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dead to sin??

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by Darren, Feb 12, 2002.

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  1. Darren

    Darren ...servant of Jesus...

    Okay people. I am a little confused about this and I am wondering whether you can help. Basically I have got a little confused with this verse from John.

    1 John 3:5-6,9:
    Now this seems fair enough, until I start thinking about whether any christian sins? Can you be a christian and still sin? According to this verse, it seems not?? But then why would Jesus put in the Lord's prayer "Forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us." This implies that we are still sinners. Also, there is the verse, although I can't remember the reference, that says, "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". I understand that all christians have at some point sinned, perhaps before they became christians, which could justify that verse. But then, after becoming christians, are we completely dead to sin? And if you keep on sinning, does that make you not a christian!?

    I've got quite confused in all this, so some input would be very much appreciated :)

    Oh and one more thing. Before getting confused with this verse, I thought that because Jesus died for our sins, we are dead to sin. That means that although we occassionally slip up, we are already forgiven of those sins because Jesus died once for them all. That is as long as you understand that you have sinned, and you are truely sorry. The only problem with this philosophy, is what classes as an occassionally slip up? once? twice? three times? You see what I mean?

    Well I'd love to hear what you all think...

    Love in Christ,
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

    >>why would Jesus put in the Lord's prayer "Forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us." This implies that we are still sinners.

    The devil would like you to think you are still a sinner. God does not forgive us and leave us in sin. What sort of a Father would that be. I can see it now, the school system calls me up and says: "Mr Jones your child has been breaking our rules." I would say, "that is ok, I forgive him". "But sir, he is still breaking the rules" And I would say: "You do not understand I am a good father and I forgive him so he can do whatever he wants to do". WRONG They would throw you in jail. Or in the very least, you would have to go talk to the judge and give an account of yourself for having a unrulely child.

    Hebrews 12:6-7
    For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. [7] If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

    The Children of the devil are law breakers and sinners. We are children of God, and we are to govern ourselves accordingly. Only those who receive correction are children of God. Those who want to continue in their sin and their rebellion are children of the devil.

    Acts 13:9-10
    Then Saul, who also is called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him [10] and said, "O full of all deceit and all fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease perverting the straight ways of the Lord?
  3. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

    >>I thought that because Jesus died for our sins, we are dead to sin.

    Hebrews 5:8
    Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

    Jesus had a body just like we have. He had to get His body to submit itself to His divine nature. Also, Jesus had divine Blood flowing though His veins.

    When we are born again, we take on the divine nature of God. We have the Blood of Jesus in our soul. The Bible says, that life is in the Blood. It is though the Blood of Jesus that we receive eternal life. We then take on the Mind of Christ and the divine thoughts & the divine nature of God. People think there is a middle ground, but there is no middle ground. ANY unGodly thinking is of the devil.

    The Sermon on the Mount goes a LONG way toward teaching us how to have the same Attitude that Jesus had when He was here. When we are filled with the Holy Spirit, He is our helper, our teacher, and He guides us and leads us in the way that we are to go. He will show us the Jesus attitude we are to have as Children of God. What makes us a Child of God is that we are Christ like. The Father was well pleased with Jesus, and when we become like Jesus, the Father will be well pleased with us.

    Adam was a child of God, and approved by God as being good. But then the devil came along and put stubborness and rebellion into Adam and Eve, so they fell from the grace of God. They were transformed and became children of the devil. It looked like Able was finding his way back to God, but Cain was so full of the devil that he killed Able. What heart ache and suffering is caused by sin. But God does have a plan of redemption. For those who are conformed to the Image of Christ, for those who are willing to be transformed back into Children of God.

    If Adam and Eve had never sinned, they would still be alive today. There would be no bald spots on Adams head, his eyes and teeth would still be good. He would still be living in Paradise, tending the Garden. There would be no weeds, thorns or thisles. It would never be to hot or to cold. But the good news is, God is going to restore ALL of that, for whosoever is willing, let them come to God and be made into Children of God. Thanks, JohnR7
  4. Optimus_P

    Optimus_P Super Umpa Lumpa

    7 i think is the number for perfection or forever/eternity something to that nature. I will try to find the exact meaning o f7 and its history. Just happens to be something we had vagly touched on in Bible study last night.

    "Luke 17
    "" Be on your guard! <*1> If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.
    ""And if he sins against you <*2> seven times a day, and returns to you seven times, saying, "I repent,' forgive him.''
  5. SenseiPiccolo

    SenseiPiccolo Well-Known Member

    we are all sinners--
    but thanks be to God for sending Jesus to die for our sins--
    Read up on the armour of God--
    and there youll see the rightiousness of God--
    that we have so that when we mess up we can goto Jesus
    please use the King James Bible
  6. Debbie

    Debbie Active Member

    Darrin every word of JOhn's quote is true. Christians do continue to sin but they will be convicted by the Holy Spirit of their sin & their conscience will drive them to repent, so to speak.
    We also stil have free will & could choose to give up our salvation & choose sin. All of the Bible is true. Read the other passages on sin.
    1) sam is truly saved at age 16
    2) at age 20, being single, a woman seduces him & he commits fornication.
    3) at this point, a fornicator will not enter heaven per scripture.
    So at that point sam is going to hell. IF sam repents, his eternal salvation is restored. The passage from john does not indicate a time frame for "continuing" in sin. If sam repents that next day or 20 years later, he is still saved.
    Scripture also says in the book of JAmes, matt.7, romans 14, not to judge. If you see sam committing fornication & he tells you Jesus is his Saviour, then now he is saved, but you could admonish him (per scripture)that a fornicator will not enter heaven.
    Many people claim that a saved person who is fornicating or whatever sin they are committing, could never have been saved, are just not biblical, because Paul also admitted to sin. The theory that once saved always saved gives some people confidence that they can sin with confidence of eternal salvation. One has to have balance & take into consideration all the scripture.
    Sam may never repent. He may decide, with his own free will, that he is having too much fun to do God's will. When we put our will above God's will, or when we don't put God's will first, we are saying,"I want to do what pleases me" which is not eternal salvation. God keeps his word, but we can change our minds. I think that according to scripture I have read that every CHristian should strive, through the help of the Holy Spirit, to be righteous & blameless. We cannot do it on our own, but I pray that the Holy Spirit will make me righteous as I put God's will above my own.
    It boils down to what is salvation:WHosover will believe on the name of the Lord shall be saved". true enough, but others believe we must be "born again" which entails submitting our will to God's will. (such as breaking a horse's will).
  7. Wildfire

    Wildfire Member

    I am no prophet, but I understand what you are confused over. One of the disciples, Peter, whom Jesus loved much, had slipped up, and yet he was still a disciple of God. If you will read the NT, Jesus questions him several times; if he loved him above all things, which greived Peter, yet he answered him, yes, you know I love thee. So, here is a prime example of what you are seeking. Jesus acknowledged his love for him, yet continued to ask if his heart and soul were with him. I believe once you have commited yourself completely to God, and he lives in you, it is of a greater less chance that you will sin, or become children of "darkness." Soup
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