Dealing with Creationism in Astronomy! (Moved)

[JacksBratt]

It is good we are still here after plenty of bad or unwise things have been done from among humanity. We could be on borrowed time until an unwise direction in which we are heading does us in.

But we wouldn't be here at all, without there being existence that is necessary, if we can admit that to ourselves. Nothing would exist otherwise, and we or any at all wouldn't be around anywhere to ponder any of that or anything at all.

Creationism provides perspective for explanations that science will otherwise be lacking. None of the universe, with anything of it, explains the universe at all. We each have to accept there is transcendence beyond.

Nothing that man does or will do... will do us in. The atmosphere is not going to burn up.... we are not heating the climate... we will not do anything that will end human life on earth...

I've read the bible and I know how it ends.

 

[RealityCheck01]

No one believes that climate change "will do us in" or that the atmosphere will burn up or that global warming will end human life on Earth. If our heating of the atmosphere continues, it will gain a few degrees by 2100 and will not kill off everyone. There will be people dying because global warming destroys crops, makes the sea level rise, increases wildfires and makes extreme weather events more frequent. The level of the consequences of global warming depends on the rise in temperature. 4 degrees is agreed to be catastrophic in economic terms.
The science is that we are heating up the atmosphere. CO2 is a greenhouse gas that traps heat from the Sun. We have measured that CO2 has increased due to human activity and that matches the rise in temperature.
Empirical evidence that humans are causing global warming
97% of climate experts agree humans are causing global warming

 

[FredVB]

Nothing that man does or will do... will do us in. The atmosphere is not going to burn up.... we are not heating the climate... we will not do anything that will end human life on earth...

I've read the bible and I know how it ends.

Then you are not reading enough. You have other things to read to know what is going on. And... Mystery Babylon will fall. Believers should not be a part of that. But there really is not that much repentance, that would be enough.

 

[FredVB]

Being called our from Mystery Babylon is not about being rapture away. Civilization is being destructive to this world with demands that come from it, especially now with so many of us here. Believers in urban civilization are part of those demands. They should not even be there still, and they should not be waiting for anything if they know they would be called out. Believers should form groups among themselves and leave urban civilization, getting out from cities and live differently, growing things on land for what is needed and using little more, to be having a sustainable way and not contributing still to using more from the world which is destructive so much now.

 

[FredVB]

I do not claim I know or have certainty. I think that life on this earth, and the form to it, is thousands but not billions (American or British meaning) of years old, but the universe with the unformed planet that is now the Earth for us could actually be thousands of millions of years old. I still believe the Bible account then. It is not compatible with evolution of all life, as God made everything and it was all very good (the only place in the Bible anything is called that) and it was without suffering and death, as described, and the perfect goodness and power of God made it that way. Still the world before the acts of creation described in the account was formless, so it could have been there much longer than how long ago there was that creation week remaining formless. The evidences for the universe having been around for so much longer are too strong for me to see that can just be dismissed. But I can see dismissing evolution as nothing for it is overwhelming in evidence for me, that cannot be accounted for with perfect creation from God as described.

Though fallen we are still to be responsible here.

 

[Estrid]

I do not claim I know or have certainty. I think that life on this earth, and the form to it, is thousands but not billions (American or British meaning) of years old, but the universe with the unformed planet that is now the Earth for us could actually be thousands of millions of years old. I still believe the Bible account then. It is not compatible with evolution of all life, as God made everything and it was all very good (the only place in the Bible anything is called that) and it was without suffering and death, as described, and the perfect goodness and power of God made it that way. Still the world before the acts of creation described in the account was formless, so it could have been there much longer than how long ago there was that creation week remaining formless. The evidences for the universe having been around for so much longer are too strong for me to see that can just be dismissed. But I can see dismissing evolution as nothing for it is overwhelming in evidence for me, that cannot be accounted for with perfect creation from God as described.

Though fallen we are still to be responsible here.

Incompatible- the chosen interpretation of Bible text that
evolution is false happens to be incompatible with all
relevant data.

Something wrong here.

Where do you suppose the fault might be?

 

[FredVB]

Incompatible- the chosen interpretation of Bible text that
evolution is false happens to be incompatible with all
relevant data.

Something wrong here.

Where do you suppose the fault might be?

