Dates ofPassover & Easter.

[FrauleinElsa]

Wow, that sounds wonderful, Elsa.

Well, if I were pinned down and forced to choose between Wednesday and Thursday, personally I would probably choose Thursday but only because I cannot remember the Hebraic reason it's unlikely that he resurrected on Saturday instead of Friday. All we know for sure that before daybreak on Sunday, he was gone.

Also, the Sabbath and day of preparation that are written in scripture probably refer to the day of preparation for Passover, I believe the first day of which is a Sabbath. So it would be the Feast Sabbath as opposed to the Friday/Saturday Sabbath. Am I just confusing things for you?

Let me look around tomorrow for a website or two which have made the calculations that can help you. It might take some time - but I will try to remember!

Good night!

Hi,

Thank you. I'm very excited about it. Oh that would be great! I would really appreciate it. Yeah, see I know that the day starts at sun the previous day so I was thinking that if it were Wednesday that the Passover began it would have started on Tuesday? Am I right?

Okay this is my thinking:

He would have been arrested on Tuesday night, went through the trial that night. Been scourged the morning of Wednesday, then actually put on the cross by 9(?) am. At 3 pm taken down and put in the tomb. And then from sundown to sundown by the time Sunday arrived that would have been three full days? It sounds like you don't think He came to life (don't know how to word that properly) on Sunday so I'm interested in hearing what you think about that. Don't worry about the time it takes you. I can wait. I just appreicate being able to discuss this. I really do want to be as accurate as I can. My book is set in Biblical times with a Messianic kind of twist. So, I really want it be accurate. Thanks again. I do appreciate it.

Elsa

P.S. You didn't confuse too much, lol. Just the part about Sunday, ha.

 

[reubenabraham]

Fraulein Elsa:

and every one else.

what can we do to include the Passover as part of the Holy Week.

How can we convince churches to start looking at this big aspect hat has been ignored for generation.

So I ask all to pray that we do understand the Passover & how God the Father, the Son & the Holy Spirit have always been present.

 

[Gwenyfur]

Messianics Jews often have the correct Jewish interpretations of feast and holy days but their "eyes" also are still hidden behind the "veil of Moses", as are the Orthodox Jews.

I would really appreciate it if you would stop referring to my brethren and I as "being under the veil of Moshe"

WE are just as redeemed as you are! WE are NOT blind to Y'shua Messiah! We have called on HIS name for HIS gift of Salvation.

It is highly insultive of you to continue to say these things about us as a group. When it's quite obvious you don't have a clue as to what Messianic Jews believe!

 

[CCWoody]

Hmmm, so what is the veil hiding from Messianics' eyes?

When most Protestants refer to the veil it is a reference to 2 Corinthians 3. The problem is that the veil is taken away in Christ so that those Jews that are in Christ no longer have a veil over their hearts when they read the OT, even if many Protestants still think that Messianics are legalistically following the the Law. Unfortunately, this is something of a misapplication of the Scripture. If we are to condemn Messianics for following the Law, then, I believe that the Apostles would be first in line for condemnation. I say that, not to cast aspersions, but to provide information into how many Protestants think.

We all, with unveiled face are beholding the Lord. Seeing Christ saves and sanctifies. Therefore, to assert that a veil still lies on the face of the Messianic true faithful is a misassertion. If that were true, then every believer still has a veil over their eyes because no man is truly faithful in all that he should be faithful and no man has a complete understanding of the Scriptures, even if there are some who have a more mature understanding that others.

Reubenabraham - I happen to agree with you. But remember that the date of Easter was chosen specifically and purposely not to coincide with Passover. Sad, isn't it, that so many blessings are falling to the ground.

Actually, Resurrection Sunday, or Easter as it is called by Catholics, is a celebration of the Resurrection of the Lord from death. Good Friday, is suppose to coincide with the Jewish Passover feast (or be a day after it depending upon your belief) and the first day of the feast of Unleavened Bread. Unfortunately, I don't think that Friday was the day upon which the Lord was sacrificed for us.

It is a matter that I have given a great deal of study to, and there are 2 general schools of Protestant thought. The majority view is that the Lord's supper is the Messiah's Passover celebration with his disciples and that he was crucified the day after the Passover. The minority view is that Christ our Passover was sacrificed for us even as the Passover lambs were being prepared for sacrifice. It is this minority view that has the Lord in a close parallel with the ordinance for the keeping and preparation of the lambs for sacrifice. The Lord entered the holy city and for 4 days was put to intense examination by the Pharisees, Saducees (sp), etc. Then, on the appointed day, he was sacrificed, spent 3 days and nights in the earth, and arose.

