daughter in dysfunctional relationship

[Parentof3]

My 16 year old daughter is in a very intense and serious romantic relationship. It started back in December and her life has gone downhill every since. She dropped out of student ministry leadership and doesn't go to church anymore. She dropped all of her friends. The boyfriend dropped out of high school and has no job. They are miserable when they are together and miserable when they are together (and so is everyone around them). They bicker and try to control one another. We've gone through two occasions when tensions escalated into a major fight and subsequent 'break-up'. I see some great advice has been given on this site for other parents. What would you recommend that I do as a parent in this situation? I try very hard NOT to criticize the boyfriend as it is clear that they are bad for each other and one person is not completely at fault. Neither has a driver's license and he lives in another town. Last week I told her I wouldn't drive her to his house anymore because the relationship is destructive but that I would pick her up. His mother comes and gets her twice a week on her off days. On the other days when she knows she can't see him, she has begun to re-engage with friends and re-establish her life. But she is still very hateful to me about the whole thing. Am I on the right track? Suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I am tempted to completely forbid her to see him. She also cuts when things are particularly bad with him and has given up her precious virginity.

 

[gengwall]

Well - I'm sure you are expecting and prepared for the worst. Here goes.

I would have never let the relationship begin at all. I think 16 is too young to engage in serious romantic relationships. So, I think you are behind the 8 ball right away. I also think you are in a catch 22. My recommendation would be to not allow them to see each other but her cutting and the inevitable backlash against you are very real considerations as well.

First thing I would do is get her therapy for the cutting. That always stems from very real psychological problems.

Next, and in conjunction, you need to help her build her self esteem. Right now she is getting her affirmation from this bad relationship. I know that sounds insane but it is true. She wants to feel grown up and in control and this is how she does it. But she isn't grown up or in control. She needs another positive and healthy way to feel like she is significant. Are there any activities which she likes - sports, arts, etc? If so, invest in those (this will require time on your part). Also invest in family activities. Church may or may not help. It is just as likely to be part of the problem (my daughters avoided church "friends" as they were very unaccepting and judgemental).

Finally, she is 16 so not a complete idiot. I think she and you would benefit from some very frank, "grown-up" conversations about this relationship and purity and boys in general. I think she would be the first to admit she is not ready for marriage, yet that is what romantic dating is soley for. Have her explore intellectually (and biblically) the sense of her being romantic at this age. Help her understand all of the things that she is missing because of this "detour" in her teen years. There is so much more for her out there. Romance can wait.

I wish I could be more positive. The reality is that she has crossed a number of lines and pulling her back over to the healthy side of life will be a struggle. I know of one dear sister here (she will probably jump in here soon enough) who had to take the extreem step of sending her daughter away. This has caused great personal pain for her but will, in the long run I believe, turn out to be the best choice. Stay strong. Through God all things are possible.

 

[JeffsGirl]

I am 16 myself.

First off, DO NOT tell her what to do. DO NOT give advice about breaking up and leaving him or forcing her to do so. It will just make her resent you more and want to be with him more just because you don't like it. Just because you force her to leave him doesn't mean she really is. Sure she will play like she has to you but there is nothing stopping her from staying with him. Trust me..been there done that..moved on. Just leave it be. She will have to make the decision on her own. She isn't a little girl and can make her own decisions. She sees how the relationship is and she needs time to think about that. Let her know you are always there for her to just talk and you won't get mad about anything she says to you and she just might open up and dump the loser. Of course a parent must always be a parent so if her life is in danger then definately step in. But sometimes us teens don't need our parents...sometimes we need our parents to be our friends and not get mad at some of the things we say and just talk things out with us like grown ups.

Hope I helped in some way.

 

[gengwall]

I am 16 myself.

