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Guojing

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Let me give you a scenario. Suppose you wake up one morning and everything went wrong for you:
  • You quarreled with your wife.
  • You kicked the dog
  • Your kids scream at you and say correctly that you are a bad Father.
  • On the way to work, someone cuts into your lane while driving and you let us a cuss word out of anger.
And so on and so forth.

The moment you reach the workplace, you feel very bad about all these "bad things" that you have done.

Suddenly, your colleague ask you to pray for him, because he knows you are a Christian, he is sick and he wants you to pray that he will recover. Would you be
  1. Most eager to pray for him, being confident that God will use you mightily to heal him?
  2. Feeling awkward and tell him, "sorry today is not a good day"?
If you lean more towards the second one, you believe that works, or the lack of it, has something to do with your faith. Those are what you can understand as dead works
 
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Eloy Craft

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Oh, l know how to avoid sinful thots. But when l get them l like them and l entertain them. Then, l break off and my conscience, which supposedly has been cleansed is now dirty again with guilt over entertaining those thots. Get it NOW?
Your conscience is is just letting you know that you aren't perfect yet. You still desire the thoughts.
 
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Alithis

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Nicely put.
Thankyou for posting.

I hold concern as to what people percieve in the term sin-consiousness.
 
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Alithis

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Your conscience is is just letting you know that you aren't perfect yet. You still desire the thoughts.
He person is " choosing to desire the thoughts"
Repentance is lacking from the start..
They have not yet " changed thier minds and resolved to follow Jesus ..."
 
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aiki

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Oh, l know how to avoid sinful thots. But when l get them l like them and l entertain them. Then, l break off and my conscience, which supposedly has been cleansed is now dirty again with guilt over entertaining those thots. Get it NOW?

Why do you assume having your conscience cleansed from the stain of "dead works" entails the eradication of sinful desire? Your conscience, according to verse 14, is cleansed from "dead works," that is, from a sense of guilt arising from the failure to keep the OT laws of separation, ceremony and morality. Through the atoning work of Christ on the cross, your "debt" to the law, your obligation to obey it perfectly or come under condemnation, is alleviated. But your carnal desires still exist and will draw you inevitably into sin when your heart is not fully yielded to God's will and way.
 
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tdidymas

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Oh, l know how to avoid sinful thots. But when l get them l like them and l entertain them. Then, l break off and my conscience, which supposedly has been cleansed is now dirty again with guilt over entertaining those thots. Get it NOW?

Many of us struggle with the same issue. Since we still live in our mortal bodies, we continue to have wicked desires that we have to "put to death" by the power of the Spirit. It's the nature of the Christian life and spiritual warfare. Desires are evil if God defines them as such - for this we have the Bible. We have evil desires because they give us fleshly pleasure.

The cleansing of our conscience, therefore, is not a one-time event, but rather an ongoing lifestyle. Repentance is not a one-time event, but an ongoing lifestyle. The Christian life isn't a one-time "cure-all" but a journey we must walk, throughout our lifetime. The Christian life was called "The Way" in the 1st Century (Acts 22:4).

With that in mind, we are to seek Christ's deliverance from sins in addition to forgiveness. And we are to seek it by faith, not by feelings. Faith is beyond feelings, and since our feelings are unreliable and constantly changing, we must trust Christ's words in spite of the way we feel sometimes.

Now, guilty feelings are good, if it drives us to trust God for guidance. If I commit sin, then yes, I feel guilty and dirty. Such is my opportunity to again trust the Lord for forgiveness and deliverance. We will need Christ's saving strength that we appropriate by faith throughout this lifetime.

Hope this helps.
TD
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Because it is still sin. It is against His Torah and you know it. The Spirit makes you feel it. However, if you repent you now have atonement for them.
 
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dqhall

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When I got a temptation to lust, I prayed to God to strengthen my desire to avoid sin. One may remember warnings against sin instead of past desires to sin.

I was sad about having wasted money on an unnecessary purchase or after I broke something. I was glad when I learned to cut a wasteful expenditure or after I repaired something that was broken.

Seek first the kingdom of heaven and all these other things will be added to you as well.

Some people turned to God, then they were healed.
 
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laboringbro

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I doubt I can explain it better than I already have.

Part of why l am asking this question and why l am bearing down on certain word-meanings is that so many on-line ministers do not really give a thorough exegesis of the subject. l want to see if there is anyone who can/will. lf not, then it is either still an open question or a divisive issue, in which case there is no answer, only opposite or various opinions. That is important for me to know.
 
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laboringbro

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This post is the most help so far. The verses taken together teach me this
: Before Christ cleansed my conscience, it was faulty; unable to discern true good and evil. Now l have a reliable conscience and l should keep it clear; that is, confess any sin that it is convicting me of ASAP. l should be careful to maintain it this way rather than to deny it's conviction to the point where it is not sensitive to sins. Am l right in this conclusion from the verses or not? Please correct me where l have erred.
 
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laboringbro

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Then avoid them.

But when l get them l like them and l entertain them. Then, l break off and my conscience, which supposedly has been cleansed is now dirty again with guilt over entertaining those thots. Get it NOW?
 
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laboringbro

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To TD, This issue for me is one where l am trying to understand why the Bible (God) would say my conscience has been cleansed. Cleansed seems a one-time thing, particularly if done by the precious blood. Okay, then, so, then we are admonished to keep it clean, which indicates, at least to me that l can dirty up what Christ has cleansed - a blatant contradiction of one of the foundations of Christianity. Christ's cross work is eternal. How could l undo it?
 
