Dating to marry

[Alizera]

I messed around with Mr. Wrong for three months. The night I walked out on him, I went to my Dad whom I hadn't seen in ages. Dad had hired an investigator and handed me the file. Hoo boy!

Betrothal varies in different cultures.

The process in my husband's culture:
1) The parents decide their child is ready to marry.
2) The parents do a search and find a candidate.
3) the two fathers negotiate a contract--usually a legally enforceable contract.
4) The two who are to marry have an obligation to their fathers, not to each other. This is a marriage of two families.
4a) There is a betrothal ceremony in which the father of the bride announces that he is pledging his daughter, handing the other father a dowery. (Mine was one gold Kugerrand) The commitment comes into being with that.
5) There is a period of preparation for marriage, the "children" communicating with their parents, the two sets of parents communicate with each other. This way, the parents exercise their control and good judgment over the courtship.
6) On the wedding day, the pair being married walk around the sacred fire seven times, each time asking the god Agni for particular things that make for a good marriage---not vows but requests of this god. The commitment came to be at the betrothal and it was the fathers who committed.
7) After marriage, the couple lives with the groom's family so the bride can receive instruction from her mum-in-law how to pamper her husband in the manner that he has been accustomed since birth. Bride is 16 or 17; groom 18 to 20 or so.

That's the traditional process in Northern India. In modern families, the children get married somewhat older and they have veto power on their parents' selection of a mate. But even today, there are some upper-class families in which the girl gets to see a photograph of her groom and the groom doesn't see his bride's face until he lifts the veil after the fire walk.

My husband and I did a lot of side-stepping of tradition but all the traditional elements were more or less present--- a betrothal with a contract that involved a substantial amount in escrow, a list of the bride's and groom's wants, time frames for intermingling Christian and Hindu weddings. Our parents were very much involved in our courtship after the betrothal. There was a purification rite that prevented a wedding night after our Christian wedding. It was an adventure. Dear hubbie and I joke that we will avoid divorce at all costs because we don't want to go through THAT again.

God bless,

That's really interesting! So are you and your husband both from Northern India...or just him?

 

[Rebekka]

I wouldn't say don't date anyone unless you could see yourself marrying them - very few people would be dating if that were the case!

Why would that be a bad thing?


I agree with Morning Glory.

I do not agree with casual dating, "dating around", or dating with no purpose. I believe if you set out with the idea to date or find someone to date, you are looking to get married.

If you then find someone, and you decide it will be a relationship, it is assumed that this relationship is working toward the eventual purpose of marriage.

While I'm not suggesting every dating relationship should or will end in marriage, I'm saying that dating just for the purpose of dating, dating just for the purpose of company, dating just for the purpose of physical activity, or dating with no purpose at all, is not appropriate.

I also believe that the moment you realize the relationship is 100% not marriage material, that should probably be the end of it.

 

[dandymandy]

That's really interesting! So are you and your husband both from Northern India...or just him?

Neither.

My husband's parents are from different parts of India separated by two levels of caste and two denominations of Hinduism. Wach was sent to the UK for university. The met fell deeply in lust at which point my husband was conceived. Oopsie. They got a sudden civil marriage and weren't really welcome back to India.

My husband is Hindu, but Scottish culturally. He and I went to India after the weddings to meet relatives. He realised that he is not Asian but Anglo.

I am an American raised an atheist. Accepted baptism three years ago and then proceded to marry out of faith.

His parents were hoping he would get it "right". He got it "righter" but not as right as what his mother had hoped.

God bless,

 

[Windmill]

One of my friends once told me that you wouldn't seriously date somebody unless you imagined yourself marrying them. Do you believe that's true? Do you see yourself marrying the person you're currently with right now?

Just curious.

I don't really see myself marrying who I am with now because I am too young to know what the future will hold. The future is unpredictable and my relationship does not rule my life as important as it is to me, God rules my life.

I don't see a problem with not dating for the purpose of marriage if both parties understand this. I also don't see a problem with dating without knowing what the future will hold but just enjoying what you have right now and taking it one step at a time, knowing you are enjoying each other company while you have it- if you both know this is what you are doing, and there are no promises.

 

[FOG]

Why would that be a bad thing?


I agree with Morning Glory.

Let me see if i can clarify a little bit. Whenever most married people started dating, they didn't already know they wanted to marry each other - they knew there was potential, but they still had to learn a lot about each other. After being together for a few months/years, they realize that this person is who they want to spend the rest of their life with, and they can see themselves marrying them.

