Dates ofPassover & Easter.

[reubenabraham]

I posted in the Catholic & Anglican sites searching for answers. It was suggested that this forum could be a better forum, I have received numerous insights on the the topic.

1-Historically I know why Easter & Passover fall on the a separate date.

2-My question and concern is that they should fall on the same time frame. All the Gospels list Jesus's triumphant entry ( Palm Sunday)

3-They all list the Passover as an event prior to his arrest & crucifixtion, and resurection.

4-So it would seem like that Passion Week should coincide with The Passover celebration and the added significance of the Resurection.

5-I believe Jesus had a final lesson for us by celebrating the Passover. It was during Passion week that many of the parables and teaching took place. What was the final lesson and why don't
we do as Jesus did and clebrate the Passover.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The Passover, Crucifixion, Resurrection, Ascension and Petecost are all Jewish events and the fulfillement of the OT Prophecies concerning Jesus.
Who better to ask than the Jews themselves.

(Young) Acts 13:29 and when they did complete all the things written about Him, having taken [him] down from the tree, they laid Him in a tomb;

LUKE 24:1 And on the one hand, they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment; but on the other hand, on the First of the Sabbaths, at deep dawn, they came to the tomb, bearing the spices which they prepared, and certain others with them, (literal translation)​

The contrast Luke wanted to point out to his readers with the use of the

pairing is between the Passover Sabbath (on which the women rested according to the commandment recorded in Lev. 23:7) and the "First of the Sabbaths" (on which they came to the tomb before sunrise to anoint Yeshua's body with spices). Understood properly, Luke 24:1 tells us that there were two Sabbaths that week: the Passover Sabbath and the "First of the Sabbaths." The phrase "First of the Sabbaths" is most frequently translated "first day of the week," an alleged reference to Sunday. But is that what Luke truly meant by the Greek phrase

(literally "first of the sabbaths")? The Greek word

is considered to be plural. Grammatically, it doesn't make much sense to translate it as the singular "week." However, most English translators translate the plural "sabbaths" as the singular "week" and insert the word "day" into the phrase in order to try and make it fit the traditionally accepted scenario.

 

[reubenabraham]

In replying to LittlelambofJesus who said
"The Passover, Crucifixion, Resurrection, Ascension and Petecost are all Jewish events and the fulfillement of the OT Prophecies concerning Jesus.
Who better to ask than the Jews themselves"

I believe the Messianic Jews have seen the conection they have an excellent book
Christ in the Passover.

I believe many Christians have not seen the connection. I believe we would have a deeper understanding of the Trinity with Pasison week & Passover being celebrated together as the early Christians did.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

In replying to LittlelambofJesus who said
"The Passover, Crucifixion, Resurrection, Ascension and Petecost are all Jewish events and the fulfillement of the OT Prophecies concerning Jesus.
Who better to ask than the Jews themselves"

I believe the Messianic Jews have seen the conection they have an excellent book
Christ in the Passover.

I believe many Christians have not seen the connection. I believe we would have a deeper understanding of the Trinity with Pasison week & Passover being celebrated together as the early Christians did.

Messianics Jews often have the correct Jewish interpretations of feast and holy days but their "eyes" also are still hidden behind the "veil of Moses", as are the Orthodox Jews. The Cross finished it for me.

Exodus 12:3 And Moses said to the people, "Remember this Day, on which you went free from Egypt, the house of bondage, how the Lord freed you from it with a mighty hand: no leavened bread shall be eaten. 4 You go free on this day, in the month of Abib.

http://www.christianforums.com/t4559751-revelation-a-jewish-polemic-book.html
-revelation-a-jewish-polemic-book

(Young) Revelation 5:9 and they sing a new song, saying, `Worthy art thou to take the scroll, and to open the seals of it, because Thou wast slaughtered, and didst redeem Us to God in Thy blood, out of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation,

 

[ContentInHim]

Messianics Jews often have the correct Jewish interpretations of feast and holy days but their "eyes" also are still hidden behind the "veil of Moses", as are the Orthodox Jews. The Cross finished it for me. ,

Hmmm, so what is the veil hiding from Messianics' eyes?

Reubenabraham - I happen to agree with you. But remember that the date of Easter was chosen specifically and purposely not to coincide with Passover. Sad, isn't it, that so many blessings are falling to the ground.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hmmm, so what is the veil hiding from Messianics' eyes?

Reubenabraham - I happen to agree with you. But remember that the date of Easter was chosen specifically and purposely not to coincide with Passover. Sad, isn't it, that so many blessings are falling to the ground.

