Debating Opponents Gently

[Lizquests]

I just came across this in my bible and wanted to share this with all of you. I know that there are a lot of times in certain threads (and I am also included in on this one) where we get to sound heated, frustrated, etc. Lets all try to remember this:

2 Timothy 14-26: Flee the evil desires of yourth, and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who as haten them captive to do his will.

I just think that this is an awesome piece of scripture to keep in mind when we are communicating not only with other fellow Christians, but also all of the others.

God Bless!

 

[ydouxist]

I need to read that before I go into some of the Shark infested threads.

Thanks

 

[Sharky]

I need to read that before I go into some of the Shark infested threads.

Thanks

HEY!

 

[roseofsharon83]

Good verse. Something most people overlook. What I don't understand is why a Christian would get so mad in the first place at people who have no hope. We have everything while they rely on circumstances in life to make them happy. There is also this verse,

II Timothy 2;16-17b
"Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. Their teaching will spread like gangrene."

again, excellent point!

~Diane

 

[Phoebe]

We need that in interdenominational dialogue.

 

[Rainbow.]

I really do try this approach, but i must admitt i have been tested at times, especailly as some people delight in winding others up until they blow their top.I hope everyone takes note of this and tries much harder. I will be from now on

 

[Lizquests]

I think that the reason some of us get so upset/frustrated is because we want so much for others to have a good comprehension of what God wants us to do. To find out what is pleasing to God.

I have had to walk away from a couple of debates because of all of the sarcasm. I just have to try and remember that it is in God's hands.

I do try to keep an open mind and there are times too when I learn things!

 

[Phoebe]

Strange things happen when human emotions are involved, and faith can be a very emotional topic.
Then you have to take into account denominational differences and how individuals interpret Scripture. It helps to first identify our similarities.

 

[faerieevaH]

A lovely verse, and one we can not be reminded of often enough. Thanks for sharing it again. I can be passionate in discussion, but hope and try never to be sharp or hurtful. Because I believe that if you hurt the one you are discussing with, you already have lost, no matter wether or not your point is accepted.

 

[ElectricStorm]

Look, I don't mean to always quarl but...

There is a time for firmness, no matter what the cost. You can't always address somebody with love and tell them they'll get it someday, you have to be firm.

I've tried addressing Athiests like that, and they don't listen.

 

[James Sez]

2 Timothy 14-26: Flee the evil desires of yourth, and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who as haten them captive to do his will.

I like all of the responses! I think this verse is also telling us to look to Christ and not be subsumed by our own egos. I see a huge battle of egos here at times-people who are bound and determined to win at any cost. I see this a whole lot when Chrisitans discuss differing theological viewpoints. It's a bad example for others to see. I lurk a lot in IDD and sometimes I want to bang my head against the wall.

 

[Col]

I just came across this in my bible and wanted to share this with all of you. I know that there are a lot of times in certain threads (and I am also included in on this one) where we get to sound heated, frustrated, etc. Lets all try to remember this:

2 Timothy 14-26: Flee the evil desires of yourth, and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who as haten them captive to do his will.

I just think that this is an awesome piece of scripture to keep in mind when we are communicating not only with other fellow Christians, but also all of the others.

God Bless!

Thanks Liz, what a great post. Thanks for reminding us that we are all ambassadors for Christ, and what a responsibility that is.

Bless Ya
Col <><

 

[Serapha]

I just came across this in my bible and wanted to share this with all of you. I know that there are a lot of times in certain threads (and I am also included in on this one) where we get to sound heated, frustrated, etc. Lets all try to remember this:

2 Timothy 14-26: Flee the evil desires of yourth, and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who as haten them captive to do his will.

I just think that this is an awesome piece of scripture to keep in mind when we are communicating not only with other fellow Christians, but also all of the others.

God Bless!

Hi there!



Ecc 3:7-8, 14

7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.


14 I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.


At the same time, Christians are told to identify false teachings.


~serapha~

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

I agree that we should approach everything with love, but even Paul said things in his letters like "O foolish Galations who has bewitched you?". I think there is a time and a place for gentle persuasion and a time and a place for heated debate. Please note that I said debate. Once it devolves into personal attacks then it is no longer a debate. I debate frequently with one of my best friends and it does indeed get heated, complete with *grabs Bible and hands it friend* "Show me!". We both enjoy it and nothing is taken personally, but the debate is usually very heated and sometimes even loud. I would expect the same thing here and with the number of people on any side of a given issue I can see why some people would think the spirit behind a healthy yet heated debate could be wrong. In many cases it may even be, and I am probably guily of that myself. What was that, pot, kettle, black?

