David Wilkerson, True or false ?

[Yitzchak]

David Wilkerson is famous for the ministry teen challenge and will always be remembered for his work with the gangs in New York.

But what about his teachings ? He started out as a typical Assembly of God pastor from a small church in a small town in Pennsylvania. But after God took him to new York and his name became well known , Wilkerson went in a different direction than most well known preachers of our day. He became very , very radical. His supporters love it and his critics think he went off the deep end a little. One thing is certain. His preaching left little room for being neutral. Either a person has grave concerns and deep disagreements with it or they think he is one of the few true prophetic voices crying out to our generation.

His sermons have titles like " a call to anguish " and " how to resurrect a dead church ". He preaches against things like television a sin and I would classify him as a revival preacher , but not the same type of revival preacher who has the big stadium crowds and a lot of healings. He is the type of revival preacher who says God is about to send judgment and we better repent and be a lot more serio7us about it than we are comfortable being.

Wilkerson says things like this...

“...Yet, tragically, many today still eat at the table of demons, serving their own lustful appetites, and then attempt to come to the Lord's table and feast with the righteous. This leads only to spiritual sickness and death because these deceived ones do not discern the true Bread of God.
These sickly sheep have become so spiritually weak and diseased by sin that they cannot eat strong meat. Instead, the prefer to nibble at the husks of ear-tickling teachings. They gravitate toward lightness and entertainment rather than the genuine Word. Their spiritual appetites have become dull as a result of eating too much junk food.”

and this...

"We distort God's grace by making it out to be some kind of tunnel out of the prison of His law. But grace is actually a teacher of holiness." - David Wilkerson

and this...

I'man old-fashioned preacher who believes in honoring the sabbath. And one reason behind my conviction is that I was raised in a preacher's home, where the sabbath was honored religiously.

and this...

Folks, you read the New Testament, you will find that Paul the Apostle named those who he believed were false prophets. He warned and he named their names. I am telling you now that if you can listen to what I am about to tell you, and not be grieved, then you are blind. You are spiritually blind. You have a hard heart. A heart with a shield on it so that the pure gospel can not penetrate it. The mind has been so saturated with this unbalanced gospel that you can not come to many of them. You can not preach the truth. You can not show them anything else in the scripture because they have a shield over their hearts. Hard hearted.
Some of you will not receive it. If you have been feeding your soul on Copeland or Hagin's tapes, you are not going to like what you hear. Folks, I am a Shepherd, I've been called by God. I made this church a promise. As long as we are in this pulpit, if we saw wolves in sheep's clothing coming to rob the flock, we would stand up and cry out against it. It is up to you to do something about it.

and this ...

"We distort God's grace by making it out to be some kind of tunnel out of the prison of His law. But grace is actually a teacher of holiness." - David Wilkerson

I listened to his sermon , " a call to anguish " , and I was both convicted and troubled. Convicted that obviously Wilkerson takes this stuff a lot more seriously than I do and I think perhaps I am quite stoic about things that are driving some saints to tears. But troubled because I asked my self the question , " is this healthy , has Wilkerson gone off the deep end ? "

Now Wilkerson has passed away , but he has disciples who live on and preach the same message.


So I pose this question. Setting aside his teen challenge work which was obviously good. What about his radical teachings ? Did he go off the deep end and get into a bunch of anti grace error ? Or did he get it bang on ? Or is he the third option . A mixed bag ? Some good and some bad ?

Please try to keep it civil. This is open to anyone to post your view. Both for and against. radical or neutral.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Rev. Wilkerson touched and continues to touch millions of people for Christ.

There is no disputing that.

His doctrinal cheese slid off the cracker a while back.