Anyway, as, yet another celebration draws new, I look forward to another year of looking at the ordinance and keeping of the Passover. Though my Presbytery does not truly keep a Passover, we celebrate a representational supper and read and recite what is believed to be the traditional hymns. In my annual Bible devotion and studies, I have just finished reading the account in Exodus of the Passover and the establishment of the ordinance. So, while I agree that many or most non-Messianic believers let these blessings fall to the ground, some of us study to know the meaning of the ordinances, faith and glory given to the nation into which we are grafted.

Recognize that all true Christians will be Calvinists in glory....

Your friendly neighborhood Cordial Calvinist
Woody.​

 

[ContentInHim]

Woody - thank you for the wisdom of your post (as always). I am blessed by it!

I agree with your second group - that Yeshua was sacrificed along with the other Passover lambs. He is, after all, the Lamb of God and Passover is God's appointed feast!

And I happen also to agree with your tagline! How else could I in my unregenerate state begin to seek the things of the Lord!

Elsa, here is one website - I've not read it through thoroughly, so read prayerfully. http://www.vorsoft.com/faith/calendar/crucifix.htm

Just to make it clear - this is a very interesting intellectual exercise. Makes my head spin - in a really pleasant way!

But when it becomes a heart exercise, you can see what our Lord meant when he said that he came to fulfill the law - that includes fulfilling the appointed times or feasts of God. Which brings up wonderful anticipation for the fulfillment of the fall feasts! Wow!

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

*I have not read all the posts, and will do so this evening.*

Boy, there is a lot of unpacking to do to explain this subject.

The biggest problems are the change in calendar, and the change in the west to have Easter fall on the same calendar day every year.

On the old calendar and in the East we still "calculate" Pascha (Easter) every year. It ALWAYS comes after the Jewish Passover.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Hi,

I really want to know. Is James Usher right? or was he mistaken? It's real important for me to have an answer to this.

Who? Link please... (one specifically about what he said that you question.)

Forgive me...

 

[FrauleinElsa]

Who? Link please... (one specifically about what he said that you question.)

Forgive me...

Oh, it's all right. Don't feel bad. James Ussher (now I've actually gotten you a link I realized I misspelled his last name) wrote The Annals of the World. James Ussher put the date of the Crucifixion as April 3, (which according to a calender I found was a Friday) A.D. 33. I'm just wondering if his date was accurate. I'm hoping it is because I have his book and I really want it to be right because, I have his book. But here is the link that tells you who he is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Ussher

 

[FrauleinElsa]

Woody - thank you for the wisdom of your post (as always). I am blessed by it!

I agree with your second group - that Yeshua was sacrificed along with the other Passover lambs. He is, after all, the Lamb of God and Passover is God's appointed feast!

And I happen also to agree with your tagline! How else could I in my unregenerate state begin to seek the things of the Lord!

Elsa, here is one website - I've not read it through thoroughly, so read prayerfully. http://www.vorsoft.com/faith/calendar/crucifix.htm

Just to make it clear - this is a very interesting intellectual exercise. Makes my head spin - in a really pleasant way!

But when it becomes a heart exercise, you can see what our Lord meant when he said that he came to fulfill the law - that includes fulfilling the appointed times or feasts of God. Which brings up wonderful anticipation for the fulfillment of the fall feasts! Wow!

Thank you so much. I really appreciate this. I will definitley check this out.

 

[FrauleinElsa]

*I have not read all the posts, and will do so this evening.*

Boy, there is a lot of unpacking to do to explain this subject.

The biggest problems are the change in calendar, and the change in the west to have Easter fall on the same calendar day every year.

On the old calendar and in the East we still "calculate" Pascha (Easter) every year. It ALWAYS comes after the Jewish Passover.

Forgive me...

Please do so. What are your thoughts on this?

 

[FrauleinElsa]

I would really appreciate it if you would stop referring to my brethren and I as "being under the veil of Moshe"

WE are just as redeemed as you are! WE are NOT blind to Y'shua Messiah! We have called on HIS name for HIS gift of Salvation.

It is highly insultive of you to continue to say these things about us as a group. When it's quite obvious you don't have a clue as to what Messianic Jews believe!

Yeah, I have to agree with you on this I attended a Messianic Synagogue for two years and so I know better. They are just as much Christian if you'll excuse the term as any of us. They are Jewish, and follow their traditions but they do believe in Jesus. If they are Jewish and called to follow their traditions who are we to say that shouldn't? It doesn't mean that they are under any kind of veil. I respect their right to do what they do and it's not for any one to say that they shouldn't. Not anymore than I would criticise any other Christian denom for their traditions.

