Holy Spirit.

Biblical passages for reflection:
Matthew 7:21-23
John 3:1-21
Romans 8:15-17
2 Corinthians 1:12
1 John 2:3-6
1 John 5:13

~Sproul, R. C. (1992). Essential truths of the Christian faith.
​

--David

 

[St_Worm2]

Seeing that you are a Calvinist, perhaps The Westminster Confession of Faith will have some valuable insights for you to consider as well. Here are two small sections of it.

XVII. Of the Perseverance of the Saints
1. They, whom God hath accepted in His Beloved, effectually called, and sanctified by His Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved. (Phil. 1:6, 2 Pet. 1:10, 1 John 3:9, 1 Pet. 1:5,9)

2. This perseverance of the saints depends not upon their own free will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father; (2 Tim. 2:18–19, Jer. 31:3) upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ, (Heb. 10:10, 14, Heb. 13:20–21, Heb. 9:12–15, Rom. 8:33–39, John 17:11, 24, Luke 22:32, Heb. 7:25) the abiding of the Spirit, and of the seed of God within them, (John 14:16–17, 1 John 2:27, 1 John 3:9) and the nature of the covenant of grace: (Jer. 32:40) from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof. (John 10:28, 2 Thess. 3:3, 1 John 2:19)

3. Nevertheless, they may, through the temptations of Satan and of the world, the prevalency of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins; (Matt. 26:70, 72, 74) and, for a time, continue therein: (Ps. 51 title, Ps. 51:1) whereby they incur God’s displeasure, (Isa. 64:5, 7, 9, 2 Sam. 11:27) and grieve His Holy Spirit, (Eph. 4:30) come to be deprived of some measure of their graces and comforts, (Ps. 51:8, 10, 12, Rev. 2:4, Cant. 5:2–4, 6) have their hearts hardened, (Isa. 63:17, Mark 6:52, Mark 16:14) and their consciences wounded; (Ps. 32:3–4, Ps. 51:8) hurt and scandalize others, (2 Sam. 12:14) and bring temporal judgments upon themselves. (Ps. 89:31–32, 1 Cor. 11:32)

XVIII. Of Assurance of Grace and Salvation
1. Although hypocrites and other unregenerate men may vainly deceive themselves with false hopes and carnal presumptions of being in the favour of God, and estate of salvation (Job 8:13–14, Micah 3:11, Deut. 29:19, John 8:41) (which hope of theirs shall perish): (Matt. 7:22–23) yet such as truly believe in the Lord Jesus, and love Him in sincerity, endeavouring to walk in all good conscience before Him, may, in this life, be certainly assured that they are in the state of grace, (1 John 2:3, 1 John 3:14,18–19,21,24, 1 John 5:13) and may rejoice in the hope of the glory of God, which hope shall never make them ashamed. (Rom. 5:2,5)

2. This certainty is not a bare conjectural and probable persuasion grounded upon a fallible hope; (Heb. 6:11, 19) but an infallible assurance of faith founded upon the divine truth of the promises of salvation, (Heb. 6:17–18) the inward evidence of those graces unto which these promises are made, (2 Pet. 1:4–5, 10–11, 1 John 2:3. 1 John 3:14, 2 Cor. 1:12) the testimony of the Spirit of adoption witnessing with our spirits that we are the children of God, (Rom. 8:15–16) which Spirit is the earnest of our inheritance, whereby we are sealed to the day of redemption. (Eph. 1:13–14, Eph. 4:30, 2 Cor. 1:21–22)

3. This infallible assurance doth not so belong to the essence of faith, but that a true believer may wait long, and conflict with many difficulties, before he be partaker of it: (1 John 5:13, Isa. 50:10, Mark 9:24, Ps. 88, Ps. 77:1–12) yet, being enabled by the Spirit to know the things which are freely given him of God, he may, without extraordinary revelation in the right use of ordinary means, attain thereunto. (1 Cor. 2:12, 1 John 4:13, Heb. 6:11–12, Eph. 3:17) And therefore it is the duty of every one to give all diligence to make his calling and election sure, (2 Pet. 1:10) that thereby his heart may be enlarged in peace and joy in the Holy Ghost, in love and thankfulness to God, and in strength and cheerfulness in the duties of obedience, (Rom. 5:1–2, 5, Rom. 14:17, Rom. 15:13, Eph. 1:3–4, Ps. 4:6–7, Ps. 119:32) the proper fruits of this assurance; so far is it from inclining men to looseness. (1 John 2:1–2, Rom. 6:1–2, Tit. 2:11–12, 14, 2 Cor. 7:1, Rom. 8:1, 12, 1 John 3:2–3, Ps. 130:4, 1 John 1:6–7)