First off, DO NOT tell her what to do. DO NOT give advice about breaking up and leaving him or forcing her to do so. It will just make her resent you more and want to be with him more just because you don't like it. Just because you force her to leave him doesn't mean she really is. Sure she will play like she has to you but there is nothing stopping her from staying with him. Trust me..been there done that..moved on. Just leave it be. She will have to make the decision on her own. She isn't a little girl and can make her own decisions. She sees how the relationship is and she needs time to think about that. Let her know you are always there for her to just talk and you won't get mad about anything she says to you and she just might open up and dump the loser. Of course a parent must always be a parent so if her life is in danger then definately step in. But sometimes us teens don't need our parents...sometimes we need our parents to be our friends and not get mad at some of the things we say and just talk things out with us like grown ups.

Hope I helped in some way.

Spoken like a little girl.

Sorry, parenting isn't as easy as "ignore it and it will go away". This girl needs guidance as she is clearly incapable of making sound, healthy decisions. There is no easy solution here but leaving her to her own immature and unhealthy devices is a bad parenting.

 

[JeffsGirl]

I'm a little girl? What a way to judge someone! No if she does interact with the girls relationship with the boy it will very possibly make the situation much worse. I have been there with my own parents before. I didn't say ignore it! I said to step behind the side lines for a while and let the daughter open up! Forcing her to do stuff when she is old enough to make her own decisions is hindering her from growing up. She will never be able to successfully think for herself. She has to make the decisions about her own life. It is HER life! The mom should watch and be aware of what is happening and be there for her when she needs her most. The girl needs to feel like she can open up to her mom with decisions like this instead of being forced to do something. If she does feel safe to open up to her mom she will but until then the situation will just escalade.

I will be a parent myself in January!

 

[gibbs]

Spoken like a little girl.

I beg your pardon.

Now before you rush to say "hey ~ another 17 year old"....

I don't have any great advice, other than as a teen watching my parents deal with a sibling, the best parenting usually lies somewhere in between the two stubborn sides. Please remember that there are at least two sides to everything, if not more. While you, gengwall, are blessed with wisdom from many years of experience, JeffsGirl is blessed with empathy and the ability to relate as a peer.

I know very little about parenting ~ I've never done it, I've only experienced it. But, I think it is similar to many other leadership roles that I have been involved with - there is a time for discipline and authority, and there is a time for listening and love. Well, this forum is a place for that love and listening, not for judging and attacking. Unfortunately, when I get into this section on CF, I feel like it is a very rough place for non-traditionalists/younger people. The kind of bullying above is not the behavior that will encourage us younger ones to look above for advice ~ an expectation of criticism is a pretty thick wall.

I'm sorry if I've come across as harsh in this. I've come through here before, and watched teens be flamed, and felt like the thoughts of the teen didn't at all count. For me, at least, I know my parents don't know absolutely everything happening in my life, and thus they don't always have the full picture when making decisions. I don't think I'm the only example of this. Yet, I also respect that those of you with more experience hold a wealth of information, one which I hope to tap into when I get to the parenting stage.

Can we please foster an environment of caring and listening, not bullying? If we want to raise children who listen and love ~ must we all not do the same?

Eric

 

[indagroove]

Spoken like a little girl.

Sorry, parenting isn't as easy as "ignore it and it will go away". This girl needs guidance as she is clearly incapable of making sound, healthy decisions. There is no easy solution here but leaving her to her own immature and unhealthy devices is a bad parenting.

As a parent of many girls I'm with gengwall.

Pregnant at 16 is what we are trying to avoid ! Our 24 yo went that course and by 21 had 4 babies. 3 of which became wards of the state, so we had to get custody of them too !!! Just what my wife and I wanted, more babies just when we started making retirement plans. Talk about your savings going away fast !

We might impersonally flame a teenager, but we really hate seeing teenagers go down in flames. Those flames never extinguish, they will burn for a very, very, very long time. We would much rather see our girls go to college without a baby on her hip, because the odds of graduation with a degree are against the single working mom.


Parenting is 24/7, and is simular to nothing else in this world. You cannot even imagine what it is like to get up every morning to a house of screaming kids. No, there is no sleeping in , EVER.

