Deadly Head Wound...

[Ronald]

I never subscribed to any of those, Ronald. I don't have a specific candidate for the little horn in mind.

Just ranting, but you do subscribe to a Revived Roman empire/ 10 nation EU Beast right?

 

[Mark51]

The images that Nebuchadnezzar dreamt (Daniel 2) and later explained by Daniel-through divine interpretations-and the beast in John’s vision at Revelation 13:1, 2 are referring to the same thing: kingdoms (Revelation 17:15) that each ruled or would rule their perspective worlds. This same image and its interpretation was partially made known to Daniel-in a vision.-Daniel 8.

The only differences between them is that the image did not reflect two prior world power/kingdoms before Nebuchadnezzar’s reign (Egypt and Assyria) and the last kingdom: Anglo-American.-Revelation 17:10.

The forth kingdom referred to as part of Nebuchadnezzar’s image if the Roman Empire.-Daniel 2:40. Rome is identified as the 6th head of the “seven-headed beast” in Revelation 17:9-11.

The “death-stroke” or sword stroke (Revelation 13:3, 14, 15) is symbolic of warfare. This sword relates to the first world war, which devastated and drained Satan’s political wild beast-Britain and United States.

 

[Douggg]

Just ranting, but you do subscribe to a Revived Roman empire/ 10 nation EU Beast right?

Hi Ronald, yes, the EU having ten kings leaders - but not ten nations. I don't see the EU reducing down from 28 member states to 10 member states. It could happen, but unlikely in my opinion.

The way that they could end up with ten kings, leaders, over the 28 countries is to zone the EU into ten zones, to have the zones comparable in population and cultural similarity, for equal representation. The big countries like Germany and France could each be a zone comprised of just one country.

 

[Ronald]

Mark51,
You left out the next verses which disqualify kings that ruled in the past. All of these leaders of the Beast are given power during the Great Tribulation for one hour. And I suppose are destroyed just as quickly by Jesus.
"The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the Beast. These are of one mind and they will give their power and authority to the beast." Rev. 17:12, 13

 

[Douggg]

Mark51,
You left out the next verses which disqualify kings that ruled in the past. All of these leaders of the Beast are given power during the Great Tribulation for one hour. And I suppose are destroyed just as quickly by Jesus.
"The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the Beast. These are of one mind and they will give their power and authority to the beast." Rev. 17:12, 13

No, I didn't disregard those verses. The person does not become the beast until the last 42 months of the 7 years - which during that period of time he will control the entire world. Those ten European leaders will be ruling the entire world with him. Not just the EU, compared as when he first starts out

When the person first starts out, he will be the little horn leader of the EU. Then he becomes the King of Israel, because the Jews will believe he is their messiah following Gog/Magog. Then he becomes convinced that he has achieved God-hood, betrays the Jews and the Sinai covenant by going into the temple claiming to be God... revealing himself to be the man of sin.

The Jews reject him as continuing as their King, and God has the person killed for his audacious act. After the person is killed, God in disdain for him brings him back alive that the end times can be concluded, which includes the prosecution of Satan and the downfall of his kingdom. Brought back to life that last 42 months as the beast, the original ten kings buy into his claim to be God - reinforced by his coming back alive, which is the strong delusion that God sends in 2thessalonians2 that they should believe a lie.

So the ten kings pledge their kingdom - the EU - to him, now the beast, to carry out his agenda of subjugating the entire world.

 

[Ronald]

No, I didn't disregard those verses. The person does not become the beast until the last 42 months of the 7 years - which during that period of time he will control the entire world. Those ten European leaders will be ruling the entire world with him. Not just the EU, compared as when he first starts out

When the person first starts out, he will be the little horn leader of the EU. Then he becomes the King of Israel, because the Jews will believe he is their messiah following Gog/Magog. Then he becomes convinced that he has achieved God-hood, betrays the Jews and the Sinai covenant by going into the temple claiming to be God... revealing himself to be the man of sin.

The Jews reject him as continuing as their King, and God has the person killed for his audacious act. After the person is killed, God in disdain for him brings him back alive that the end times can be concluded, which includes the prosecution of Satan and the downfall of his kingdom. Brought back to life that last 42 months as the beast, the original ten kings buy into his claim to be God - reinforced by his coming back alive, which is the strong delusion that God sends in 2thessalonians2 that they should believe a lie.

So the ten kings pledge their kingdom - the EU - to him, now the beast, to carry out his agenda of subjugating the entire world.

Totally disagree with your interpretation. No need to go round and round. You are entitled to your view. Islam is on the stage RIGHT NOW! Russia is moving in RIGHT NOW! Three leaders have been plucked out of their kingdoms recently: Saddam, Qadhafi, Mubarek. They are trying to pluck Assad out but it won't work with Russia there. Bin Laden may have been one of the three instead of Saddam but nevertheless, these leaders were significant. A treaty (although not called one) was just made with Iran/Ayattolah. This is the stage being set RIGHT NOW and you are waiting for the EU or some false leader to take over Israel? I don't think so, pal. Please, though, I really don't want to continue this argument, didn't want to last year or the year before.