Why don't you tell me what it is? Any example? I certainly have asked questions in threads in this forum, like in Evolution Lesson, which is supposed to be there for that, while never getting satisfactory answers.

 

[Estrid]

What don't you tell me? I certainly have asked questions in threads in this forum, like Evolution Lesson, which is supposed to be there for that, while never getting satisfactory answers.

Of course you have not heard anything satisfactory.
No more than some women will never admit their
little psycho is a serial killer.

She chooses to interpret the surveillance videos,
fingerprints, etc, as being part of a conspiracy
of lies, enemies of her family.
Every single scrap of evidence points to his guilt
but she says her lil Johnny would never do that,
it was someone else they caught gnawing that corpse.

Every single relevant bit of evidence on earth indicates
the ToE is valid, zero against it.
You ain't satisfied.
Fine.
That's on you and your ego.

 

[AV1611VET]

Every single relevant bit of evidence on earth indicates the ToE is valid, zero against it.

That's because anything that dares go against it gets firewalled.

I can claim the numbers from 1 to 99 are only odd numbers, but I would have to firewall any even number first.

 

[Oneiric1975]

That's because anything that dares go against it gets firewalled.

I can claim the numbers from 1 to 99 are only odd numbers, but I would have to firewall any even number first.

What, exactly, has been firewalled in biology that would make evolution a lie?

 

[AV1611VET]

What, exactly, has been firewalled in biology that would make evolution a lie?

Angiosperms before the sun.

 

[Oneiric1975]

Angiosperms before the sun.

Thankfully there is ZERO evidence for that (and it wouldn't even make sense!)

So does "firewalled" mean things you just imagine that no one has any evidence of?

 

[AV1611VET]

Thankfully there is ZERO evidence for that (and it wouldn't even make sense!)

Thanks for the QED.

 

[Oneiric1975]

Thanks for the QED.

So why do you disbelieve evolution?

 

[Estrid]

So why do you disbelieve evolution?

Is this dead thread heaven, or-?

 

[FredVB]

Of course you have not heard anything satisfactory.
No more than some women will never admit their
little psycho is a serial killer.

She chooses to interpret the surveillance videos,
fingerprints, etc, as being part of a conspiracy
of lies, enemies of her family.
Every single scrap of evidence points to his guilt
but she says her lil Johnny would never do that,
it was someone else they caught gnawing that corpse.

Every single relevant bit of evidence on earth indicates
the ToE is valid, zero against it.
You ain't satisfied.
Fine.
That's on you and your ego.

You were impressed with my statements that I would give arguments a chance, listening to them, and leaving it possible that I could change my mind, according to what you yourself said, before. I was not 100% committed to any position of origins, and I know I was asking questions in the right place, though I still just got heated argument against me, for that, but it really left real questions not answered. So it leaves me still thinking those cannot be answered in ways to support the perspective of evolution itself as the origin.

 

[Ophiolite]

You were impressed with my statements that I would give arguments a chance, listening to them, and leaving it possible that I could change my mind, according to what you yourself said, before. I was not 100% committed to any position of origins, and I know I was asking questions in the right place, though I still just got heated argument against me, for that, but it really left real questions not answered. So it leaves me still thinking those cannot be answered in ways to support the perspective of evolution itself as the origin.

Of the questions you have asked that you feel are unanswered, which one do you find most telling? I'd be happy to give a go at addressing it.

 

[Ponderous Curmudgeon]

So it leaves me still thinking those cannot be answered in ways to support the perspective of evolution itself as the origin.

Well we will start with a first question or two. What do you think that evolution is being presented as the origin of?

 

[Estrid]

You were impressed with my statements that I would give arguments a chance, listening to them, and leaving it possible that I could change my mind, according to what you yourself said, before. I was not 100% committed to any position of origins, and I know I was asking questions in the right place, though I still just got heated argument against me, for that, but it really left real questions not answered. So it leaves me still thinking those cannot be answered in ways to support the perspective of evolution itself as the origin.

We wonder what specifically you wonder, with what you are dissatisfied.
Please ask what seems to you a real question.
Sorry about being a bit snippy.

 

[Frank Robert]

That's because anything that dares go against it gets firewalled.

That is the creationists liability as they have not been able to piece a cogent scientific theory that can falsify the theory of evolution. All they do is write apologetics to convince their flock that evolution is evil.