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aiki

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The Christian does not rely mainly upon his conscience to discern between right and wrong but upon the conviction of the Holy Spirit. The former may be misled and perverted, the latter, never. Also, the Christian has the word of God, the Bible, filled with truth, principles, and commands delineating right from wrong and true from false. Where God's word diverges from the inclinations of a Christian's conscience, it is the right and true way.
 
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tdidymas

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Ok, let's look at the context of Heb. then: "If we go on sinning after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, but only an expectation of judgment..."

The truth he is talking about is the substitutionary sacrifice of Christ which is provided for the cleansing of our conscience, that is, the acceptance of God's forgiveness of our sins. "If we go on sinning..." has these aspects to it:
1. Unbelief. That is, a failure to apply the blood of Christ to our spirit by faith. John 3 concurs with "he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
2. Disobedience. That is, a failure to hope in the delivering power of Christ to cause us to overcome sinful habits, and live a righteous life.
3. Attitude. That is, an arrogant willful sinning in the face of God's mighty efforts to get us to repent, which is a form of blasphemy to some degree, as it is in effect calling God a liar and deeming Christ's sacrifice ineffective.
Since Christ's sacrifice is the ultimate atonement, there is nothing greater that can possibly reconcile us to God, and therefore we have no choice but to embrace it and apply it to ourselves.

So then, can you see that your question "how could I undo it" has a serious implication, that it (unintentionally) denies the effectiveness of Christ's sacrifice? At some point you'll need to recognize your doubts are based on your own thoughts, feelings, and actions. And that you will need to take heed to Christ's admonition to His disciples in John 15 "abide in Me." ("for apart from Me you can do nothing.")
TD
 
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Quasiblogo

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I find that most of my “good works” have to do with how I react to people. It is the situational where the rubber meets the road. A day full of obedience to Jesus, by reacting in and with grace, can leave me tired and appreciative that the Lord gives to His beloved in sleep.
 
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laboringbro

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So, then, what is the purpose of this conscience-voice hassling me because l "did it again"?
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Any work that is not the "will of the Father" is a dead work. Your conscience is how you know you are performing dead works vs good works through the guidance of the Holy Spirit that lives in you if you are regenerated. This is how your thinking, motives and behaviors change. The purging is regeneration, the conscience keeps you regenerated as the Holy Spirit continually works in your life to make you "like Christ". Yes, you can load yourself with dead works if you "quench" the Holy Spirit. The flesh is weak.
Blessings
 
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Jeshu

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So, then, what is the purpose of this conscience-voice hassling me because l "did it again"?

We must only fight the accuser/satan in our guilty conscience with The truths of the word and under the umbrella of God's gracious love. The blood of Christ can deliver us from a guilty conscience. Where we repent of the wrong we have committed and place ourselves under the rule of His loving truth.

Each time when we have (new) life in sin our guilty conscious accuses us. A guilty conscience is activated when we transgress God's love or when transgress social or religious laws, morals or regulations. Therefore we ought to put no faith in our conscience for it is easily corrupted.

The bible teaches about life where our conscience is crystal clear. Jesus can set us free from a guilty conscience. His blood paid for all sin so we are covered in Him and by Him when we place our lives in His truth, no longer believe the lies which have us captive, but turn away from a life of sinful wrong.

To harden our hearts against a guilty conscience is satan's way of making people more dishonest, loveless, arrogant and wicked. While he tortures loving caring people with their misdeeds making them feel guilty, shameful, regretful, hopeless, full of despair and increasingly fearful and unloved. This way satan keeps people captivated with his bad life while he kills God's good life living within the human heart.

This is why faith in God's love - Jesus Christ - is essential to escape the power of disintegration, satan's name doesn't for nothing mean destroyer.

Please bring yourself before His mercy seat and confess your sins and shortcomings and let Him set you free.

Meeting Jesus.

Inability to change forces me to look Jesus in the eye.
The blushing shame from my own nakedness creeps.
Lucky I know the accuser is merely the father of the lie.
Well now a harvest this fallen angel reaps.
Come see the weeds inside my heart to be burnt!

"Can you remember times of wanton greed?"
Awakened, I hear my faithful Saviour speak
"When you hated from my love to feed?"
In His kind words the fire of His mercy peaks,
I watch my greed tumble out of my psyche.

A fiery ending is the best way to illustrate,
the fate my inner greed meets on his tailspin out.
Utterly rejected and in a most miserable state.
Clear knowledge what his punishment is about,
This past ruler is stripped of his powers.

"Those times you in selfishness did feed?"
The perspicacity of His view zeros in.
His voice gentle, sounding so sweet.
Still I watch my biggest I crumble within.
Tumbling down the tunnel without ending.

"But my beloved child why did you follow?"
His urgent words bring me back from sure calamity.
"How much narcissistic thinking did you swallow?
Come, just let it flow out of your personality,
take on a humble vision of self like me."

Gratefully I take His gift offered to me.
A humble heart inside my chest to throb.
Truly from greedy selfishness free to be.
My dear Heavenly Friend please never stop,
fill my every sense of being with Yourself.

Never did I deserve this.
Your goodness in my heart to meet.
I have done so much amiss.
Yet in loving care You still greet.
Oh how I long forever in You to be.
 
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