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Dear Christian, why don't you ...?

S

SteveB28

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I don't believe in evolution because I am a Christian, meaning "Of Christ."

And yet, millions of people who accept evolution are also Christians. This does not seem a very effective yardstick for determining that acceptance, one way or the other.

Christ is certainly no evolutionist. He taught that the Scriptures were the inspired word of God and could be counted on for accuracy. He quoted extensively from the Scriptures and told us that if we didn't believe the words of Moses then we wouldn't believe in Him either. The stories of creation, Cain and Able, Noah and the flood and Lot's experiences were references as historical facts. Jesus, who was there at the time, knows the difference between mythology and reality. If the Lord believes in the special creation of man than who am I to reject it?

How does any of this relate specifically to a justification for the rejection of evolutionary theory? It seems to be nothing more than a very general ontological ramble at this stage.

And for what? Theories of man? Prepositions of those enshrouded in their own convictions for whom everything must have a scientific explanation? The 333 miracles listed in the Bible have no scientific explanation, so we must either reject them all or come to understand that the Creator, not the laws of physics, is the ultimate lord of the universe. If we live in a purely physical world there can be no miracles. The dead cannot come back to life, so how can we call ourselves scientific if we believe in a resurrected Christ? How do we call ourselves Christians if we do not?

And this seems to be no more than a general condemnation of the scientific method. It could be used just as specifically to doubt gravitational theory. Where does it explain a rejection of evolutionary theory in particular?

Do living things change over time? Indeed.

At last!

How else could so many varied species come from the more limited pairs of animals on the ark?

A premise for which no evidence exists - in fact, all available evidence, particularly genetic evidence, refutes such a baseless assertion.

However, as we observe adaptation we can see that it is a conservative process whereby traits are extinguished or accentuated but never newly acquired.

Incorrect. We have multitudes of evidence for the acquisition of new traits in living things. You have some in your own body, as do I.

Experiments to demonstrate evolution only demonstrated that it doesn't happen.

Your problem here is that we have conducted experiments in which we can observing it happen in real time!

I don't believe the evolutionist for the same reason I don't believe the atheist who says "There is no God."

That atheist would be a very rare creature. No one worth his logical salt makes such definitive statements.

I know better.

Thank you, but we are already aware of the hubris of the religious.

God created man.

Baseless assertion. One with which the majority of your fellow Christians disagree.

He didn't evolve man.

Agreed!

Were it different He would have told us.

Yes, it's amazing the number of things he didn't tell us, isn't it? All of his knowledge seems to strike a chronological barrier of about 2000 years ago. Strange - it's almost as if.........

It isn't supposed to be easy to believe. Faith is hard.

"Impossible" would be probably a more useful descriptor.

We are surrounded by people who try to undermine our faith, many of them thinking that they are only educating a poor, misguided soul who has refused to worship at the altar of Darwinism. The true lies not in the rocks, but with the Lord who created the rocks.

I have never met a former religious person who did not lose his faith of his own accord. Perhaps you could show me one of these unfortunate "undermined" individuals?
 
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dad

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And yet, millions of people who accept evolution are also Christians.
Do those christians believe this?


1 Cor 11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.


1Co 15:45 - And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Lu 3:38 - Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.


1Ti 2:13 - For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
 
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lewiscalledhimmaster

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adam-science.jpg
 
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SteveB28

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Do those christians believe this?


1 Cor 11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.


1Co 15:45 - And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Lu 3:38 - Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.


1Ti 2:13 - For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

Literally? I would guess not.
 
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KWCrazy

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And yet, millions of people who accept evolution are also Christians.
Did Christ teach the accuracy of the Scriptures or the accuracy of evolution?
Did Christ affirm or deny the first man and woman as real people?
Did Christ affirm or deny the great flood?
Did Christ affirm or deny Ten Commandments, including the fourth?

That said, Christians can be wrong about a good many things and still be saved by accepting the sacrifice of Christ. Beyond that, though, many who claim to be Christians are not. This forum has had a number of posers pretending to be true believers and spewing heresy, as I'm sure every other forum experiences as well. The Westboro church is a good example of hatred and heresy wrapped up as Christianity.

How does any of this relate specifically to a justification for the rejection of evolutionary theory?
Man cannot simultaneously be created by God from the dust of the earth and evolve from simpler life forms. The world could not be simultaneously created in six days and in billions of years. There could not be a global flood and not a global flood. How can you not see the contradiction?
And this seems to be no more than a general condemnation of the scientific method.
Balderdash! The scientific method is a condemnation to the claims of evolution, which cannot be observed, tested or falsified because the premise of it requires millions of years; which can't be replicated in a lab.
It could be used just as specifically to doubt gravitational theory.
What do you people have against gravity? Do they teach this in "Evolution indoctrination 101," to attack gravitational theory and the laws of gravity any time someone challenges the absurdity of evolution?
A premise for which no evidence exists - in fact, all available evidence, particularly genetic evidence, refutes such a baseless assertion.
I like that. I think I'll use that line next time someone tries to claim that evolution is true.
Ponder a moment how mindless your comment was.
If there exists no genetic evidence of common descent from animals in existence 4,500 years ago, how can you claim evidence of common descent MILLIONS OF YEARS AGO????