 

[Watchman4hm]

He didnt go off the deep end..This forum is a great example of what hes talking about..Smugness and arrogance run rampant here and we call ourselves the church..Where graciousness and humbleness?...Covetousness in the church is now excepted and yet Peter himself spoke against it and prophesied of it coming in the later days as well.(2 Peter 2)..False teachers of greasy grace abound yet more and more...The word repentance is now just a get out of jail card. The love of many has grown cold because iniquity abounds...Without that love people are betraying the ONE who set them free, and are betraying others as well..Houses are divided and they of his own house shall betray as well...ALL because we want God to be who we want ...We want God to conform to OUR image...The Israelites did it over and over and now the church by and large are repeating the same...Yeah, yeah I know...Here come the debaters whining and crying foul...They will comb google with anything to malign David and his ministry...Anyone who disagreas with them will be BETRAYED and said in their hearts "hes not of God", or "he false just like David was"...


2 Timothy 3:1This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 9But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.

 

[Watchman4hm]

Stephen went off the deep end and it got him stoned to death...His words to those of his day were; "stiff-necked and uncircumcised of the heart and ears"...Isaiah went off the deep end saying some have ears but cant perceive and Jesus quotes him IN THE NEW TESTAMENT....

Matthew 13:Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 12For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. 16But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

The underlined scripture is heavy..If you find yourself not understanding what some are saying its quite possible you have walked off the path of God and been taken in by false teachers..YOU no longer can say line upon line, precept upon precept because you have taken hold of a false teaching that REQUIRES you to twist other scriptures to justify what you have been deceived to believe..The only way to keep from being deceived in these last hours is to stay repentant and humble..

 

[Yitzchak]

I voted for some good and some bad. I think it is understandable in the context of our times that David Wilkerson gets carried away in being zealous about things. But he does go off on tangents that I do not agree with. I don't believe that he gets a pass just because he is sincere and just because he is a good brother who is zealous for the Lord.

For example , I have a television and watch it on a regular basis and enjoy it without condemnation. I also enjoy some of the teachings of word of faith teachers who are condemned by Wilkerson.

 

[rdclmn72]

I was worse, until I realized that being radical scares kids,...so much for that.

 

[lismore]

This is open to anyone to post your view. Both for and against. radical or neutral.

My late uncle's church PWAMM had a connection with Dave Wilkerson, I believe he spoke there a couple of times.

The main contention seems to be that Wilkerson preaches too much on repentance and against the money bit in WOF?

 

[Yitzchak]

My late uncle's church PWAMM had a connection with Dave Wilkerson, I believe he spoke there a couple of times.

The main contention seems to be that Wilkerson preaches too much on repentance and against the money bit in WOF?

I find the same thing. I like the message of repentance , but it is possible to take it too far. It gets old when every sermon is browbeating everyone. Don't get me wrong , I think that type of sermon has it's place. Just not every sermon. I also don't like when it feels forced.

There is a time and place for correction , but looking too hard to find something to correct every time you speak becomes abuse. If one looks hard enough , they can always find something to criticize. Saying that the criticism is done in love gets old when it is never balanced out by affirmation messages.

I think the Wilkerson camp seems like it has a weakness in accountability in this area. The people in his movement seem like they are all yes people who agree with everything he and his core group of preachers say. I am not sure whether no one has tried or some tried and failed at bringing more balance to his ministry. But his disciples seem to be following in his footsteps.

 

[Always in His Presence]

When Rev. Wilkerson Started his ministry and through the early to mid 80's he was a pretty solid preacher. The Cross and the Switchblade propelled him into the public eye.

But in the mid to late 90's something with him changed. He started as a "Prophet" and things got strange from there.

Truth be told - David Wilkerson has given a number of failed prophecies before.

