Death Sentence?

[akasmom]

Romans 13(NASB)

Be Subject to Government
1Every (A)person is to be in (B)subjection to the governing authorities For (C)there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.
2Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.
3For (D)rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same;
4for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an (E)avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.
5Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also (F)for conscience' sake. 6For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing.

But here's the question you have to ask yourself about this Scripture: how far do I follow it? What we apply to allowing/following the Death Penatly, we must apply to other areas. We have a civil government that allows abortion. Do we stop our Christian campaigns against it because they have sanctioned it? In some places civil governments sanction the killing of Christians still. Do we cease campaigns to stop that and simply say, "well, God knows what is going on, He'll stop it if He wants to." What do we do about the current war in Iraq? Is it ok because the government said so?
I have worked for Amnesty International and campaigned against the DP in many places (before I was saved). I have heard a lot of arguments both pro and con. Now that I am a Christian, these Biblical arguments pro and con are added to the mix. And here are some observations based on that:
As far as the reason most people seek the DP, it really, at the core, boils down to revenge, not justice. People get very emotional about it. And the NT is quite clear that we are not to seek vengence, that's Gods job. When we look to the OT for direction, we must do it in the light of the Cross and Resurrection. Nowhere in the NT are we told to seek after the death of anyone. In fact, when Jesus was confronted with the question (with the woman caught in adultery) he forgave her and suggested to her captors that they were not qualified to carry out the sentence. Would He really tell us "Go ahead, you are qualifed by My Death Penalty to carry it out on others." Because I thought the whole point of the Death Penalty Jesus suffered was to keep us from receiving the punishment we deserved. I thought mercy was the point. We can put people in jail for life if proven guilty (by a, yes, very flawed system) (and it does in fact cost less to do so than to kill them) and give them the chance for salvation. Didn't Jesus tell us to visit the prisoners? Are we really now qualified by the Sacrifice of Jesus to play God and decide on the time of someone's death?

 

[akasmom]

Who can forget Ananias and Sapphira? Did the Lord not execute the death penalty on them?

The salient thing to remember here is that GOD executed them, not the Church.

 

[JEBrady]

(akasmom in purple)
But here's the question you have to ask yourself about this Scripture: how far do I follow it? What we apply to allowing/following the Death Penatly, we must apply to other areas. We have a civil government that allows abortion. Do we stop our Christian campaigns against it because they have sanctioned it? In some places civil governments sanction the killing of Christians still. Do we cease campaigns to stop that and simply say, "well, God knows what is going on, He'll stop it if He wants to." What do we do about the current war in Iraq? Is it ok because the government said so?

-the purpose of this passage of scripture is to admonish us to be in subjection to the established powers, and to explain to us the reason for that- because they were established by God- he goes so far as to call them his servants. I alluded earlier to pharaoh. He was an evil dude, but God established him over Egypt. The purpose for that was to show His power. We might reason in our natural minds a different way. That’s because God is God, not us. We have absolutely nowhere near enough information to figure what God is up to, but regardless of what it looks like, the judge of all the earth will do right. How far do you follow scripture? You never stop following scripture. When sin is legislated, you don’t commit sin. You go to the lion's den. Or the fiery furnace. If you’re a doctor, you don’t perform an abortion just because a woman says she doesn’t want the child. But when God establishes an authority and gives that authority the power of the sword to take care of evildoers, and you say, “no the counsel of God is not right. We should let evildoers live so they can have more chances to be saved”, then you judge God.

When looking at the OT law, you consider what the NT says about it, which is "the law is for lawbreakers".

James, brother of the Lord, was executed. Peter, on the other hand, was set free by an angel. If God doesn’t want you dead, you ain’t getting killed. Stephen won a Paul in his death. God doesn’t look at things the way we do.

Paul got picked up by the authorities on one occasion. Look what he said (my bold):

Acts 23And looking intently at the council, Paul said, “Brothers, xI have lived my life before God in all good conscience up to this day.” 2 And the high priest yAnanias commanded those who stood by him zto strike him on the mouth. 3 Then Paul said to him, “God is going to strike you, you awhitewashed bwall! Are you sitting to judge me according to the law, and yet ccontrary to the law you order me to be struck?” 4 Those who stood by said, “Would you revile dGod’s high priest?” 5 And Paul said, e “I did not know, brothers, that he was the high priest, for it is written, f ‘You shall not speak evil of a ruler of your people.’ ”[1]

Paul had him dead to rights breaking the Word, but he corrected himself when he knew he was an authority set by God, so that he wouldn’t be found also breaking the Word.

Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. Otherwise my servants would fight”.

I find the Iraq war interesting. It makes no sense to me how we got into it- complete deception. I think, “Well, if God decides to bankrupt this country of its wealth in order to reform this part of the Mideast in preparation for the fulfillment of Revelation, then no one can stop Him”. It’s going to be hard on us, I’m afraid. But if things go completely south, the church needs to be ready to minister the Gospel, because some will be getting freed of their bondage in adversity. The thing is, God gave Bush the election and the congress and the power to do this. How do I know? Because of the very scripture we consider here.

I have worked for Amnesty International and campaigned against the DP in many places (before I was saved). I have heard a lot of arguments both pro and con. Now that I am a Christian, these Biblical arguments pro and con are added to the mix. And here are some observations based on that:
As far as the reason most people seek the DP, it really, at the core, boils down to revenge, not justice. People get very emotional about it. And the NT is quite clear that we are not to seek vengence, that's Gods job. When we look to the OT for direction, we must do it in the light of the Cross and Resurrection. Nowhere in the NT are we told to seek after the death of anyone. In fact, when Jesus was confronted with the question (with the woman caught in adultery) he forgave her and suggested to her captors that they were not qualified to carry out the sentence. Would He really tell us "Go ahead, you are qualifed by My Death Penalty to carry it out on others." Because I thought the whole point of the Death Penalty Jesus suffered was to keep us from receiving the punishment we deserved. I thought mercy was the point. We can put people in jail for life if proven guilty (by a, yes, very flawed system) (and it does in fact cost less to do so than to kill them) and give them the chance for salvation. Didn't Jesus tell us to visit the prisoners? Are we really now qualified by the Sacrifice of Jesus to play God and decide on the time of someone's death

We don't decide the time of anyone's death. We are the church, not the government. God gave the power of the sword to them, not to us, and warned us we better toe the line. The law is for lawbreakers, born-again ones as well as pagan ones. You’re missing the point. When Joshua asked the angel of the Lord if he was on their side or his side, he answered, “No, I command the army of the Lord”. The point is to be on God’s side. Jesus spoke to the real problem in the case of the woman caught in adultery. Those guys didn’t give a happy clap that what that woman was doing. How do you think they caught her? They knew what she was up to. They were trying to trip Jesus up, and He used the opportunity to call them out on their hypocrisy. The passage under consideration here makes it clear God set up the authority and the power to enforce it. Do I like that? I’m thankful I’ve been spared. I was dead meat under the OT law, many times over. I don’t have a personal opinion any more about the death penalty. I want my thinking to follow the Word. And it’s that simple. Relieves me of a lot of the confusion I see in threads like this. Find out what God says and go with that. It’s what I posted 3 posts ago.

Don’t get me started on abortion activists. Thanks to them, we can’t be anywhere near abortion clinics to minister to the women going in or coming out. By using carnal weapons to fight a spirit of murder, the spirit jumped on them, and next thing you know, they’re out there shooting the doctors and bombing the clinics. Great job! And it’s all because of a lack of understanding the Word of God.

