Day of Atonement. A thought.

[Steve Petersen]

In your theological speculations, keep in mind that the Passover lamb was not a sin offering. The details of its sacrifice make it closest to a peace offering.

 

[stinsonmarri]

Greetings BFA​

I responded to your quotes:​

Even if this were true, why would it matter? The tree of the knowledge of good and evil existed before sin and is no longer a factor in our daily lives. It is true but once again I am here to present to you the facts as it is stated from the Bible that's my job. I do not do the work of the Holy Spirit!​

Sin was here when Satan sinned before man sinned. It was a test of loyalty and not the tree itself BFA. Why try to go to the tree instead you should go for the reason that it was a test. Elohim test the angels because all being are free agents as we are. That is why no one should force anyone to believe anything. We are to present and allow the Holy Spirit to lead into all truth!​

• The passover did not exist before sin. I never said it did
• There were no animal sacrifices before sin (and animal sacrifices are a central part of the God-given criteria for the observance of convocations). I never said that as well what I said that the plan of Redemption and Salvation was before the foundation of the world. 1Pe 1:19, 20

I would agree with you that there are valuable principles found in all of God's commands to the Israelites. Yahweh did not give His Commands to one group of people but to the world in the beginning. That would mean He gave it to Adam and Eve: 1John 2:2-7​

However, I don't claim to observe feast days. I never said that you did what I said that Feast Days are Yahweh's Lev 23:1, 2​

No, it really doesn't. But I respect that this is your opinion. Here is facts and not opinions:​

Animal sacrifice is the ritual killing of an animal as part of a religion. It is practiced by many religions as a means of appeasing a god or gods or changing the course of nature. Animal sacrifice has turned up in almost all cultures, from the Hebrews to the Greeks and Romans and from the Aztecs to the Hindus.From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

Priests and priestesses have been known since the earliest of times and in the simplest societies. They exist in all or some branches of Judaism, Christianity, Shintoism, Hinduism and many other religions. They are generally regarded as having positive contact with the deity or deities of the religion to which they subscribe, often interpreting the meaning of events and performing the rituals of the religion. Priests are leaders to whom other believers will often turn for advice on spiritual matters.From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

A religious festival is a time of special importance marked by adherents to that religion. Religious festivals are commonly celebrated on recurring cycles in a calendar year or lunar calendar. Religion and festival go together. Hundreds of very different religious festivals are held around the world each year.From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

The convocations were given to Israel. No it was not it was giving to Adam but man through time changed and corrupted them! Psa 119:16, 83, 93, 176 My friend sin is the transgression of the law!!!​

Such opportunities to reflect back are certainly not God-ordained feast days, nor do I observe them or talk about them as such. Once again I am not saying that you keep them but they are kept and known as feast days. My point is where do you think this all comes from? BFA you can do as you choose all I am doing is answering your questions with what the Bible says and not me. Soon we all will know what Elohim expected us to keep.​

Do you really know what I do or don't understand about the Bible? Again you are taken it personal and I never write anything to one specific person but general.​

That is not my understanding of "filled full." Through my study of the meaning of this word, I have concluded that it means that "the obligation was fully met." Matt 5:17​

Don't suppose that I came to do away with the Law and the Prophets. I did not come to do away with them, but to give them their full meaning. (CEV)​

(GNB) "Do not think that I have come to do away with the Law of Moses and the teachings of the prophets. I have not come to do away with them, but to make their teachings come true. (GNB)​

"Don't ever think that I came to set aside Moses' Teachings or the Prophets. I didn't come to set them aside but to make them come true. (GW)

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Torah or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to complete.(The Scriptures 1998+)​

"Do not for a moment suppose that I have come to abrogate the Law or the Prophets: I have not come to abrogate them but to give them their completion. (WNT)​

Now what is amazing is that all these versions understand it clearly what it meant, to make Yahweh's laws come true. I am going to bed now but I will continue with the rest tomorrow​

Blessings,​

stinsonmarri

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Yahweh did not give His Commands to one group of people but to the world in the beginning. That would mean He gave it to Adam and Eve

The passover pointed back to a specific event during the exodus story. Similarly, the seventh day sabbath pointed back to the exodus (see Exodus 34). The seventh-day sabbath was a sign between God and the children of Israel (see Exodus 31). There is no indication that these convocations were observed by any men prior to the children of Israel.

Satan sinned before man sinned.

True. We cannot claim that holy convocations such as the seventh-day sabbath or the passover existed before satan sinned. These convocations were established after sin.

My friend sin is the transgression of the law!!!

A man sins if he knows to do what is right and does it not. In fact, all wrong doing is sin. Why? Because the Spirit convicts with respect to sin and righteousness and jugdment.

Here are a few more translations to add to your collection:

17"Do not think that I came to abolish the (A)Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

17(A) "Do not think that I have come to abolish(B) the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but(C) to fulfill them.

17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

17`Do not suppose that I came to throw down the law or the prophets -- I did not come to throw down, but to fulfill;
​

BFA

 

[OldStudent]

The Day Of Atonement was the cleansing of the sanctuary in the OT. But this was sympolic and couldn't really cleans the true sanctuary. In the OT the sanctuary was symbolic for the true sanctuary, which is the conscience of man. The blood of Chirst cleans the true sanctuary, our conscience. In this we become at one with God, (AtOneMent)

In a sense I can follow your obsrvation in that we are called a dwelling place of God and of the Spirit and an aspect of the cleansing has to deal with our conscience. But the OT tabernacle was patterned after an original shown Moses. In reading Hebrews and especially Revelation you see the real work done in the real Tabernacle by the real Christ - Anointed High Priest. Revelation needs to be read in the context of issues being handled in the over-arching theme of the Great Controversy and a thorough and fresh view of the Mosaic Tabernacle. Otherwise the point of the book is missed and its understanding is... well, all messed up.

With our disposition against "legalism" we just don't think of entertaining the idea that there is a lot of legal transaction in dealing with a broken law - sin, guilt, meeting out of consequences, forgiveness, justification, sanctification. The transactions necessary in dealing with sin are demonstrated in the Mosaic Tabernacle and carried out for real in the Heavenly Sanctuary.

There is certainly a place for the cleansing of the conscience but what that means could support more conversation. Does that mean we receive amnesia and can't recall having sinned? Does it mean to receive and accept forgiveness and have comfort in knowing that we have been relieved of the ultimate consequences? ... and perhaps another paragraph of questions.

 

[stinsonmarri]

Greetings BFA​

I responded to the rest of your quotes:​

I can assure you I don't keep any of them. All people have to keep a law that's how people of the world are governed and that's how Yahweh governs and rules the universe. Everything that Yahweh's has made is kept intact by laws: nature (sun comes up in the east and goes down in the west. Planets alway circle around suns, the moon is always the lesser light.), birth (Only a female and a male of all kinds are able to produce an off spring), and death (all decomposes and return back to dust). If you break government laws you must pay a penalty and the same applies to Yahweh.​

Yea, the stork in the heaven knoweth her appointed times; and the turtle and the crane and the swallow observe the time of their coming; but my people know not the judgment of YAHWEH. Jer 8:7​

For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before Elohim, but the doers of the law shall be justified. Rom 2:12, 13​

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of Elohim; Do we then make void the law through faith? Elohim forbid: yea, we establish the law Rom 3: 20, 23, 31​

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Rom 5:12, 13 ​

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? Elohim forbid.

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Elohim forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. For I delight in the law of Elohim after the inward man: Rom 7:7, 12, 22 ​

And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of Elohim was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 1John 3:3-8​

Since I am guilty in one point, I am most assuredly guilty in all. That's correct so we must obey all so we want be guilty of any!​

I am not alone. However, I sense that you receive a blessing by observing convocations and I would not want to rob you of that blessing (nor is that my purpose in posting here). I do not believe that at all!! Allow me to say this no one can rob or take away anyone's blessing because they come from above. Never have I met you personally but the way you write shows your character and you always write with kindness and dignity. We may not agree but we respect each other in our choices and how we choose to believe. I feel that there are concerns that you have or you would not have ask certain questions. However it is not for anyone to say because I do not accept that what I believe if you don't than you are doom. We do not have that right Yashua saves and not man. No we all preached that our church or doctrines are better than anyone else instead of lifting up the name of Yashua and state what the Bible says. Than step back and allow the Holy Spirit to lead men and women into all truth. So many will be lost because of how we treat one another because I see so many who call themselves Christians but hate President Obama. Why even if he was not born here or is of the Islamic faith are we to mistreat him on those bases? People in this country by choice voted him into office base on our laws! We accuse the Muslim faith of the very things we do to each other as Christians we are against each other because we believe differently. Finally I rather see a sermon in your actions in serving Elohim than to hear one preached. ​

Bless you BFA,​

stinsonmarri

 

[Joe67]

I recommend the following passages. I've included the chapter citations so you can read each one in its full context. If you anyone is interested in diving into any one of them in more detail, I'd love that.