4. True believers may have the assurance of their salvation divers ways shaken, diminished, and intermitted; as, by negligence in preserving of it, by falling into some special sin which woundeth the conscience and grieveth the Spirit; by some sudden or vehement temptation, by God’s withdrawing the light of His countenance, and suffering even such as fear Him to walk in darkness and to have no light: (Cant. 5:2, 3, 6, Ps. 51:8, 12, 14, Eph. 4:30, 31, Ps. 77:1–10, Matt. 26:69–72, Ps. 31:22, Ps. 88, Isa. 50:10) yet are they never utterly destitute of that seed of God, and life of faith, that love of Christ and the brethren, that sincerity of heart, and conscience of duty, out of which, by the operation of the Spirit, this assurance may, in due time, be revived; (1 John 3:9, Luke 22:32, Job 13:15, Ps. 73:15, Ps. 51:8, 12, Isa. 50:10) and be the which, in the mean time, they are supported from utter despair. (Micah 7:7–9, Jer. 32:40, Isa. 54:7–10, Ps. 22:1, Ps. 88)
​

--David

​

 

[St_Worm2]

i was researching church discipline and it would appear that its mostly for the deceived.

Hello Lifelong_sinner, assuming that you meant "the deceived" as you defined them in the OP, which verses/passages in the Bible led you to that conclusion?

Thanks!

--David

 

[TzephanYahu]

Hi @Lifelong_sinner

. i think i would actually classify myself as deceived. i believe but i practice a habitual sin daily.

You are missing a 4th option - disobedient.

You can't really claim to be deceived if you know the problem you have. It would only be deception if you were unaware of your error.

Therefore, make every effort to rectify your walk as this is not a game and the Lord could return later today/early tomorrow. So make the change today.

I appreciate that's easier said than done. But all I'm saying is you can't claim deception once you are consciously aware, if that makes sense.

Peace.

 

[NomNomPizza]

hello all. i would like to ask about 3 types of people. the non believer, the deceived, and the saved. can you tell me if i have this right?

non believer dont believe in Gods existence, and they dont classify themselves as christian.

deceived are people who believe in God, but arent saved, possibly because of unrepentant sin. they identify as christian, but arent actually according to 1 john.

saved are people who believe, walk in righteousness, know they are saved, and identify as christian.

i was researching church discipline and it would appear that its mostly for the deceived. i think i would actually classify myself as deceived. i believe but i practice a habitual sin daily.

1) According to Bible there is no person who does not believe God exist , they do but they surpress it in thier evil deeds. If you believe person because they said they don't believe God you're the one deceived not them , they simply lie.

2) No , deceived aren't people who have unrepented sin , they are people who are deceived by another gospel or this world.

3) No , saved are people who are born again not these who show off thier faith by works

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Hi @Lifelong_sinner



You are missing a 4th option - disobedient.

You can't really claim to be deceived if you know the problem you have.

i like this one! But is this used in the NT anywhere?? I think it does ask the question, how do you classify the unrepentant? Or perhaps, how can you get the unrepentant to repent?

 

[TzephanYahu]

how do you classify the unrepentant? Or perhaps, how can you get the unrepentant to repent?

It's a good question! I'm sure Yahweh has seen you ask this on here today, to seek the truth, so good for you in asking such a worthy question.

I think what I have learned from the Scriptures is that the "unrepentant" walk in one of several paths...

Stubborness - Being unwilling to change or yield submission to the Father and His ways.
Self-delusion - Settling the matter as resolved or "okay" in the their heart as they have not yet seen His wrath/judgment/recompense for their actions. This is akin to cognitive dissonance.
Poorly-educated - A victim of poor leadership and guidance (perhaps by the church) which convinces them their okay in their sinful state.
Self-inprisonment - A person loses hope in even trying and buckles under the weight of sin's temptation or power. They can't see that the prison door is open and so remain in bondage, seeing reality only in their chains.

In all the instances above, the person is still culpable for their actions before the Father. Yet He undersands the greater context of sin in a person's life more than I! So I think He will judge the person according to their situation, intellect, resolve and ability. But it's not worth gambling upon really Far better to vanquish sin at all costs as if it were an enemy with claws trying to pull you away from the Father - as that isn't too far from the truth.

But I'm no one special. I still struggle with sin. I'm not perfect by any stretch of the imagination! I definitely need the grace of the Father and Messiah in order to pass judgment day, for sure. But I like to think I have a malleable heart to His ways and try my best to shed all sin.

Therefore, let me conclude by saying this: I think the one who tries, adapts and learns His ways may be comparable to one who succeeds in these things, though they may fall short and stumble. Conversely, the one who gives up trying, adapting and learning, may be comparable to one who fails entirely, though they hope in grace.

I hope I'm making sense! I'm not great at explaining matters clearly. I tend to ramble and make things seem more complicated at times.

Love & Shalom

 

[Joy]

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[Danthemailman]

There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers.