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Dear Protestants ... please explain John 1:42

Buzzard3

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So, he might have gotten the name and then the keys, but still not be ready to use them.
My understanding is, the power of the "keys" didn't take effect until the Church was born on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2).
So, I see how Peter possibly is not the only one who got keys from Jesus.
... except your Bible says Peter alone received the "keys" (Matt 16:19).
 
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Buzzard3

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No. The Church Fathers state that the keys are the authority to bind and loose.
... which cannot be achieved without supernatural power.
The only infallible man described by Scripture is the God-man, Jesus Christ.
That depends on how one defines "infallible". The Catholic Church teaches that the supernatural power of the "keys" allowed Peter to be infallibly guided by the Holy Spirit when deciding what the Church should teach (ie, dogma and doctrine) with respect to faith and morals - in other words, the means of salvation, which is the key to the kingdom of heaven.
 
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Buzzard3

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This is purely conjecture on your part and has no support in the Church Fathers
Every Church Father would agree with me that no man could possibly hold "the keys of the kingdom of heaven" without being endowed with supernatural power.
 
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Buzzard3

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Only God can heal. Only God can raise the dead. And yet, the apostles were able to do the same through being united to the God-man.
Exactly - only God can perform miracles, so no man can perform miracles without being endowed with God's supernatural power. Similarly, only God holds the keys to heaven, so no man can hold the keys to heaven without being endowed with God's supernatural power. Jesus gave Peter that power (Matt 16:19).
 
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Buzzard3

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Luke, the author of Acts, spent more time with Peter than his other Apostles
How do know that?

Even if you are right, it was bcoz Luke knew Peter was the leader of the apostles.
 
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Buzzard3

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Peter died. There is no mention of a succession plan
Not everything is in the Bible. The Scriptures came from the Church, the Church did not come from the Scriptures. Therefore I trust what the Church teaches about the successors of Peter as if it were Scripture.
 
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Buzzard3

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One of the great weaknesses of modern Christianity is the concept of a professional clergy whose main responsibility is to keep Christians in the dark and ignorant of who they are in Christ
If that's what you think the Catholic Church does, that is fair dinkum hilarious!
 
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Buzzard3

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Paul was commissioned by the Holy Spirit, not by men. He answered to God, not to Jerusalem.
Galatians 2 says otherwise. The Holy Spirit sent Paul ("by revelation") to the Church leaders in Jerusalem in order that his preaching be examined and approved, after which he was offered "the right hand of fellowship".
 
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prodromos

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... which cannot be achieved without supernatural power.
Which ALL the Apostles received.
That depends on how one defines "infallible".
Not remotely.
Please quote where the Catholic Church teaches the above.
 
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prodromos

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And He gave it to ALL the Apostles in Matthew 18:18
 
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prodromos

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Every Church Father would agree with me that no man could possibly hold "the keys of the kingdom of heaven" without being endowed with supernatural power.
Yet you cannot quote a single one to support your claim.
 
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Aussie Pete

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Galatians 2 says otherwise. The Holy Spirit sent Paul ("by revelation") to the Church leaders in Jerusalem in order that his preaching be examined and approved, after which he was offered "the right hand of fellowship".
And Paul returned the favour by rebuking the infallible pope Peter. Give me a break.
 
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SuperCow

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Oh, I see ... so when Jesus said, "And I tell you, you are Peter" (Matt 16:18), he wasn't actually directly addressing Peter, he was talking to all the apostles.

You can't be serious.

No, obviously "you are Peter" is addressing Peter, but everything from verse 13 to verse 18 is a lesson for all the apostles present. Verse 19 is addressed to all the apostles, all of whom received the keys of the kingdom, regardless of whether Peter received the metaphorical description of rock or not.
 
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SuperCow

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All the apostles were special, but none of them were greater than any other, and were rebuked by Jesus when they argued about it. (Mark 9:34,35)

If Peter or any other Christian was elevated to be leader, it would have violated Jesus own principles. He certainly would not have allowed anyone to give him the title of Pope while he was alive. If he was following Jesus teachings (and I believe he was) he would try to be a servant to others. So whatever reason you imagine that he was given a name that equates to rock is not related to being a leader.

This is why the title of Pope did not exist until hundreds of years later. They were called ministers, and when they were experienced they may have been called elders. Everyone who was able was supposed to be a preacher to spread the faith. To have a hierarchy of Pastor/Bishop/Cardinal/Pope encourages an aspiration to have a title with power instead of a responsibility to serve, and this goes against what Jesus taught about anyone being greater than any other.
 
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Buzzard3

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If Peter or any other Christian was elevated to be leader, it would have violated Jesus own principles.
Which of Jesus' "principles" might that be?

If Peter wasn't the leader, the twelve apostles certainly were the leaders of the Church. Are saying having twelve leaders is acceptable but having one leader isn't?
 
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Buzzard3

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Sorry, but you are making a nonsense of the text. Why on earth would Jesus DIRECTLY ADDRESS PETER in v.18 - "I also say to you that you are Peter" - if Jesus was NOT in fact addressing PETER by was addressing ALL the apostles?
 
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Buzzard3

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And Paul returned the favour by rebuking the infallible pope Peter. Give me a break.
Firstly, the fact remains that the account in Gal 2 proves that Paul was under the authority of Peter and the other Church leaders in Jerusalem.

Secondly, the fact that Paul rebuked Peter does not prove that Peter did not have authority over Paul.

Thirdly, it appears to me that, like most Protestants, you don't understand the Catholic doctrine of papal infallibility.
The "keys" given to Peter not only gave him supreme earthly authority over the Church, they also gave him the ability to infallibly discern (through the power of the Holy Spirit) what the Church should TEACH as truth (dogma and doctrine). Paul rebuked Peter bcoz Peter was not practising what he preached, not bcoz of WHAT he preached.

Papal infallibility ensures that what the Pope TEACHES in the name of he Church is the infallible truth - it does not make the Pope a perfect robot who cannot make a mistake on a personal level. Peter made a mistake on a personal level, so Paul's rebuke of Peter doesn't prove that Peter's teaching authority was not infallible.

Papal infallibility means a Pope can be the worst kind of sinner and hypocrite, but bcoz he has the "keys", the Holy Spirit will ensure that the Pope will not teach error (re faith and morals) in the name of the Church.
 
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Buzzard3

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Yet you cannot quote a single one to support your claim.
I would imagine no Church Father needed to explain what should be patently obvious to any half-intelligent adult.

I recall at least one Church Fathers stating that Peter was given "the keys to Heaven" ( referring to "the keys of the kingdom of heaven" in Matt 16:19) - so pray tell, how could any mere man hold the "keys to Heaven" without God endowing that man with some kind of supernatural power?

This is about the third time I've asked you this question, but as yet you haven't offered any suggestions.
 
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Buzzard3

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And He gave it to ALL the Apostles in Matthew 18:18
In Matt 16:18, Jesus directly addresses PETER - "I also say to you that you are Peter". Please explain why Jesus did that, if NOTHING in verses 18 and 19 apply to PETER ALONE, but to all the apostles.
 
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DamianWarS

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So when was he named Cephas? John 1:42 or Mat 16:18 because those timelines don't agree.
 
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