1. 1000 Fires in NYC by 1993I have had recurring visions of over 1,000 fires burning at one time here in New York city. I am convinced race riots will soon explode! New York City is right now a powder keg-ready to blow!...federal and State Welfare cutbacks will be the spark that ignites the fuse. Next year, New York City could have over 100,000 angry men on the streets, enraged because they have been cut off from benefits....Federal troops will have to move in to restore order. New York City will have tanks running down its avenues....Churches will be closed for a season because it will be too dangerous to travel about. Fires will rage everywhere. (Prophecy from Sept. 7, 1992)

2. The End of Gospel Television by 1999 "Right now I sense in my spirit that in less than 5 years there will be no more so-called gospel television networks. They will all fall into bankruptcy and absolute ruin." (Solomon Church Dec. 12, 1994)

3. Financial Crash in 2000 For the last two years I have been crying aloud, warning all who would hear that America is receiving her last call and that judgment is at the door. I did not say this was the end of the nation, but the last call before a financial crash." (April 15, 2000).
I am writing this letter to you on Saturday, April 15, 2000. I have on my desk the headlines in yesterday's paper: "BLACK FRIDAY - BIGGEST ONE-DAY DROP IN HISTORY." The Dow fell 618 points - the Nasdaq fell 355. I do not know what is coming in the next sixty days. If the market bounces back, I can assure you it will be temporary. THE CRASH IS INEVITABLE - NOTHING CAN STOP IT.​

That is why I said hie Doctrinal cheese slid off the cracker.

If it had been a WoF minister giving these words it would be all over CF.

 

[Yitzchak]

When Rev. Wilkerson Started his ministry and through the early to mid 80's he was a pretty solid preacher. The Cross and the Switchblade propelled him into the public eye.

But in the mid to late 90's something with him changed. He started as a "Prophet" and things got strange from there.

Truth be told - David Wilkerson has given a number of failed prophecies before.

1. 1000 Fires in NYC by 1993I have had recurring visions of over 1,000 fires burning at one time here in New York city. I am convinced race riots will soon explode! New York City is right now a powder keg-ready to blow!...federal and State Welfare cutbacks will be the spark that ignites the fuse. Next year, New York City could have over 100,000 angry men on the streets, enraged because they have been cut off from benefits....Federal troops will have to move in to restore order. New York City will have tanks running down its avenues....Churches will be closed for a season because it will be too dangerous to travel about. Fires will rage everywhere. (Prophecy from Sept. 7, 1992)

2. The End of Gospel Television by 1999 "Right now I sense in my spirit that in less than 5 years there will be no more so-called gospel television networks. They will all fall into bankruptcy and absolute ruin." (Solomon Church Dec. 12, 1994)

3. Financial Crash in 2000 For the last two years I have been crying aloud, warning all who would hear that America is receiving her last call and that judgment is at the door. I did not say this was the end of the nation, but the last call before a financial crash." (April 15, 2000).
I am writing this letter to you on Saturday, April 15, 2000. I have on my desk the headlines in yesterday's paper: "BLACK FRIDAY - BIGGEST ONE-DAY DROP IN HISTORY." The Dow fell 618 points - the Nasdaq fell 355. I do not know what is coming in the next sixty days. If the market bounces back, I can assure you it will be temporary. THE CRASH IS INEVITABLE - NOTHING CAN STOP IT.​

That is why I said hie Doctrinal cheese slid off the cracker.

If it had been a WoF minister giving these words it would be all over CF.

I have to agree that he has not had a very good track record as a prophet. he has a pretty good track record as a pastor. I have to wonder if he was cut out for the role of national leader to the American church. Being successful in ministry does not mean someone is qualified to play the role of overseer or prophet on a national level.

This has been one of my criticisms of the word of faith movement and of Charismatics , in general. In the early years they grew very quickly and sometimes the wrong people were propelled into leadership roles that they were not suited for. I think this has hurt the movement and gave it some bad press. I think there is some irony here because that is that same thing that seems to have hurt the times square church leadership.

 

[Always in His Presence]

This has been one of my criticisms of the word of faith movement and of Charismatics , in general. In the early years they grew very quickly and sometimes the wrong people were propelled into leadership roles that they were not suited for. I think this has hurt the movement and gave it some bad press. I think there is some irony here because that is that same thing that seems to have hurt the times square church leadership.