To the OP....Telling her to stop seeing him will not work. But that should stop you from telling her she is not allowed. At 16 they have no real relationship tools to work with. But you sure can take everything away. No money, no car, no cell phone. They may hate you, but what else is new. They've been saying "I Hate You" since age 8. This is real life. All choices have lasting consequenses. By age 17, she'll be talking about getting an apartment. Let her know she can take anything in her room, but that's all. No car if you gave her a car, take it back. No cell phone, NO MONEY !!!

Tough love is the role here. DO not judge, but do not condone either. Love her when she comes back very wounded, and her soul has been shredded.

 

[gengwall]

I appologize for the length but I feel it all must be said.

I beg your pardon.

Now before you rush to say "hey ~ another 17 year old"....

I don't have any great advice, other than as a teen watching my parents deal with a sibling, the best parenting usually lies somewhere in between the two stubborn sides. Please remember that there are at least two sides to everything, if not more. While you, gengwall, are blessed with wisdom from many years of experience, JeffsGirl is blessed with empathy and the ability to relate as a peer.

She can relate as a peer to the child, but not to the parents. Empathy for an irresponsible, immature, rebellious child is misplaced. If you want to have empathy, have it for the parents who have to deal with this (as most of us do on a day to day basis). It would be truly refreshing to find a teen who had the maturity to put themselves in our shoes for a day and understand how dreadfully they behave and how terrifying and difficult our job is. Do that, and then one can speak of empathy.

I know very little about parenting ~ I've never done it, I've only experienced it.

A good start - admitting ignorance is the first step in true learning.

But, I think it is similar to many other leadership roles that I have been involved with - there is a time for discipline and authority, and there is a time for listening and love.

Frankly - it isn't. Just as marriage is a completely different social structure than any other one on one relationship, parenting is a completely different social structure than any other authoritarian one where many of the rules of leadership simply don't apply. If my boss says "go do x", or "don't do y", he/she knows I don't have the option of responding "I hate you, I can run my own life and I don't have to do what you say." The scenarios simply can't be overlaid. Parenting, like marriage, is a completely different animal with mostly different tools and approaches.

Well, this forum is a place for that love and listening, not for judging and attacking.

True - but it is also a place where "iron sharpens iron". If bad advice is given, it needs to be exposed as bad advice. Sometimes, it is true that we may have chosen a poor way to express ourselves. But, "if you can't stand the heat..."

Unfortunately, when I get into this section on CF, I feel like it is a very rough place for non-traditionalists/younger people. The kind of bullying above is not the behavior that will encourage us younger ones to look above for advice ~ an expectation of criticism is a pretty thick wall.

Well, consider what this forum is. It is a place for parents of teens to share and be counseled. In some respects, only parents of teens should even be posting here. Although I personally appreciate other perspectives, I also am not about to let bad advice go unchallenged.

I'm sorry if I've come across as harsh in this.

Not at all. I don't think you (or JeffsGirl) are harsh at all.

I've come through here before, and watched teens be flamed, and felt like the thoughts of the teen didn't at all count.

Well, as I mentioned above, to a certain extent, they don't. That may sound insensitive, but it is the truth. Although a teen's perspective is welcome so that we can have a glimpse into contemproary teen culture, (even though you often forget that we were teens once too), it may or may not be of any practical value. In my experience (vast) working with teens, they rarely have the right perspective or attitude to contribute to solutions. More often than not, they only compound the problem.

For me, at least, I know my parents don't know absolutely everything happening in my life, and thus they don't always have the full picture when making decisions. I don't think I'm the only example of this. Yet, I also respect that those of you with more experience hold a wealth of information, one which I hope to tap into when I get to the parenting stage.