We have multitudes of evidence for the acquisition of new traits in living things. You have some in your own body, as do I.
So you claim.
If I share a common ancestor with a fish, can I regain gills?
If I share a common ancestor with a bird, can I regain flight?
If I share a common ancestor with a cat, can I acquire a taste for sushi?
All of these traits should still exist; have to exist because they once existed. What specific traits do you claim we've magically acquired over the years that aren't a simple matter of adaptation to the environment?

Should I blame increasing body mass on evolution, or should I go back and blame increasing gravitational attraction? Hey, I can pick on gravity too.

Your problem here is that we have conducted experiments in which we can observing it happen in real time!
Yeah, how are those fruit flies working out for you?
That atheist would be a very rare creature. No one worth his logical salt makes such definitive statements.
Are you being definitive in that statement?
One with which the majority of your fellow Christians disagree.
If they don't believe that God created man, then on what do they base their belief? Certainly not on the Scriptures, as that is a rejection of Scripture. Sadly, many listen to heretics and others who claim that God used evolution to create the universe.
All of his knowledge seems to strike a chronological barrier of about 2000 years ago.
So you believe that the wisdom of God is limited to what He shared with us? You have a strange opinion of God. All knowledge and wisdom come from God. Of course, if you knew anything about the Bible you would know that a lot of things science has learned were alluded to before.
I have never met a former religious person who did not lose his faith of his own accord.
Most of them I've met have been lied to or betrayed by people they trusted.
It is a fact that I and others have caught people pretending to be religious, opening a thread questioning evolution, then over the course of the thread becoming an atheist. You can tell because they don't post in any other forum. Some people have done it multiple times under different accounts. One even pretended to be a Biblical scholar and spent every post misquoting, misrepresenting or lying about the Bible. The best way to attack an enemy is from within, so many come to forums like these pretending to be a true believer with the sole intent of promoting their own agenda. I guess they think it makes them seem learned and wise to copy and paste what others have written before them.
 
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SteveB28

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Did Christ teach the accuracy of the Scriptures or the accuracy of evolution?
Did Christ affirm or deny the first man and woman as real people?
Did Christ affirm or deny the great flood?
Did Christ affirm or deny Ten Commandments, including the fourth?

I'm afraid you're asking the wrong person. Those Christians say the things they do. Quite frankly, I don't know how they hold two conflicting world views within their brains simultaneously. But they tell us they do. Please go and ask them. They are your people.

Beyond that, though, many who claim to be Christians are not.

Someone appointed you as arbiter, did they?

This forum has had a number of posers pretending to be true believers and spewing heresy, as I'm sure every other forum experiences as well. The Westboro church is a good example of hatred and heresy wrapped up as Christianity.

Conspiracy theory noted.

Man cannot simultaneously be created by God from the dust of the earth and evolve from simpler life forms.

Again we have agreement!

The world could not be simultaneously created in six days and in billions of years.

Bravo!

There could not be a global flood and not a global flood. How can you not see the contradiction?

Oh, I see it very well thank you.

Balderdash! The scientific method is a condemnation to the claims of evolution, which cannot be observed, tested or falsified because the premise of it requires millions of years; which can't be replicated in a lab.

You are confusing the process with the evidence. Yes, the process of the descent of species has occurred over many millions of years, but the evidence which describes that process is observed and replicated daily. Every time a new fossil is examined, every time a new species is discovered, every time a genome is mapped out for the first time, every time a particular characteristic is linked to a particular gene.

What do you people have against gravity? Do they teach this in "Evolution indoctrination 101," to attack gravitational theory and the laws of gravity any time someone challenges the absurdity of evolution?

Choose your own theory. Whichever you select, the diatribe you delivered above could equally be made to fit it. You aren't showing a justification for your mistrust of evolutionary theory - you are railing against science generally.

I like that. I think I'll use that line next time someone tries to claim that evolution is true.
Ponder a moment how mindless your comment was.
If there exists no genetic evidence of common descent from animals in existence 4,500 years ago, how can you claim evidence of common descent MILLIONS OF YEARS AGO????

I think you are deliberately obtuse. My comment was to the effect that all evidence refutes the 'ark scenario'.

So you claim.
If I share a common ancestor with a fish, can I regain gills?

If you have evolved why would you think you had the same characteristics? As it happens, I understand that the genes responsible for gills in fish have expressed themselves as different structures in mammals. I am not an evolutionary biologist, but perhaps one of those present on this site may help here.

If I share a common ancestor with a bird, can I regain flight?

Why would you expect that? Again, my understanding is that we mammals are on an entirely different 'branch' of evolution to that of birds?

If I share a common ancestor with a cat, can I acquire a taste for sushi?

When you have to resort to the ridiculous, what does that say about your argument?

All of these traits should still exist; have to exist because they once existed.

Why? Are you familiar with the concept of a nested hierarchy?

What specific traits do you claim we've magically acquired over the years that aren't a simple matter of adaptation to the environment?

Oh, good grief - what do you think evolution is, if it isn't change in response to the environment!? Sir, I couldn't have torn your argument down more effectively with a wrecker's ball!