Agreed, it is when people are elevated to a position God had not called them to, or they are not prepared for that their short comings come to light. But, I would submit that it is not a uniquely Charismatic or Word of Faith issue. Look at Jerry Fallwell our Baptist Brother or any number of others. It's not an issue soley with Charis/PC

 

[jiminpa]

I have very strong and very mixed feelings about David Wilkerson. Someone said he was good until the mid-eighties, and that is about right, with this caveat--he was "destined" to lose his mind. Read what he says about his grandfather in The Cross and the Switchblade. David paints a glowing picture of his grandfather, frauding his employer and blocking men from getting to work during rush hour. David's grandfather was a fire and brimstone you can never be good enough tyrant, who drove his own son to nearly die of ulcers. Sooner or later David Wilkerson was going to sell out to the approval of his dead grandfather, and the only way to do that was to convince every Christian in the world that they weren't holy enough.

In the early eighties God showed David Wilkerson that he was judging on appearances and reminded him in definite terms that He looks beyond appearances to the heart. David wrote about that word from God. A few years later David decided that God's substantive judgement wasn't good enough and had what he had written previously about God looking to the heart pulled from publication and distribution, and decided that God had decided that it was okay to judge on nothing but appearances.

I read the book "Set the Trumpet to Thy Mouth" and took it to heart despite the check in my spirit from God that I dismissed as me just not wanting to be challenged. That was 1986 and my walk with God is still not what it was. David Wilkerson had become smarter than God and took to destroying people to try to appease the expectations of his dead grandfather.

The difficult part is that David never quite forgot what he once understood about God's grace and how it is the empowerment of true righteousness, and sometimes that still found its way into his writings. But still David had no problem preaching against people being obedient to God as though it was them who were in sin by seeking God's approval rather than David Wilkerson's.

David Wilkerson from about 1985 on, mostly preached poison salted with some truth. It's sad, because he probably meant well and thought he was on God's path, and he was just another do what looks right rather than what is right, psuedo-holiness preacher.

 

[Alpine]

I loved his newsletters -- read them a lot in the early 90s. I have a bunch of cassette's of his from a conference back then too. Have a few of his books. Even a music CD from his church. So, I guess you could say I was a bit of a Wilkerson junkie.

At one point though, I realized he was a bit of a legalist and I let him go.

I try not to let legalist poison into my veins anymore.

 

[Yitzchak]

Agreed, it is when people are elevated to a position God had not called them to, or they are not prepared for that their short comings come to light. But, I would submit that it is not a uniquely Charismatic or Word of Faith issue. Look at Jerry Fallwell our Baptist Brother or any number of others. It's not an issue soley with Charis/PC

I certainly agree with that. Very few seem to be able to handle the kind of success that goes with a worldwide mega ministry. And it is not just the leaders. People want a hero to look up to. Having millions of people hanging on your every word is a big challenge for anyone to handle.

 

[lismore]

I think he was a very good evangelist, at least in his early days. That was perhaps where his gifting lay.

But if his later teaching was so harsh that it was even repelling veteran believers then perhaps teaching was not his gift.

There are other very good evangelists, like Morris Cerullo. However sometimes when they stray from their ministry and into another, not so good.

Or Benny Hinn. At a Benny Hinn Crusade there is often very good P+W. Very anointed. However the teaching can be goobledygook.

 

[Yitzchak]

I think he was a very good evangelist, at least in his early days. That was perhaps where his gifting lay.

But if his later teaching was so harsh that it was even repelling veteran believers then perhaps teaching was not his gift.

There are other very good evangelists, like Morris Cerullo. However sometimes when they stray from their ministry and into another, not so good.

Or Benny Hinn. At a Benny Hinn Crusade there is often very good P+W. Very anointed. However the teaching can be goobledygook.

I thought of Benny Hinn when I was mentioning people who are operating outsides of their gifts. Todd Bentley is perhaps another example. I think it would give these ministries a lot more balance if they were not a one man show , but instead had several people operating in different gifts. One of the patterns that seems to emerge a lot if that these big ministries have one big personality and they surround themselves with yes men and pretty well dominate the entire ministry. It seems to happen in ministries where someone is extremely gifted and the ministry grows very quickly around that one person's gifts.