You have highlighted our dilema. Our biggest fear is about the stuff we don't know because we can't provide the best guidance. Let me ask you this. Most of the time kids get themselves in trouble, is it about stuff their parents were fully informed about or stuff they withheld from their parents? I suspect I know the answer. Think about it for a while and then consider if withholding information about your life from your parents in the name of privacy and "it's my life", or even to avoid supervision and discipline, is actually in a teenager's best interest or not. Contrary to popular teen belief, parents do not wake up every morning thinking "how can I spoil all of my child's fun and make their life miserable?" It's much more like "how can I keep them alive one more day." If you are withholding information from your parents, it should be a sure sign to you that it is an area of your life that you need guidance in.

I was indeed a teen once. I was rebellious, stubborn, and argumentative. I made my parent's (mostly my mom's) life miserable. But at the time, I thought they were irrational idiots who had no idea what my life was like or how I should live it. Such is the ego-centric perspective of teens. I couldn't wait to get out on my own. Moreover, I was positive that I would not make the same "mistakes" they did when I had children. Three things happened to me in my twenties that radically changed my perspective on parenting.

The first happened when I was around 22, just out of college and living on my own for the first time. I literally woke up in a cold sweat in the middle of the night from the terrifying realization that my parents had actually been right about pretty much everything. I realized how much of a brat I had been and how I was actually the irrational one. I tell you truly that this was a humiliating realization. I wondered how I actually made it through my teen years without killing myself or ending up in jail. When I think of all the stupid, dangerous things I did and kept secret from them it scares me to death. (Note to teens - your parents probably know a lot more about your life than you think.)

The next thing that happened was about a year later, when I was dating my future wife. My roommate from college was "visiting" me (actually, he was bumming a place to live as he was out of work...again). I was working full time but worked odd shifts so I was off during the day one day and we were sitting outside on the lawn enjoying a beer. He said something to me that profoundly impacted my life view. He said, "why can't things just stay the way they were in highschool." My immediate thought was "are you nuts!" But as I considered his words more, they became even more pathetic. What he really was saying was "why can't we stay children." But I didn't want that life anymore. It was nice while it lasted, but it was much more interesting, exciting, and productive to be an adult. And that is the point I am trying to make. Despite an individual teen's circumstances and how "mature" they may consider themselves, they are, all of them, still non-adults. They don't have the responsibilities of adults, they don't have the critical thinking skills of adults, they don't have the experience of adults (see 1 Cor verse below). Most graduate out of that condition into adulthood and then come to realize how silly they once were. I made the final leap that day. I put childish things behind me for good and became a man. Unfortunately, a few, like my roommate, never grow up.

And the final important thing that happened to me was the birth of our first daughter. Indeed, I rededicated myself to not making the mistakes my parents had. But it turns out that the mistakes were exactly opposite of what I thought they were when I was a teen. Instead of giving my kids more freedom (which is what I wanted as a teen), I (we) became more invovled in their lives than my parents had ever been. (My parents were great, but they should have been harder on me and supervised me more). I determined that, at least while on my watch, they would never get themselves in a (truly dangerous or unhealthy) situation where they had to rely soley on their poorly developed critical decision making skills. That doesn't mean we locked our kids in their rooms for 18 years. And it doesn't mean that they didn't get away with some stuff or keep some things secret from us. And most importantly, it doesn't mean they didn't have fun. But we left them very little wiggle room. We always knew where they were and who they were with and we actively (and sometimes, covertly) supervised and guided both their activities and their friendships. We trusted them only to the extent that they earned our trust. Trust and privacy are not rights for a teen, they are earned benefits of responsible behavior and attitudes. They are now 19 and 21 and, although they haven't yet reached their "aha" moment about us mostly being right, they are mature, responsible, and pure, young women. Call me arrogant but I (we) claim a lot of the credit for that.

So, when some kid comes on here spouting "advice" that sounds a whole lot like the kind of advice I would have given as a teen, it sets off alarms in my head and I want to make certain that other parents don't heed it.

Can we please foster an environment of caring and listening, not bullying? If we want to raise children who listen and love ~ must we all not do the same?