 

[ContentInHim]

Oh, it's all right. Don't feel bad. James Ussher (now I've actually gotten you a link I realized I misspelled his last name) wrote The Annals of the World. James Ussher put the date of the Crucifixion as April 3, (which according to a calender I found was a Friday) A.D. 33. I'm just wondering if his date was accurate. I'm hoping it is because I have his book and I really want it to be right because, I have his book. But here is the link that tells you who he is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Ussher

The book is really old, isn't it? I mean the original publishing, not the re-issue. I believe that credible historians now put the crucifixion at 30 CE since his birth has been moved back to somewhere between 6 and 3 BCE. Not sure on this. Ussher did not have the benefit of knowledge uncovered in the last couple of hundred years.

 

[FrauleinElsa]

The book is really old, isn't it? I mean the original publishing, not the re-issue. I believe that credible historians now put the crucifixion at 30 CE since his birth has been moved back to somewhere between 6 and 3 BCE. Not sure on this. Ussher did not have the benefit of knowledge uncovered in the last couple of hundred years.

Yes, it is really old. It was originally published in 1658. So, it's very old. You bring up a good point too. Something I need to consider. But I do know that his placement of April 3 being a Friday is correct. I have been able to ascertain that much. Now, whether the year is correct, I think is up for debate. Really, His birth could have been anywhere between 3 and 6 BC.

 

[reubenabraham]

CC woody stated
"Actually, Resurrection Sunday, or Easter as it is called by Catholics, is a celebration of the Resurrection of the Lord from death. Good Friday, is suppose to coincide with the Jewish Passover feast (or be a day after it depending upon your belief) and the first day of the feast of Unleavened Bread. Unfortunately, I don't think that Friday was the day upon which the Lord was sacrificed for us.

It is a matter that I have given a great deal of study to, and there are 2 general schools of Protestant thought. The majority view is that the Lord's supper is the Messiah's Passover celebration with his disciples and that he was crucified the day after the Passover."

If this is true then Easter should always follow Passover!!!
And Christians should celebrate Passover as Jesus did.!!! but we dont.

Passover should be Holy Day that reminds us of G-d the Father who saved us and showed Himself to the Israelites and it should remind us that Y'shua was the final sacrifice for all of humanity. Pssover is the Holy Day that proves that G-d is real!!!!

In terms of the Law
http://www.awarenessministry.org/illegal.htm
The scriptures affirm that the Law of God is ETERNAL (Ec 3:14). Although times have changed, circumstances have changed and the manifestations of the law have changed, the Divine Law of God is unchangeable and irrevocable.
--------------
To fulfill the Law and the Prophets (Matt. 5:17)

• "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

 

[Gwenyfur]

Even today during our Passover there's a few moments of silence as death passes by our door...why? Because we are covered by the blood of Messiah, death no longer can take us.
The bitter herbs remind us not only of the bitter bondage of Egypt, but of the bitter bondage of sin...

The salt water reminds us not only of the tears shed under the cruel masters of slavery and sin, but of the tears of joy when Y'shua Messiah answered our call to be forgiven...

The cups, each shows another aspect of how Y'shua Messiah fulfilled and drank each prophetic cup...
(remember His prayer in the garden..."Let this cup pass from Me if it be Thy will..."

the entirety of the seder is nothing without Y'shua Messiah's fulfillment of being the final Passover Lamb...

 

[Gwenyfur]

here's a haggadah that might be helpful with some ideas you might be able to implement at your church

 

[repentant]

Eastern Orthodox Easter or Pascha is always after the Jewish Passover. This is why we have a different Easter date from the rest of the world (except this year, it falls on the same day, happens every four years). Usually Easter in the West (Catholics and Protestants celebrate the same day every year) is before Passover. The EOC is the only Church that always has Easter after Passover, usually within a week or two.

 

[reubenabraham]

Thanks Gwenyfur. Way back when in 1980 while attending Liberty Baptist in San Jose we had a speaker for Jews for Jesus.

Currently I am 1st baptist Rockville MD. since I have been there we have had one Seder & last year Jews for Jesus returned and did an historical presentation of the Seder.

for anyone interested here is the site for Jews for Jesus & an invitation
to a Passover banquet.

http://www.jewsforjesus.org/programs/passoverbanquets

to repentant; thanks for the clarification does the orthodox church celebrate the Passover. I believe many denomination celebrate a Communion however we should celebrate a Most High Communion on Passover and as Gwenyfur said
" the entirety of the seder is nothing without Y'shua Messiah's fulfillment of being the final Passover Lamb..."

and we must also preserve the tradition of the Witnesses who saw how Yaweh saved them and now Y'shua saves us we must forever connect the two

 

[Gwenyfur]

You're most welcome...

This year we are having Passover Feast at our home...a few of our close friends...

My poor baptist husband started studying last month so he'd be properly prepared.....

I do have to chuckle now and again when I hear him mutter "Why did I marry a Jew?"

But, that's why I love him....he tries really hard