Dear Atheists...

[Davian]

...

You do not find it compelling that we are living in an age of fear, deceit and hypocrisy?

What other ages did you have in mind, for comparison?

 

[WonderBeat]

What other ages did you have in mind, for comparison?

Well, what about an age at which we are living morally and spiritually enlightened lives many times over and beyond anything we see right now? There are records that this in fact was the case millions of years ago. However, the current climate of fear and ignorance has caused us to forget humanity's former potentials, together with many other auspicious things.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Then I say there is something wrong with you.

Why?

 

[WonderBeat]

Why?

Because the normal response should be "I'm scared. What are we supposed to do?"

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Because the normal response should be "I'm scared. What are we supposed to do?"

To what?

And why?

 

[Davian]

Well, what about an age at which we are living morally and spiritually enlightened lives many times over and beyond anything we see right now?

I have no idea what you mean by "spiritually enlightened".

Many times over, and beyond? How did you measure that?

Did not Buzz lightyear say something to that effect in Toy Story?

There are records that this in fact was the case millions of years ago.

In fact? Can we see those records?

However, the current climate of fear and ignorance has caused us to forget humanity's former potentials, together with many other auspicious things.

Such as?

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

I have no idea what you mean by "spiritually enlightened".

Many times over, and beyond? How did you measure that?

Did not Buzz lightyear say something to that effect in Toy Story?

In fact? Can we see those records?

Such as?

I'm guessing she means in Genesis, where apparently everyone lived to be at least 800 years old and they all had children when they were 150 or so.

 

[Davian]

I'm guessing she means in Genesis, where apparently everyone lived to be at least 800 years old and they all had children when they were 150 or so.

She did say millions of years ago, so I wasn't thinking biblically.

I was hoping for something more along the lines of ESP and telekinesis. That would be cool.

 

[Davian]

Because the normal response should be "I'm scared. What are we supposed to do?"

Are you scared? I'm not.

Where I live, and when, is as good as it have ever been, as far as I know.

Wanna try living in a city without flush toilets?

How about when you could die from an abscess tooth, because you didn't floss daily? Don't take my user title lightly.

 

[SonOfTheWest]

She did say millions of years ago, so I wasn't thinking biblically.

I was hoping for something more along the lines of ESP and telekinesis. That would be cool.

If I'm going for super powers it's teleportation. Would make the work commute so much less aggravating.

 

[madaz]

I'm guessing she means in Genesis, where apparently everyone lived to be at least 800 years old and they all had children when they were 150 or so.

I'm guessing she means Genesis also, but maybe not because she is Hindu....

 

[Eudaimonist]

It is true that my evidence adduced is not evidence as you would have it - in that it leads ineluctably to a conclusion as warranted by said evidence. But so what? I have a different criterion of what should count for evidence. Why assume your criterion?

Reasoning about evidence using logic does the best job at helping one to understand reality. It has a proven track record of success, as evidenced by its role in landing men on the Moon. It can be understood and examined, reflected on and questioned, providing the possibility of correcting errors when they arise. It doesn't rely on a blind faith or faulty intuition which can never be challenged.

What is your criterion and why should I assume yours?

You assume it is fantasy mythology but actually I don't think it is. We are living 5,000 years into the age of Kali. And there are 427,000 more years to go during which it's going to get a whole lot worse.

That is precisely a fantasy mythology. We might as well be talking about Middle-earth, or Eden, or whatever. How do you know there are another 427,000 years where things will get worse? How do you know that there is a sea change after that many years?

Besides, this is all relative. We could be described as living in the Age of Health and Happiness, as compared with the misery of millenia ago. I also have no reason to think that all of the things you had mentioned as characteristic of this "age" didn't exist prior to 5000 years ago.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Eudaimonist]

I'm guessing she means Genesis also, but maybe not because she is Hindu....

Hindus have their own nutty ideas about the Earth's past, like creationists.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

You don't remedy a naked assertion by piling more naked assertions on top of it.

Actually you can.

Actually, you can't. The only way to fix an unsupported assertion is to provide support for it.