I think I was using the term "see yourself marrying them" differently. Y'all were using it in the idea of "I could imagine myself marrying them" and I was using it in the idea of "When i think of my future, they are in it". Both are valid uses - but I can see how a misunderstanding could occur!

I do agree that less people dating would be good, as many of the dating relationships now days have absolutely no substance or meaning. And I definitely disagree with casual dating. But there does need to be a big step between dating and engagement, because you learn a lot more about someone when you are in a committed relationship with them. I agree that dating is for marriage, but I don't think you need to be totally confident about the prospect of marrying someone to start dating them.

 

[dandymandy]

Let me see if i can clarify a little bit. Whenever most married people started dating, they didn't already know they wanted to marry each other - they knew there was potential, but they still had to learn a lot about each other. After being together for a few months/years, they realize that this person is who they want to spend the rest of their life with, and they can see themselves marrying them.

I think I was using the term "see yourself marrying them" differently. Y'all were using it in the idea of "I could imagine myself marrying them" and I was using it in the idea of "When i think of my future, they are in it". Both are valid uses - but I can see how a misunderstanding could occur!

I do agree that less people dating would be good, as many of the dating relationships now days have absolutely no substance or meaning. And I definitely disagree with casual dating. But there does need to be a big step between dating and engagement, because you learn a lot more about someone when you are in a committed relationship with them. I agree that dating is for marriage, but I don't think you need to be totally confident about the prospect of marrying someone to start dating them.

My take on the meaning of "see yourself marrying them" was that a person was conceivable marriage material at any step along the way. Once a person is disqualified, then why continue dating? The only reason possibly why is that they might be a fun date but to continue for that reason maybe isn't such a good idea.

I don't consider an engaged couple to be in a committed relationship...not really committed. I see that as a status where there is a provisional agreement to marry but nothing binding beyond a promise for an exclusive relationship, for honest discussion, but with an understanding the engagement can and should be broken for any number of reasons.

God bless,

 

[HisLittleHazelnut]

I don't consider an engaged couple to be in a committed relationship...not really committed. I see that as a status where there is a provisional agreement to marry but nothing binding beyond a promise for an exclusive relationship, for honest discussion, but with an understanding the engagement can and should be broken for any number of reasons.

God bless,

What if said engaged couple has already sworn the wedding vows to each other, even in front of a few friends? Would you think that wouldn't be a committed relationship?

 

[dandymandy]

What if said engaged couple has already sworn the wedding vows to each other, even in front of a few friends? Would you think that wouldn't be a committed relationship?

Well.....I think there are three elements that bring a marriage into being:1) A private promise 2) Announcing that promise to the world (in practice to family and friends) and 3) Documenting that promise (marriage certificate for most of us, in 1800s Scotland a child, in Biblical times the memory of people who attended the betrothal).

From what you describe, it strikes me as a marriage came into being....no longer is it an engagement. (I hold that a wedding in church is a compartively recent frill)

Now take my case: I underwent a betrothal process. Our respective fathers promised to deliver each of me and my husband to the other. The couple's promise was to their respective fathers. There was a cash escrow, a legally binding written contract, and legal consideration (payment to establish a contract) of one gold Kugerrand was paid by my father to his mother. The interval between betrothal and wedding was supposed to be spent with us apart in spiritual preparation for marriage. The actual Hindu ceremony consisted of walking around a sacred fire asking a Hindu god for seven for things to make the marriage fruitful, happy....not vows to each other but praying to a god for certain bestowals.

Now, was I married at the betrothal ceremony? For certain reasons, I do not make that claim, mostly that it served our purposes to treat our pre-mature intercourse as pre-marital.

God bless,

 

[HisLittleHazelnut]

Well.....I think there are three elements that bring a marriage into being:1) A private promise 2) Announcing that promise to the world (in practice to family and friends) and 3) Documenting that promise (marriage certificate for most of us, in 1800s Scotland a child, in Biblical times the memory of people who attended the betrothal).

From what you describe, it strikes me as a marriage came into being....no longer is it an engagement. (I hold that a wedding in church is a compartively recent frill)

Ah but in my case, we haven't been able to legalize things yet. But we do hold each other fully committed to each other (even though we've been long distance for nearly 4 years now, due to stupid family rules and him nearly dying and having to go home.)

