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Debunking Pre-Trib

zeke37

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didn't you say earlier that we wouldn't know when the 7 years of the tribulation begins. you have contradicted yourself and asserted your level of omniscience above all mankind and all the angels.
lol. get real.
the vast majority of Christians shall not know the beginning of the trib....nor the midst...they will be deceived.
they will figure it out when Jesus arrives.

only the elect shall know

or

what you are saying is there is no indication in the bible as to the start of the tribulation nor the middle. if it were, every born again believer would know exactly when Christ's second coming is, but wait a minute, no man knows the day right.
i don't believe that the trib is 1260 days etc.
you might, but i do not.
i believe that Jesus teaches that it is to be shortened for the elect's sake, IMO to the 5 months of Rev9's 5th trump.
I also believe that no angel knows the timing...and that angels give the 1260 number.

but i realize that most do not accept this theory.

for sure the elect/faithfull shall know the season.
for sure we shall not know the day or hour that the heavens pass away....
but the rest is debatable.


did you, or others in the discussion, know that there is a literal time of each Hebrew month, actually between the changing of months...that is called...
the day and hour which no man knows...
supposedly the cusp between months...and a priest had to declare, from visual observation of the moon, when the new month started.

it caught my attention, not that i have fully studied the concept tho.
but it may be this special hour, that is likened to Christ's return.

because for sure Jesus and the OT prophets spent an awfull lot of time telling us of the signs, and that if we are sober and awake, children of the light, we shall not be taken by suprise.

only if one is caught up in the world, will one be suprised by His Coming.
 
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Jig

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but hot rod, let's stay on track...

remember that the rapture in 1Thes4, happens after the righteous dead are raised, and the righteous dead are raised on the last day.

Do you believe in two resurrections or one?
 
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zeke37

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i am discussing this in another thread...
but my current understanding is that Rev20:4 shows a thoussand years,
and i think that 1000 years is the DAY of the Lord.

i think the righteous are raised at the beginning of that day,
as they come with Him from heaven for the gathering.

i think the rest of the dead are raised at the end of the Mill,
for the events that transpire when Satan is once again released from his prision.
Judgement day.
 
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delboy2020

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if the Church is not raptured prior to the tribulation then we would know exactly when Christ's return is. can you explain.

Christ does not return exactly at the end of the tribulation

The sun goes dark and the moon goes red immediately after, which must happen BEFORE christ returns
There is a 45 day window between 1290 and 1335 days
 
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zeke37

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8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
15And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.


1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
 
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