You've written off evidentialism as your means of doing this, so your task also includes coming up with a coherent, working epistemology.

By making the original naked assertion appear more proven in light of other assertions, you can make connections in such a way that extend outwards in a cohesive theory of reality.

Absolute horse crap.

Watch this:

-I flew to Chicago yesterday by flapping my arms up and down.

-I was able to do this because the Great Cosmic Walrus bestowed me with the ability.

-I know I wasn't imagining the Great Cosmic Walrus because the Great Cosmic Walrus comes from a magical realm called Xbnynxb'chtmfrglm, which is a plane of existence that is above imagination.

-I know that the realm of Xbnynxb'chtmfrglm is above imagination because the Wise Wizard of Gjsqhdeuimzwioq told me so.

-I know the Wise Wizard of Gjsqhdeuimzwioq was telling the truth that the realm of Xbnynxb'chtmfrglm is above imagination because the Ancient Order of Fnrbzmaldkdopwannduq told me that the Wise Wizard of Gjsqhdeuimzwioq never lies.

-I know the Ancient Order of Fnrbzmaldkdopwannduq was telling the truth that the Wise Wizard of Gjsqhdeuimzwioq was telling the truth that the realm of Xbnynxb'chtmfrglm is above imagination because the Mystical Talking Sphincter of Wxhbcuydgywcb told me that the Ancient Order of Fnrbzmaldkdopwannduq only says things that are true.

-I know the Mystical Talking Sphincter of Wxhbcuydgywcb was telling the truth that the Ancient Order of Fnrbzmaldkdopwannduq was telling the truth that the Wise Wizard of Gjsqhdeuimzwioq was telling the truth that the realm of Xbnynxb'chtmfrglm is above imagination because the Great Cosmic Walrus told me so.

At what point in this series do you start taking me seriously?

Nowhere, of course. Naked assertions do not magically accumulate credibility when you pile them on top of each other.

You have all your work still ahead of you.

 

[WonderBeat]

Reasoning about evidence using logic does the best job at helping one to understand reality. It has a proven track record of success, as evidenced by its role in landing men on the Moon. It can be understood and examined, reflected on and questioned, providing the possibility of correcting errors when they arise. It doesn't rely on a blind faith or faulty intuition which can never be challenged.

What is your criterion and why should I assume yours?

I think I am using a better logic than yours. How do you define logic?

That is precisely a fantasy mythology. We might as well be talking about Middle-earth, or Eden, or whatever.

That is simply your prejudice. What makes you think this can't be the exception to the rule?

How do you know there are another 427,000 years where things will get worse? How do you know that there is a sea change after that many years?

The shastras say so.

Besides, this is all relative. We could be described as living in the Age of Health and Happiness, as compared with the misery of millenia ago. I also have no reason to think that all of the things you had mentioned as characteristic of this "age" didn't exist prior to 5000 years ago.


eudaimonia,

Mark

They did exist, just to a much lesser extent.

 

[WonderBeat]

You have all your work still ahead of you.

Actually, I think I'm practically done. Your counter-example to my own is laughably absurd by any stretch and is not what I mean by any means.... Good-bye.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Actually, I think I'm practically done. Your counter-example to my own is laughably absurd by any stretch and is not what I mean by any means.... Good-bye.

In that case, please answer my questions:

To what?

And why?

 

[WonderBeat]

In that case, please answer my questions:

To what? The current Iron age.

To why? Because of its effects.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

To what? The current Iron age.

To why? Because of its effects.

So you're saying I should be scared of the Iron age? Why?

What effects?

And just an FYI...we're so not in the Iron age anymore.

 

[Eudaimonist]

I think I am using a better logic than yours.

What leads you to think that?

How do you define logic?

The art of noncontradictory identification. Logic is a method of thought that verifies that conclusions follow from observations and that one hasn't introduced contradictions in one's thought.

What makes you think this can't be the exception to the rule?

Why should I think that it is an exception to the rule?

The shastras say so.

So? What makes that so logically compelling to you?


eudaimonia,

Mark