But I tell you, once even one of us has a decent job, it's happening RIGHT AWAY.

 

[Rebekka]

Let me see if i can clarify a little bit. Whenever most married people started dating, they didn't already know they wanted to marry each other - they knew there was potential, but they still had to learn a lot about each other. After being together for a few months/years, they realize that this person is who they want to spend the rest of their life with, and they can see themselves marrying them.

I think I was using the term "see yourself marrying them" differently. Y'all were using it in the idea of "I could imagine myself marrying them" and I was using it in the idea of "When i think of my future, they are in it". Both are valid uses - but I can see how a misunderstanding could occur!

I do agree that less people dating would be good, as many of the dating relationships now days have absolutely no substance or meaning. And I definitely disagree with casual dating. But there does need to be a big step between dating and engagement, because you learn a lot more about someone when you are in a committed relationship with them. I agree that dating is for marriage, but I don't think you need to be totally confident about the prospect of marrying someone to start dating them.

Thank you for your clarification!

What I meant is that if people see no potential and cannot see the other in their own future, then I don't see the point of dating. They don't have to get married rightaway, but they should be able to consider marriage with this particular person some day. So like you I disagree with casual dating.

I have to say that when I started to date my husband, I already knew I would marry him but that doesn't happen very often, and I certainly don't require this of other couples. We just knew pretty soon, before our first date started, actually.

 

[dandymandy]

Ah but in my case, we haven't been able to legalize things yet. But we do hold each other fully committed to each other (even though we've been long distance for nearly 4 years now, due to stupid family rules and him nearly dying and having to go home.)

But I tell you, once even one of us has a decent job, it's happening RIGHT AWAY.

Very well.

The central question is: do you and your other concider yourselves married? If you don't think you are then you are not. You have a significant step yet to go.

I have to own up to my thinking in black and white terms---there are varying degrees of commitment.

I had a b/f at age 14 for almost two years whom I didn't like---a b/f for the sake of having a b/f. No commitment there on the part of either of us.

I had a number of dates in boarding school, never with the same boy twice in a row. No commitment there.

I dated a man in university for almost three months. I had no commitment; though he was committed to getting me into bed.

Then my betrothal---full blown commitment.

My best wishes for one of you finding a job. It's time you took ownership of yourself.

God bless,

 

[JesusFreak4L]

My girlfriend and I although some people would say we are to young to be talking about marriage, we are planning on being engaged in two years and then married in 3!

 

[KGirl]

I had a strange situation where I kind of dated this guy who was a "bad boy" and it wasn't long ago. I was so infatuated with him and knew he wasn't marriage material. I also knew that it seemed like no matter how much I tried to fight it, I couldn't keep myself from being drawn in. And I mean I tried just about everything besides getting a self restraining order. What ended up happening was I was honest and told him that I like him, but I didn't think God wanted me with him. So we did this strange hang out/act like we were together but weren't. In the end I finally got to the point of needing that to be over since I started to notice too much lust and found out I was in love with someone else who is really good for me. In some ways I don't regret it simply because I don't think I would have been able to get away from the curiosity and I enjoyed being around him when I was. Now that is a rare circumstance where I was lucky because I didn't fall in love with him and he didn't end up screwing me over.
Now I am with someone I could see myself marrying and is the best man I have ever been with.

 

[Kicking_Kittens]

-I do not date to marry.
-I date to have a special relationship with another human being.
-I date to have a teammate who will push me to do my best in whatever I do.
-I date to learn to love another human being, to learn how to keep a relationship with another person.
-I do not date to marry because I am not ready to start a family (which is pretty much what marriage is for, to create a family unit)
-I do not date to marry, because I shouldn't be focused on marriage at this point in my life. I need to focus on school, and working toward my future career.
-I do not date to marry, because I believe God will bring me the right person, and i will eventually be married. (I might even have the right person now) However, I like to live my life moment to moment. What will be, will be. And that has worked for me so far.

 

[waxlion10]

For me, dating someone I couldn't see myself marrying would be a huge waste of time. I learned what I did and didn't want in a future husband by having great, close, fun guy friends growing up.

I'm still with my first boyfriend. We'll celebrate our 3 year anniversary tomorrow. I'm also his first girlfriend, and we plan on spending our lives together.

I understand that everyone has different beliefs and priorities, but I have never understood why one would waste one's time dating a person one couldn't ever imagine oneself marrying!