 

[Andrea411]

David Wilkerson is famous for the ministry teen challenge and will always be remembered for his work with the gangs in New York.

But what about his teachings ? He started out as a typical Assembly of God pastor from a small church in a small town in Pennsylvania. But after God took him to new York and his name became well known , Wilkerson went in a different direction than most well known preachers of our day. He became very , very radical. His supporters love it and his critics think he went off the deep end a little. One thing is certain. His preaching left little room for being neutral. Either a person has grave concerns and deep disagreements with it or they think he is one of the few true prophetic voices crying out to our generation.

His sermons have titles like " a call to anguish " and " how to resurrect a dead church ". He preaches against things like television a sin and I would classify him as a revival preacher , but not the same type of revival preacher who has the big stadium crowds and a lot of healings. He is the type of revival preacher who says God is about to send judgment and we better repent and be a lot more serio7us about it than we are comfortable being.

Wilkerson says things like this...



and this...




and this...



and this...



and this ...




I listened to his sermon , " a call to anguish " , and I was both convicted and troubled. Convicted that obviously Wilkerson takes this stuff a lot more seriously than I do and I think perhaps I am quite stoic about things that are driving some saints to tears. But troubled because I asked my self the question , " is this healthy , has Wilkerson gone off the deep end ? "

Now Wilkerson has passed away , but he has disciples who live on and preach the same message.


So I pose this question. Setting aside his teen challenge work which was obviously good. What about his radical teachings ? Did he go off the deep end and get into a bunch of anti grace error ? Or did he get it bang on ? Or is he the third option . A mixed bag ? Some good and some bad ?

Please try to keep it civil. This is open to anyone to post your view. Both for and against. radical or neutral.

If I were to give an opinion it would be positive ….. this man brought more people to Christ then I will ever even attempt… so I would never express any dissatisfaction with him…. everyone disagrees about something…
powerful ministry, test all things keep the good…

God bless, andrea

 

[Andrea411]

I thought of Benny Hinn when I was mentioning people who are operating outsides of their gifts. Todd Bentley is perhaps another example. I think it would give these ministries a lot more balance if they were not a one man show , but instead had several people operating in different gifts. One of the patterns that seems to emerge a lot if that these big ministries have one big personality and they surround themselves with yes men and pretty well dominate the entire ministry. It seems to happen in ministries where someone is extremely gifted and the ministry grows very quickly around that one person's gifts.

I like what Billy Graham did to keep himself in check. He had a group of men he made himself accountable to. My thought is that when ever your in the spotlight… the devil gets hot on your tail, weaknesses get exposed, ego gets in the way…. its very difficult to walk focused on Christ when everyone is pulling at your coat tails….. and of course pride….. it must be so difficult not to try to live up to expectations and NOT to believe the hype….
Its so easy to criticize bc their theology is out there to be examined and critiqued. Todd Bentley is a good example of someone who was swept up into instant celebrity and fell on his face… he needed to be answerable to someone… and he needed to test his prophetic gift before he started seeing angels and preaching angels. We will never know what he saw 'Emma' the angel or 'financial angels' but if he'd made himself accountable to others he would have seen how dangerous it is to preach angels… bc the devil can come as an angel. Angels will never receive worship or desire to be the center of attention, they are always to bring forth God's word. They don't come with their own. Yes, charismatics can be so off but its bc there is actually something going on, in so many churches its easy bc they don't do anything….
I think most people learn a lot from their mistakes, unfortunately for ministers/pastors/evangelists - once they publicly make mistakes, it seems thats what people want to remember.
And there does need to be correction, but how that happens IDK…. seems there should be an 'office of accountability'. We all need to learn to submit and we all need to learn humility… most of us don't have to do it in public.
God bless, andrea