I couldn’t care less about other people’s opinion about the death penalty, Christian or otherwise. God’s word about it is all that matters. It grieves me to see so much confusion on the part of those who name the name of Christ. The simplicity of Christ is obedience. I pay exorbitant school taxes here in order to send my children for satanic indoctrination in the ways of the God-hating liberals who serve the devils exercising authority over this age. I pay taxes to a government who spends the money funding abortions, defiling the land with innocent blood and bringing the wrath of God on this place. So I can’t afford it, but I’m sending my child to private Christian school. But it was done with prayer and I believe God will provide. Only God’s Word keeps me from rising up, big-time. I vote my conscience at the polling place, every election. But I don’t trust that to change things. Most of the time we hardly understand what we’re voting in office. But the effectual prayer of a righteous man avails much. That’s how things are going to change. Not through the arm of the flesh, but by the power of God through prayer.

I hope I’ve made it clear I am not a death penalty advocate. I don’t look for revenge or vengeance, or anything like that. The guys in prison might listen to the Gospel. The Bible tells us in Corinthians to look around and see there aren't too many worldy successful in our number- lame, halt maimed, and I was one. God set up the power of the sword to keep order. We take it away and we end up with...what we got today. Interesting.

With all respect, your question isn’t the right one. I would have hoped you'd have concentrated on what the passage means and answer that.

The salient thing to remember here is that GOD executed them, not the Church.

Whether God pronounces judgment through an angel or man, He is the one who effected it. He isn't responsible for the unrighteousness of the government when they exercise their authority unrigheously any more than He is responsible for our bad behavior when we don't choose to follow His Word.

 

[akasmom]

OK, let me try again, I apparently didn't do a good job before:

Hey everyone! i was just wondering what are your view points on the Death Sentence?

see above for my particular take, for what it's worth, not that that's much

is it biblical or not? i'm not really sure how i feel about it...i know there are scriptures that people use to support both sides of it....

What does God speak to your heart when you ask Him about it? I know all the arguments pro and con, I know what the Scripture says (which can be construed different ways) and what men more learned than me have said (here's an interesting take on it: http://bible.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/MatthewHenryComplete/mhc-com.cgi?book=ro&chapter=013) but in my heart I cannot conscience the taking of another life, especially when the system that would pronounce the sentence is as imperfect as ours is in the application of the DP.

should we sentence someone to death with out giving them the chance to recieve salvation?

well, in this country anyway, people are on Death Row for years before a sentence is carried out, so the opportunity is there (and many of them do in fact come to know the Lord) but whether or not they avail themselves of it is between them and God. Our part there is to do His will in ministering to them and making the Gospel available to them.

and if they do recieve salvation, should we put them to death seeing they could do so much for the body of Christ? now i understand that people can fake getting saved...however i also know that God is big enough to change people's hearts.

that is beyond our control apart from much prayer - which is necessary for all prisoners whether under death sentence or not!

 

[prophecystudent]

I believe in the death penalty.

For the one who posted the complaint about how cruel we Americans are in our prisons (what with the long time between sentence and execution) I am afraid you don't understand the facts of the situation. Those people spend all that time on death row because of appeal after appeal after appeal of their sentence, or their guilt.

Very often those appeals are submitted by people who have no real skin in the game except that they oppose the death penalty.

I, or one, believe our constitution that guarantees a speedy trial. I also figure we should provide a speedy execution of sentence.

Regarding the concern about a person being executed before they might (Might) find Christ, that is the consequence of their actions.

We all face the consequences of our decisions and actions, the criminals no less so. They have ample opportunity to be saved, but refuse.

For prime examples of how man rejects God's salvation check out Revelation. Even when suffering terrible judgements from God, they still refuse to believe, or acknowledge God. In fact, the curse God. Does that shed any light on how hard some people's hearts can be? If, in the middle of the tribulation, mankind still curses God instead of acknowledging Him and accepting salvation, what makes anyone think that simply sitting in a prison cell (with all the amenities) will change their minds?

Fred

 

[prophecystudent]

Admittedly, there have been innocent people executed. However, it does not happen nearly as often as certain branches of our media would have us all believe.

How many innocents must die because our "society" thinks it is better to let uncounted numbers of guilty parties go free because one of them might be innocent?