 

[Douggg]

Totally disagree with your interpretation. No need to go round and round. You are entitled to your view. Islam is on the stage RIGHT NOW! Russia is moving in RIGHT NOW! Three leaders have been plucked out of their kingdoms recently: Saddam, Qadhafi, Mubarek. They are trying to pluck Assad out but it won't work with Russia there. Bin Laden may have been one of the three instead of Saddam but nevertheless, these leaders were significant. A treaty (although not called one) was just made with Iran/Ayattolah. This is the stage being set RIGHT NOW and you are waiting for the EU or some false leader to take over Israel? I don't think so, pal. Please, though, I really don't want to continue this argument, didn't want to last year or the year before.

Well Russia is moving in right now. Early stages of Gog/Magog.

The little horn is the one who is supposed to pluck out three kings - but you don't have a single person removing Saddam, Qadhafi , Mubarek - for anyone to have filled the role as the little horn.

 

[Ronald]

Well Russia is moving in right now. Early stages of Gog/Magog.

The little horn is the one who is supposed to pluck out three kings - but you don't have a single person removing Saddam, Qadhafi , Mubarek - for anyone to have filled the role as the little horn.

Satan has been moving and active in the Middle East, from the onset of the Arab Spring revolts starting in Tunisia, Dec. 2010, Yemen a month later, Libya, Egypt and Syria all within a few months, setting it on fire. When you hear the Ayatollah speak words like "death to America", "death to Israel", he is absolutely influenced and guided by Satan. The Palestinians/Hamas have the same influence and hence cannot agree on peace. Satan cannot agree with God or God's people, so they display hate and anger and willful defiance to destroy them -- it's the only natural inclination, because they are his. ISIS persecutes Christians (tens of thousands); Islam worldwide persecutes Christians (millions) -- this is all the work of Satan. He plucked out those leaders (God allowed this of course). He will eventually possess the antichrist in full force and then we will know!

 

[Douggg]

He plucked out those leaders (God allowed this of course)

Naw, the little horn is not Satan.

 

[Ronald]

Naw, the little horn is not Satan.

The little horn is a leader who becomes possessed by Satan. How else could he do supernatural things that the world fears -- "Who can go against him?" The Beast is Satan's manifestation of himself, his control over these nations ... his slaves do his will, which is to persecute Christians and Jews, lie and devour everyone and everything that is good.

 

[sahjimira]

When I saw deadly wound to the head I was thinking more in the literal sense. The Antichrist being a man who receives a mortal wound to the head yet lives and all r amazed and follow him. Then there's the false prophet who is probably a religious leader who condones the Antichrist. Then Antichrist takes over with peace pact good for three and a half yrs. Then he will show his real self. I was speculating on what the wound to the head may be. From the posts it doesn't seem that's the view of most. Should I b in another forum or is this point of view acceptable here. Posts were very interesting indeed

 

[zippy2]

When I saw deadly wound to the head I was thinking more in the literal sense. The Antichrist being a man who receives a mortal wound to the head yet lives and all r amazed and follow him. Then there's the false prophet who is probably a religious leader who condones the Antichrist. Then Antichrist takes over with peace pact good for three and a half yrs. Then he will show his real self. I was speculating on what the wound to the head may be. From the posts it doesn't seem that's the view of most. Should I b in another forum or is this point of view acceptable here. Posts were very interesting indeed

You have just as much right here as anyone sis. Post away.

 

[Ronald]

When I saw deadly wound to the head I was thinking more in the literal sense. The Antichrist being a man who receives a mortal wound to the head yet lives and all r amazed and follow him. Then there's the false prophet who is probably a religious leader who condones the Antichrist. Then Antichrist takes over with peace pact good for three and a half yrs. Then he will show his real self. I was speculating on what the wound to the head may be. From the posts it doesn't seem that's the view of most. Should I b in another forum or is this point of view acceptable here. Posts were very interesting indeed

I did too. I thought this leader, the antichrist, would be shot and not necessary killed but maybe in a comma and then 3 days later, be possessed by Satan and come to life, now with supernatural powers. If he died, they would probably embalm him before the three days so that wouldn't work. ???

 

[Douggg]

The little horn is a leader who becomes possessed by Satan. How else could he do supernatural things that the world fears -- "Who can go against him?" The Beast is Satan's manifestation of himself, his control over these nations ... his slaves do his will, which is to persecute Christians and Jews, lie and devour everyone and everything that is good.

All I was saying is that the little horn himself is not Satan.

