David and Jonathan

[david_x]

Sex is to be rejoyced, whatever it's form (bearing in mind Wiccan morality: harm none).

Well then homosexuality should be considered bad. It is a selfish act. It derives from narsasistic. (Not in all situations, but it is always from somthing like that.)

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Well then homosexuality should be considered bad.

How did you derive this from my excerpt?

It is a selfish act. It derives from narsasistic. (Not in all situations, but it is always from somthing like that.)

Justification?

 

[david_x]

Justification?

Ex gay testimony. (namely mine and some others I have read)

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Ex gay testimony. (namely mine and some others I have read)

Just because you say that homosexuality stems from narcissism does not make it so. When I asked for justification, I thought it was obvious that I was referring to your broadbrushing.

 

[david_x]

Just because you say that homosexuality stems from narcissism does not make it so. When I asked for justification, I thought it was obvious that I was referring to your broadbrushing.

(Not in all situations, but it is always from somthing like that.)

Broadbrushing, I don't think so.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Broadbrushing, I don't think so.

(Not in all situations, but it is always from somthing like that.)

You quite clearly stated that it is always something 'like that'.

 

[david_x]

You quite clearly stated that it is always something 'like that'

Well yeah, but I did not limit it to just one sin.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Well yeah, but I did not limit it to just one sin.

Non sequitur. You explicitly stated that homosexuality always stems from something akin to narcissism. Can you justify this statement?

 

[david_x]

Non sequitur. You explicitly stated that homosexuality always stems from something akin to narcissism. Can you justify this statement?

Narcisim is a sin, thus it is akin to the other sins.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Narcisim is a sin, thus it is akin to the other sins.

So you retract your statement that homosexuality stems from narcissism?

 

[jojored]

I haven't been online in several days and love to see that the "debate" goes on. I have tried to catch up and some the threads mention that if it were known "David and Jonathan" would have been put to death.

Well, I first believe that it was known by "GOD" and at the least suspected by Saul as found in Samuel I: 30: then Saul's anger was aroused agains Jonathan, and he said to him, " You son of a perverse, rebellious woman! Do I not know that you have chosen the son of Jesse (David) to your own shame and to the shame of your mother's nakedness:

I would like the opinion of not only ex-gays, but ex-ex-gays.

 

[david_x]

So you retract your statement that homosexuality stems from narcissism?

I did not say it stems from narcissism solely.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

I did not say it stems from narcissism solely.

Indeed. Nevertheless, my question still stands.

 

[david_x]

Indeed. Nevertheless, my question still stands.

No it does not. I did say the thing that you are asking if I retracted.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

No it does not. I did say the thing that you are asking if I retracted.

You cannot say what you have retracted without being a hypocrite. Do you retract the claim that homosexuality stems from narcissism?

 

[david_x]

You cannot say what you have retracted without being a hypocrite. Do you retract the claim that homosexuality stems from narcissism?

No. Just not all of it.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

No. Just not all of it.

Then demonstrate said claim. Demonstrate it, or retract it.

 

[david_x]

Then demonstrate said claim. Demonstrate it, or retract it.

It is the testimony of multiple "ex-gays."

 

[Wiccan_Child]

It is the testimony of multiple "ex-gays."

Testimony is not demonstration. Testimony is the attempt to convey subjective evidence, which is by definition useless in objective inquiry. Indeed, I could just as easily cite my own testimony supporting my points and opposing yours.

 

[david_x]

Testimony is not demonstration. Testimony is the attempt to convey subjective evidence, which is by definition useless in objective inquiry. Indeed, I could just as easily cite my own testimony supporting my points and opposing yours.

Well, to be quite honest, there is no better person to learn from than the one that has fallen.