Take, for example, pedophiles. I keep hearing about the huge percentage of them that are repeat offenders. Something like 80+ percent. Many of them admit they cannot stop themselves, that if released they will do it again. Society lets them out again and again. Clear proof that rehabilitation does not work as often as loudly proclaimed by some in our society.

I am a firm believer in capital punishment for certain offenses. Murder, mandatory rape, drug dealing for starters.

Fred

 

[Godslilgurlalways]

In a sense I think there shouldn't be a death sentence that is only because of two reason becuase you killing/murdering and taking the life of another human. Yes they may have committed the crime put do we have the right to kill them.Than I am like what if they killed like 150 people or something. But doesn't God weigh all the sins the same(not including the unforgiable sin)It's hard to say to only know the real choice would be to ask God about it

 

[JesusFreak78]

Hey everyone! i was just wondering what are your view points on the Death Sentence? is it biblical or not? i'm not really sure how i feel about it...i know there are scriptures that people use to support both sides of it....should we sentence someone to death with out giving them the chance to recieve salvation? and if they do recieve salvation, should we put them to death seeing they could do so much for the body of Christ? now i understand that people can fake getting saved...however i also know that God is big enough to change people's hearts.

You are supposed to love your neightbour. That means you are supposed to live every human being the way Jesus loved us. It doesn't mean you are gonna love the sin, but the person.

If you used just as much strenght to get people saved as we did to sentence them to deat, a lot more people would be saved.

 

[bithiah2]

Hey everyone! i was just wondering what are your view points on the Death Sentence? is it biblical or not? i'm not really sure how i feel about it...i know there are scriptures that people use to support both sides of it....should we sentence someone to death with out giving them the chance to recieve salvation? and if they do recieve salvation, should we put them to death seeing they could do so much for the body of Christ? now i understand that people can fake getting saved...however i also know that God is big enough to change people's hearts.

the Bible says an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, and that whatever we sow, we will reap. i know someone who was murdered and this subject always stirs up a lot of bad feelings for me. so...i say let the person pay for what they did. the person they killed did not want to die, but they died anyway. they could have done a lot for God also.
so, let them pay! if God forgives they are still forgiven but they still have to pay.
bithiah2

barthelia R.I.P.

 

[bithiah2]

I believe in the death penalty.

For the one who posted the complaint about how cruel we Americans are in our prisons (what with the long time between sentence and execution) I am afraid you don't understand the facts of the situation. Those people spend all that time on death row because of appeal after appeal after appeal of their sentence, or their guilt.

Very often those appeals are submitted by people who have no real skin in the game except that they oppose the death penalty.

I, or one, believe our constitution that guarantees a speedy trial. I also figure we should provide a speedy execution of sentence.

Regarding the concern about a person being executed before they might (Might) find Christ, that is the consequence of their actions.

We all face the consequences of our decisions and actions, the criminals no less so. They have ample opportunity to be saved, but refuse.

For prime examples of how man rejects God's salvation check out Revelation. Even when suffering terrible judgements from God, they still refuse to believe, or acknowledge God. In fact, the curse God. Does that shed any light on how hard some people's hearts can be? If, in the middle of the tribulation, mankind still curses God instead of acknowledging Him and accepting salvation, what makes anyone think that simply sitting in a prison cell (with all the amenities) will change their minds?

Fred

they eat and sleep for free, demanding their rights and special foods. now God is merciful to He will have mercy on and i cannot tell God what to do.
but...we reap what we sow. so, let them reap.

barthelia R.I.P.

 

[2shy]

Hi ok i seem to think it not a good thing..for one isn't it up to God to decide when to give life and when to take life..also isnt it also humans who decide if the person is guilty or not..what if they make a mistake...then an innocent person is being put to death. And how is this person going to get to know about God if his life is cut short. I just dont agree with death sentences, I dont think it is bibical ..well i never seen it in the bible ..please correct me if i am wrong. Blessings to all!