Eric

Of course - but we are (mostly) adults here and adults don't let stuff slide. It isn't bullying. Doubt me? Look how Jesus often talked to his disciples and especially how he addressed the religious leaders. He didn't pull any (verbal) punches when he encountered error in their thoughts, words, and deeds. Sometimes, tough love requires tough words.

Two verses a teen may want to consider when thinking about parenting and whether they are ready to contribute to a discussion of it.

Proverbs 22:6 Train a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it.

Training requires action and discipline. Sometimes, it requires literal interference. Sometimes, it requires letting the child find their own way. These are the hardest decisions a parent has to make and they are sometimes heartbreaking. Only when a teen understands and is ready to accept such a burden will they realize that parental love may be the toughest love of all.

1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.

Teens simply are not adults. They talk like children, think like children, and, especially, reason like children. In reality, a teen perspective is a child's perspective. The perspectives needed here are adult ones. Very few teens have made that leap. So, when I say someone has spoken "like a little girl", I am simply speaking truth. Such a person has not put their childish ways behind them. And make no mistake - engaging in adult behaviors or having adult like circumstances thrust upon you does not make you an adult. Until you actually become an adult by abolishing your childish talk, thoughts, and reasoning, taking your advice would be...well...unadvisable.

One final "reality check" note. Do you really think that the best advice for a parent trying to help their 16 year old develop mature, healthy relationships and remain pure is going to come from a sexually immoral, unwed, pregnant 16 year old? The whole idea is preposterous.

 

[gengwall]

I'm a little girl? What a way to judge someone!

In the first place, I said you spoke like a little girl. Of course, you are in reality a child as well so I'm not judging, just relating facts. My specific use of the term "little girl" was an exageration and reversal of your use of the same term when you said "she isn't a little girl and can make her own decisions". Maybe I should have bolded that part of your post so you would understand the literary device I was employing.

 

[BrBob]

Gengwall is right. Younger teens are physically incapable of making decisions the way adults do because of the undeveloped areas in their brains. It's not a judgment! It's a fact of life. Just because a young person 'feels' grown up doesn't mean they really are.

That is what makes being a teen so difficult. Here you are, brand new body with brand new thoughts and desires, you are attractive as all get out and you don't have the decision making abilities needed to make mature decisions most of the time. Tough spot. The thing is though, as you grow and make decisions and learn the correct way, those areas in your brain develop and mature. Growth happens, praise God!

Oh, by the way. To the OP - why don't you have a talk with the young man's mother who picks your daughter up. Maybe if she is on the same page as you she would stop enabling them to get together?

Hang in there!

Bob
Spearfish, SD

 

[tessas212]

While I do not advise you permanently forbid her to see him, I do agree with your choices to make it harder for her to see him, and hopefully spend more time away from him. Also, I woudl demand that a parent or group setting is always the situation when they see each other, to prevent further sexual relationship. Sometimes it takes a biiig step back to see something about yourself or your relationships.

As much as you want to just keep your child safe, don't forget to make yourself available and appear very much available for talking. When she rebels and questions, don't argue and fight. That will only creat more resentment. And, with enough patience and ignoring the fighting and resentful attitude, one can only hope that she'll eventually come to you to talk, and when or if she does, my advice is to just tell her why and how you feel without insulting to the best of your ability.

Yes, protect her, but don't forget the importance of a relationship. Be firm in your decision and role as protector of your child, but don't forget patience and kindness.

 

[tessas212]

Can we please foster an environment of caring and listening, not bullying? If we want to raise children who listen and love ~ must we all not do the same?

Eric

"If we love them, if we respect them, ... then we also have an obligation to listen to what they have to say."

And one other quote that has some relevance to this thread, IMO

"In any relationship, feedback(even unwelcome feedback that indicates great frustration and anger) is an opportunity to examine the underlying problem and work to find a resolution. to ignore what otehrs tell us about their frustration or anger or fear is emotionally cruel and will eventually erode relationships at a very deep level."