 

[tulc]

The thing to remember also is the limitations of this way to communicate nuance, lots of communicating is done with body language (most of it isn't even something we realize we're doing) there is almost no "voice" except TO CAPITALIZE and punctuate!!?? and smilies so miscommunication is way too eazy! That's why we should take it slow even when we are convinced we are right, in James 3 (a chapter I was urged to read many many times as a young Christian when my friends used to call me "the Hammer") it says:

3:1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.
3:3 Behold, we put bits in the horses' mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body.
3:4 Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.
3:5[ Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
3:7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
3:8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
3:9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
3:10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
3:11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
3:12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.
3:13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
3:15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
3:16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
3:18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

and always remember think twice, post once!
tulc(Happy New Year by the way!)

 

[endure]

well i think the word OPPONENTS is partly why these quarrels come.
they arent opponents and if we see them that way then we are the ones who are wrong, and if they are fighting like that we need to leave anyway unless you know very well that God would have you say something, but not other wise, becuase solomon said that only a fool rebukes a fool becuase hell hate you if you do, but most of us are fine with that...

and that a man of understanding will conceal knowledge... just becuase something is fale doesnt mean its right to say something.

the thing is, there is a time to stand for the truth, but it has to be done with humility, and you dont ever rail, speak harshly or speak evil of a person just becuase they are wrong and wont turn to the truth, but you stay humble and know that it isnt about you, and know that you too were once deceived and wrong and rebellious also so you have no right to correct them unless it is God himself speaking through you.
paul said that in titus.

to many people take occasions of what they saw the apostles do or Jesus do, and think that gives them an excuse to do certain things.
but you dont do what you saw someone do, you do what God told you to do becuase you dont have the full understanding, you dont know what was going on, how it was said, all you know is "this is what he said" but thats not enough to copy it.

the bible says that the man of God doesnt strive, but hes gentle to all men. not a fighter or a brawler.
thats what God said specificly to us, i dont know why Jesus called people a brood of vipers or why john the baptist did also, and i dont know why paul said some of the things he said to people, all i know is what God told me to do and that is be gentle and never fight or strive, and i also know that with the exception of one of the people i named, all of those men where able to mess up and their just becuase they did things doesnt make it perfect doctrine, at times peter himself had to be rebuked even late in the book of acts. paul said he himself hadnt fully arrived, so you cant take everything he did and think
"ok i can do this becuase he did it" paul had problems too.

aparently theres a time for rebuke, but i dont think we understand how that needs to be done, we rebuke people becuase their wrong, but thats not why people need rebuked.
and untill God showes me a way to humbly rebuke someone so that when its over all eyes arent on me, im just gonna pray for them.
the thing is, why are we willing to rebuke people and contend with people and stand up agaisnt false teaching and debate intensly...but we arent willing to go and pray for an hour or however long it takes, and fast for a few days for that person or issue?
i think it shows we can be decieved and truely think were striving for good and for people, but its really just all about us being seen and glorified.
becuse if we really cared for that person or issue...wed be quicker to run to hours of prayer or days of fasting so they can be changed without being exposed to the world as wrong and humiliated, rather than run to openly rebuke them and correct them where all can see becuase wed care for them and not want them exposed openly, thats embarrassing... and we should care about that. we should rather doit privately, maybe through fasting and prayer, so no one ever knows...and cover and hide their sin, like true love does.

ya know, there comes a time when a person who is struggling with pride or rebbelion, simply will not heed you, no matter what you do or say directly to them so no matter how wrong they are, you dont need to speak.
so if you really do care about the issue and the person, you need to go to prayer for them and even fast for them if you need to, and that shows you really care and that isnt just about you, and thats what really really changes things when you cant doit yourself.

i remember what peter said, that there are people who will not be saved by the word, but rather by our good works and love toward them.
and when wed rather have it the other way, thats pride.

 

[Robert Bingham]

I like all of the responses! I think this verse is also telling us to look to Christ and not be subsumed by our own egos. I see a huge battle of egos here at times-people who are bound and determined to win at any cost. I see this a whole lot when Chrisitans discuss differing theological viewpoints. It's a bad example for others to see. I lurk a lot in IDD and sometimes I want to bang my head against the wall.

Ditto.

 

[Ken]

also, (1 Pet 3:14-17 NNAS) But even if you should suffer for the sake of righteousness, you are blessed. and do not fear their intimnidation, and do not be troubled, {15} but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence; {16} and keep a good conscience so that in the thing in which you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ will be put to shame. {17} For it is better, if God should will it so, that you suffer for doing what is right rather than for doing what is wrong."

I need to learn and relearn and relearn this.... perhaps I spend too much time with the atheists... or perhaps I let my sarcastic sense of humor get too sarcastic.... or perhaps I am still just a sinner still in need of grace...

 

[Lizquests]

That is another great passage Ken. Thanks!