If they don't believe that God created man, then on what do they base their belief? Certainly not on the Scriptures, as that is a rejection of Scripture. Sadly, many listen to heretics and others who claim that God used evolution to create the universe.

And yet, Christians they are. And their numbers within your religion are increasing, while your outmoded ideas are thankfully dying out. I don't have a huge number of years left, but it would be nice to outlive the world's last creationist.

So you believe that the wisdom of God is limited to what He shared with us? You have a strange opinion of God. All knowledge and wisdom come from God. Of course, if you knew anything about the Bible you would know that a lot of things science has learned were alluded to before.

Depending upon your reading - an awful lot of poetic licence is used by some in deciphering those texts.

Have you not thought it strange though, that your all-knowing God never let us in on any knowledge beyond that of a first century Middle Eastern citizen? Nothing about the great scientific discoveries to come. Nothing about the breakthroughs in health and medicine. Nothing about the coming and going of various empires. Nothing about the discovery of unknown continents and oceans.

It's almost as if the scriptures were simply written by people who knew no better.


Most of them I've met have been lied to or betrayed by people they trusted.
It is a fact that I and others have caught people pretending to be religious, opening a thread questioning evolution, then over the course of the thread becoming an atheist. You can tell because they don't post in any other forum. Some people have done it multiple times under different accounts. One even pretended to be a Biblical scholar and spent every post misquoting, misrepresenting or lying about the Bible. The best way to attack an enemy is from within, so many come to forums like these pretending to be a true believer with the sole intent of promoting their own agenda. I guess they think it makes them seem learned and wise to copy and paste what others have written before them.

And thank you for conspiracy theory Mark II.
 
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lewiscalledhimmaster

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So God formed Adam but not literally or really? Was it a pretend forming?

muslim-adam-eve.jpg


After they got bit by the snake and died, it didn't take that long for their legend to grow and grow and grow and grow and grow -- it's still evolving -- but we're still learning to let go of the poisonous narrative.

^_^
 
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dad

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After they got bit by the snake and died, it didn't take that long for their legend to grow and grow and grow and grow and grow -- it's still evolving -- but we're still learning to let go of the poisonous narrative.

^_^
Your attempt to try and make fun of the bible?
 
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lewiscalledhimmaster

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dad

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Our ability to tell stories, is apparently part of the reason why we survived the Pleistocene.* :thumbsup:

~~~
* Pleistocene - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

'....Scientific evidence [14] indicates that humans evolved into their present form during the Pleistocene. [15] ....'

14. Genetic evidence on modern human origins. - PubMed - NCBI
15. Publications | Przeworski lab (scroll down)
One can stick a name on a time period, such as the time after the flood when man adapted to the new world, and started to be able to leave remains we now can see.

The actual time involved is purely a matter of belief that is interjected onto evidences we have. Heck I can do that.

The mad conclusions that man changed...therefore man came from monkeys..or whatnot...have no possibility of support. But we can see you believe real hard.
 
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lewiscalledhimmaster

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One can stick a name on a time period, such as the time after the flood when man adapted to the new world, and started to be able to leave remains we now can see.

The actual time involved is purely a matter of belief that is interjected onto evidences we have. Heck I can do that.

The mad conclusions that man changed...therefore man came from monkeys..or whatnot...have no possibility of support. But we can see you believe real hard.

'stick a name'

'belief interjected onto evidences'

'or whatnot'

It's pretty obvious that you don't want to be taken seriously, so I won't.

darwins-tree-of-life.gif
 
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dad

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'stick a name'

'belief interjected onto evidences'

'or whatnot'

It's pretty obvious that you don't want to be taken seriously, so I won't.
Yes stick a name. I have no intention of getting you to take anything of God seriously. Relax. If you have anything hot or cold to say, let's hear it.
 
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SkyWriting

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... accept the theory of evolution as a scientific fact?

No theories are facts. Best answer.

Theories of origins can never be facts.
History is based on faith in the teller,
so is completely faith based. #2 answer.

Facts are individual items accepted as true.

Evolution, change, does happen. True enough.
 
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PsychoSarah

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No theories are facts. Best answer.

Theories of origins can never be facts.
History is based on faith in the teller,
so is completely faith based. #2 answer.

Facts are individual items accepted as true.

Evolution, change, does happen. True enough.

Theory is as close to fact as one can derive from science. And evolution is the most well-supported theory in all of biology.
 
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Oafman

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No theories are facts. Best answer.

Theories of origins can never be facts.
History is based on faith in the teller,
so is completely faith based. #2 answer.

Is archeology faith based?
 
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dad

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Theory is as close to fact as one can derive from science. And evolution is the most well-supported theory in all of biology.
If that encompasses man from animals and a first lifeform, then that means biology is a total crock.
 
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sandybay

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If that encompasses man from animals and a first lifeform, then that means biology is a total crock.

That's only true in your world but luckily for you and me there are people who know better, they are feeding us all and fighting disease on our behalf, we are even able to communicate across the world as we are and we are all living longer because of people who know things we don't.

We don't have to use their technology but it's there if we want it.
 
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