For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Romans 6

He does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. Hebrews 7

Not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. Hebrews 9

Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. Hebrews 9

Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. Hebrews 10

By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Hebrews 10

For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh. 1 Peter 3
​

BFA

BFA,

Romans 6:10 is the beginning thought.

Romans 6:11 is the sealing thought.

Rom 6:11
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. KJV

Romans 6:12-14 is the leaves and the fruit on the tree of life, growing in the river of life.

Rom 6:12-14
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. (This is the leaves of the tree that heal the nations of the saved).

13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. (This is where fruit meet for repentance is produced in and through us by the holy Spirit mixing the love of God into the 4 corners of our spiritual hearts).

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. KJV (This is the same as verse 1, but with the relationship of "the law" brought into the mix).

Sin can only have dominion over us under the law of "You shall not..."

Under the altar of grace the members of our bodies are instruments of righteousness unto God, by Jesus our Lord.

We do not sin under the new commandment to love the fellow saints of the household of Jesus' priesthood and congregation; those who the Lord gives to us to serve.

Sin only occurs under an old covenant state of mind. Then you have to pay the earthly minister/priest to have peace with God.

The high priest of grace is after the order of Melchizedec, without beginning and ending. It is without evenings and mornings. He is in the new Jerusalem and the Spirit communicates with him for us. He knows the mind of the Spirit and he also reads our hearts. When the heart of the believer and the mind of the Spirit agree then our requests are always freely answered by the Father through the Son.

Joe

 

[Joe67]

In your theological speculations, keep in mind that the Passover lamb was not a sin offering. The details of its sacrifice make it closest to a peace offering.

Steve,

Jesus said, that the wine is his blood that was spilled for us and that the bread is his body that was broken for us.

He was given up for our offenses and was raised again for our justification which gives us peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Rom 4:25

Is this what you are saying, that we (who are enemies of God in our flesh) have peace with God in our inward parts (mind) through the passover in Jesus our Lord?

Joe

 

[Steve Petersen]

I am just saying that if you think the Passover lamb was a sin offering you would be wrong. The type of Jesus dying for our sins as The Passover Lamb does not work.

 

[Joe67]

I am just saying that if you think the Passover lamb was a sin offering you would be wrong. The type of Jesus dying for our sins as The Passover Lamb does not work.

Steve,

1 Cor 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: KJV

This is the elementary lesson in the gospel that sets us free from the bondage of Egyptian worship.

Joe

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Never have I met you personally but the way you write shows your character and you always write with kindness and dignity. We may not agree but we respect each other in our choices and how we choose to believe.

I appreciate you saying that. I feel similarly about your posts. I believe we can dialogue and disagree while still remaining true to the greatest commandment and I thank you for illustrating that.​

I do not accept that what I believe if you don't than you are doom.

That's refreshing.​

So many will be lost because of how we treat one another because I see so many who call themselves Christians but hate President Obama. Why even if he was not born here or is of the Islamic faith are we to mistreat him on those bases? People in this country by choice voted him into office base on our laws! We accuse the Muslim faith of the very things we do to each other as Christians we are against each other because we believe differently.

I agree with this wholeheartedly!
​

All people have to keep a law that's how people of the world are governed

If the law was my only way to salvation, then I would agree. However, there is another way for this human who has demonstrated time and again his inability.

That's correct so we must obey all so we want be guilty of any!

I agree. If I was seeking to earn salvation through keeping the law, I must obey all in order to accomplish it. I praise God for providing another way for me, because I recognize my inability to do so.​

Allow me to say this no one can rob or take away anyone's blessing because they come from above.