When the little horn, then later becomes the King of Israel perceived messiah, then commits the act that reveals himself to be the man of sin - for the committing of that act, for a short time will be entered into by Satan. Whether that is literal, or figure of speech is not for certain.

But because the man of sin is also called the son of perdition in 2thessalonians2, we have the clue going back to Judas also called the son of perdition as Satan entered him to likewise carry out an act of betrayal. But it was for a brief period, because not soon afterward, Judas was overwhelmed that he had betrayed an innocent man. Of course, there will be no re-morse with the man of sin in his betrayal.

Once the person becomes the beast, in part, he will be empowered by the unclean spirit ascending out of the bottomless pit, who will possess him.

Of course, all of the resources of Satan's kingdom will be at his disposal since he will be carrying out Satan's agenda. But actually being possessed by Satan full time during that 42 months - not so.

Satan during that time restricted to earth, will be free roaming on the planet, and imo at times will possess the statue image of the beast to make it appear to transform into a living thing - which demands everyone to worship it, really Satan. To fulfill Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

We have further evidence that Satan will possess the statue image from Ezekiel 28.

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

So Satan is going to be visible for the whole world to see at some point. We aren't given direct language in Revelation regarding what happens to the statue image. But we can put together the pieces, I think.

When Jesus returns, the brightness of His Coming will melt away the outer appearance of the statue image bringing it to ashes, like a facade, and there will be Satan on the Temple mount. It will be a climatic moment in the history of the world. I think it will cause such a gasp and silence that a person will be able to hear a pin drop. When the lone angel then descends and binds Satan in chains and takes him away.

 

[Douggg]

When I saw deadly wound to the head I was thinking more in the literal sense. The Antichrist being a man who receives a mortal wound to the head yet lives and all r amazed and follow him. Then there's the false prophet who is probably a religious leader who condones the Antichrist. Then Antichrist takes over with peace pact good for three and a half yrs. Then he will show his real self. I was speculating on what the wound to the head may be. From the posts it doesn't seem that's the view of most. Should I b in another forum or is this point of view acceptable here. Posts were very interesting indeed

You are definitely in the right forum.

It is not known for certain that when the person is killed whether it will be a wound to the head or not. What is said to have a head wound was one of the heads on the beast - which those seven heads are seven kings. It is just a way of saying the king that is killed, when he comes back to life, will become the beast.

The long time classic notion that the Antichrist confirms a peace pact good for seven years (I know you wrote for 3 1/2 years) - is also not exactly correct as it turns out in light of new awareness of what is in the bible itself regarding the confirming the covenant for 7 years.

There is actually a requirement in Deuteronomy 31:9-13, of essentially confirming that covenant on a 7 years basis, called the schmita cycle. The 7 years is in the text. The leader of Israel is suppose to read the law to the nation of Israel, recounting that God gave them the land to be theirs forever - to be done every 7 years.

That observance hasn't been done for a long, long time, over 2000 years at least because the requirement also entails that it has to be done from the place of God's choosing. Which the Jews take to be the temple mount. Of course with muslim control, and controversy over the land itself, they are never going to allow such a commemorative reading as long as they are present.

But following Gog/Magog, that obstacle will no longer be there, and the person who the Jews will errantly embrace to be their messiah will see to it that the commemorative reading be done, confirming the covenant (the Sinai covenant), setting off the 7 years.

The peace and safety condition comes about because with their messiah's arrival, the Jews will think they have entered the messianic age of peace, safety, and harmony within the world.

 

[sahjimira]

interesting="Douggg, post: 68714570, member: 243832"]You are definitnot in the right forum.

It is not known for certain that when the person is killed whether it will be a wound to the head or not. What is said to have a head wound was one of the heads on the beast - which those seven heads are seven kings. It is just a way of saying the king that is killed, when he comes back to life, will become the beast.

The long time classic notion that the Antichrist confirms a peace pact good for seven years (I know you wrote for 3 1/2 years) - is also not exactly correct as it turns out in light of new awareness of what is in the bible itself regarding the confirming the covenant for 7 years.

There is actually a requirement in Deuteronomy 31:9-13, of essentially confirming that covenant on a 7 years basis, called the schmita cycle. The 7 years is in the text. The leader of Israel is suppose to read the law to the nation of Israel, recounting that God gave them the land to be theirs forever - to be done every 7 years.

That observance hasn't been done for a long, long time, over 2000 years at least because the requirement also entails that it has to be done from the place of God's choosing. Which the Jews take to be the temple mount. Of course with muslim control, and controversy over the land itself, they are never going to allow such a commemorative reading as long as they are present.

But following Gog/Magog, that obstacle will no longer be there, and the person who the Jews will errantly embrace to be their messiah will see to it that the commemorative reading be done, confirming the covenant (the Sinai covenant), setting off the 7 years.