That's good, because I would never want to rob you even if I could.​

Finally I rather see a sermon in your actions in serving Elohim than to hear one preached.

Me too! Thanks for the respectful dialogue.​

BFA​

 

[stinsonmarri]

BFA:​

Thank you and I truly meant what I said and here is the response to your last comment: ​

The passover pointed back to a specific event during the exodus story. Follow the Sacrificial system from Adam to all men from all people who knew Yahweh Elohim not just the Jews.)​

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Unto Adam also and to his wife did Yahweh Elohim make coats of skins, and clothed them. Gen 3:15, 21 (kuttoneth- unused root meaning to cover; ‛or- hide, leather, skin.) That is what atonement is a covering.​

And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And Yahweh had respect unto Abel and to his offering: Gen 4:4​

And Noah builded an altar unto Yahweh; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar. Gen 8:20​

Unto the place of the altar, which he had made there at the first: and there Abram called on the name of Yahweh. But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before Yahweh exceedingly. Then Abram removed his tent, and came and dwelt in the plain of Mamre, which is in Hebron, and built there an altar unto Yahweh. Gen 13:4, 13, 18 ​

And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high Elohim. And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high Elohim, possessor of heaven and earth: And blessed be the most high Elohim, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all. ​

Gen 14:18-20 (Two different men of two different nations both knew that Yahweh was the Most High Elohim)​

And he said unto him, Take me an heifer of three years old, and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon. And he took unto him all these, and divided them in the midst, and laid each piece one against another: but the birds divided he not. But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full. Gen 15:9, 10, 16 (Here is the practices of the heifer already, iniquity is known sin and Yahweh was giving the Canaanite exactly 430 years probation before they were to be killed and destroyed similar but not final like their sister Sodom and Gomorrah.)​

Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Jude 1:7​

But Elohim came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou art but a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she is a man's wife. But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation? Gen 20:3, 4 (Once again a nation righteous that were not Jews they were Philistines of Gaza that were living in Canaan during this time!) And Pathrusim, and Casluhim, (out of whom came Philistim,) and Caphtorim. Gen 10:14 Read Genesis chapter ten on the nations or ethnic group that came from Noah's three sons.​

And it came to pass at that time, that Abimelech and Phichol the chief captain of his host spake unto Abraham, saying, Elohim is with thee in all that thou doest: Thus they made a covenant at Beersheba: then Abimelech rose up, and Phichol the chief captain of his host, and they returned into the land of the Philistines. Gen 21:22, 32 ​

And Elohim came to Laban the Syrian in a dream by night, and said unto him, Take heed that thou speak not to Jacob either good or bad. Gen 31:24 (Here a Syrian knew Elohim)

There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared Elohim, and eschewed evil. Job 1:5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed Elohim in their hearts. Thus did Job continually. Job 1:1​

Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of Elohim, even to Horeb. Ex 3:1 (Jethro a Midianite who was not related to Moses was also a priest of Elohim. Priest offers sacrifices to Elohim.)​

I want you to understand now that I realize that you were once an Adventist (That does not change anyway how I feel it just let me know why I had a special kinship I felt for you). That Elohim is no respect of person. We can make all kind of excuses to state that there is a different from the OT versus the NT which is totally ridiculous and unfounded. The OT was the Scriptures that Yashua, the disciples, and the apostles had and live by. What was said that Yahweh's laws apply to mankind! All throughout the OT other people were sacrificing well before there was a Jew. Bigotry is so evil that people will believe a lie to even think that Yahweh choses one ethnic group over another. That is where all this hate comes from and it is not true. Yahweh deman and want the same for all mankind. The Sacrifical System was for all mankind as a symbol of His Son's death. That is why Yahweh destroyed the Temple so the Jew could not disgrace His ruling that it was over! I will leave these last Scriptures to present the truth!​

One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you. Ex 12:49​

For the wrath of Elohim is revealed from heaven against all unholiness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of Elohim is manifest in them; for Elohim hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Majesty; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew Elohim, they glorified him not as Elohim, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, Rom 1:18-22 ​

All scripture is given by inspiration of Elohim, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of Elohim may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. 2Ti 3:16, 17 (Keep in mind that Paul was referring at this time to the Torah and the Prophet because this is what they had and obeyed.)

Blessings,​

stinsonmarri