The peace and safety condition comes about because with their messiah's arrival, the Jews will think they have entered the messianic age of peace, safety, and harmony within the world.[/QUOTE]IInteresting! So Gog and Magog come before Jesus coming not after the millennium

Interesting! So Gog and Magog
come before Jesus second coming bot

 

[Douggg]

Interesting! So Gog and Magog
come before Jesus second coming bot

Gog/Magog of Ezekiel 38 and 39 will take place right before the beginning of the 7 years, because the little horn's pre-activity to that conflict will make the Jews believe he is the messiah after Gog/Magog is over.

In Ezekiel 39 itself, we have support that the 7 years of burning the remains of the weapons is the same 7 years of the confirming of the covenant.

That support is in Ezekiel 39:4 there is said to be a feast (by the birds and beasts) on all the dead bodies of Gog's army. Then we are given the details of the cleanup, including the information on the 7 years of burning the remains of the weapons. The account of the destruction of Gog's army and the cleanup ends in Ezekiel 39:16.

Then in Ezekiel 39:17-20, Ezekiel is told to prophesy again, but about a second feast, but more extensive than the feast on Gog's army. That feast is the Armageddon feast described in Revelation 19:17-18.

So the 7 years of burning the weapons is the same 7 years that begin when the Antichrist confirms the Sinai covenant - which in the middle of the 7 years betrays the Jewish people, and moves on to become the beast of Revelation 13 for that last 42 months.

From that we can know following Gog/Magog, the Antichrist will come to power as the Antichrist - the King of Israel, a person other than Jesus the rightful King of Israel, and the 7 years will begin.

Prior to Gog/Magog, we can pretty much know who the person is ahead of his enthronement as the Antichrist by what happens in the EU as far as a ten leader form of government coming into being. He will be the leader of that group of ten. The little horn of Daniel 7. We are not there yet, but I think pretty close.

 

[Ronald]

All I was saying is that the little horn himself is not Satan.

When the little horn, then later becomes the King of Israel perceived messiah, then commits the act that reveals himself to be the man of sin - for the committing of that act, for a short time will be entered into by Satan. Whether that is literal, or figure of speech is not for certain.

But because the man of sin is also called the son of perdition in 2thessalonians2, we have the clue going back to Judas also called the son of perdition as Satan entered him to likewise carry out an act of betrayal. But it was for a brief period, because not soon afterward, Judas was overwhelmed that he had betrayed an innocent man. Of course, there will be no re-morse with the man of sin in his betrayal.

Once the person becomes the beast, in part, he will be empowered by the unclean spirit ascending out of the bottomless pit, who will possess him.

Of course, all of the resources of Satan's kingdom will be at his disposal since he will be carrying out Satan's agenda. But actually being possessed by Satan full time during that 42 months - not so.

Satan during that time restricted to earth, will be free roaming on the planet, and imo at times will possess the statue image of the beast to make it appear to transform into a living thing - which demands everyone to worship it, really Satan. To fulfill Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

We have further evidence that Satan will possess the statue image from Ezekiel 28.



So Satan is going to be visible for the whole world to see at some point. We aren't given direct language in Revelation regarding what happens to the statue image. But we can put together the pieces, I think.

When Jesus returns, the brightness of His Coming will melt away the outer appearance of the statue image bringing it to ashes, like a facade, and there will be Satan on the Temple mount. It will be a climatic moment in the history of the world. I think it will cause such a gasp and silence that a person will be able to hear a pin drop. When the lone angel then descends and binds Satan in chains and takes him away.

Did you ever think that the image/statue that he makes talk, is actually a television. How could everyone see and worship an image of the antichrist unless it was broadcast to the world on big screens? These prophetic visions of a television image thousands of years ago could only be described that way.
We shall she -- actually, hope to be gone by then.

 

[Douggg]

Did you ever think that the image/statue that he makes talk, is actually a television. How could everyone see and worship an image of the antichrist unless it was broadcast to the world on big screens? These prophetic visions of a television image thousands of years ago could only be described that way.
We shall she -- actually, hope to be gone by then.

I am sure that television will be involved. But since television has been around since the 1950's and no mark of the beast, nor 666 requirement came along with it - then no, I would not think television itself is the image/statue. It has to be something supernatural, unbelievable without seeing it actually happening - which a lifeless statue coming to life would impart that people would be induced to worship it, I would think.

 

[Ronald]

I am sure that television will be involved. But since television has been around since the 1950's and no mark of the beast, nor 666 requirement came along with it - then no, I would not think television itself is the image/statue. It has to be something supernatural, unbelievable without seeing it actually happening - which a lifeless statue coming to life would impart that people would be induced to worship it, I would think.

Um ,,, not TV, the antichrist on TV -- like when you are watching Obama's speech. This is how everyone will see and worship him -- otherwise you would have to be in his presence.