You mean this one?

2 corin 3:14 But their minds were dull. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the [veil] is taken away in Christ. 15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. [kalumma <2571>]

http://www.christianforums.com/t4559...emic-book.html
-revelation-a-jewish-polemic-book

Revelation 1:1 [a/an] From/Un-Covering/Veiling[ apo-kaluyiV] ihsou/Yeshuwa` cristou/Mashiyach, which gives to Him, the God/'elohiym, to show to the bond-servants of Him, which is behooving to be becoming in swiftness. And He signifies sending out* thru/by the messenger of Him, to the Bondservants of Him, iwannh/Y@howchanan.

 

[ContentInHim]

Huh?

I have no idea what you are talking about, Lamb. To me, the OC SCREAMS of Yeshua, Messiah, Adoni and Elohim. But you apparently have no understanding of what Messianics believe. You are free to ask questions and read the FAQ in the MJ forum since you are so confused.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Huh?

I have no idea what you are talking about, Lamb. To me, the OC SCREAMS of Yeshua, Messiah, Adoni and Elohim. But you apparently have no understanding of what Messianics believe. You are free to ask questions and read the FAQ in the MJ forum since you are so confused.

Don't they still observe much of the Law of Moses given to the Hebrews at Mt Sinai?

(NKJV) Deuteronomy 4:11 "Then you came near and stood at the foot of the mountain, and the Mountain burned with fire to the midst of heaven, with darkness, cloud, and thick darkness.

Out with the Old:

(NKJV) Revelation 8:8 Then the second angel sounded: And [something] like a great Mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood.

Hebrew 12:21 and, (so terrible was the sight,) Moses said, `I am fearful exceedingly, and trembling.' 22 But, ye came to Mount Zion, and to a city of the living God, to the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of messengers, 23 to the company and assembly of the first-born in heaven enrolled, and to God the judge of all, and to spirits of righteous men made perfect, 24 and to a mediator of a new covenant--Jesus, and to blood of sprinkling, speaking better things than that of Abel!

 

[reubenabraham]

In reply to littlelambofjesus.

The Messianics Jews are not hiding behind anything. They fully believe that Jesus was the Messiah.My thesis and premise is that the moving of the Resurection celebration away from Passover was wrong and church history states it was done so there could be a distinction between the two as Contentinhim clearly stated.

This is the prayer Jesus said before he was arrested, and most likely at the last supper

20"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one:

So Palm Sunday should be the Sunday before Passover. Christians should celebrate and read the scriptures that pertain to the last week of Jesus life. They should understand that the God of the Old Testament The father & Jesus are on & the same and that it was Jesus that saved the Isralites. But also now as Jesus prayed "for those who will believe!!!

So again the question I put out based on scripture is why did Jesus put an emphasis on the Passover? Why do we as Christians do not want to celebrate a feast that Jesus clearly wanted associated with his Resurection.

 

[FrauleinElsa]

James Usher in The Annals of the World asserts that the date for the crucifixion was April 3, A.D. 33. I have found a calender for that year and determined that the 3rd was a Friday. So, the question becomes was Jesus crucified by the Jewish week/calender or by the Romans since it was a Roman execution. The Romans would not have followed the Jewish week such as what was posted earlier where the day begins at sun down the previous night. So, who's calender would have been followed? Roman or Jewish?

 

[reubenabraham]

In reply to littlelamb of jesus who stated
"Don't they still observe much of the Law of Moses given to the Hebrews at Mt Sinai?


Matthew 5:17-18 (New Living Translation)
7 &#8220;Don&#8217;t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God&#8217;s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved.


The bottom line of any congregation or church is that they believe

that Jesus died for our sins on the cross He was buried and was raised again on the third day.. ( paraphrase 1 corinthians 15;3-4)

If the Messianic Jews still follow their old traditions ( more cultural than religious)but celebrate the Messiah as the only way to Heaven there is really nothing wrong. Jesus did not abolish the laws!

There are some Christian demominations that believe that good works is the way to heaven & salvation they would be the one behind a vail.

There are some Christians that believe Baptism saves. They are behind the vail.

The thesis I was presenting was based on the premise that we all believe in the Risen Savior.

One way to better honor the savior and see how He has always been present is to celebrate a Holy Day he celebrated. Jesus did not celebrate Easter. It would almost seem like the Easter bunny is more of a vail to many Christians?

 

[FrauleinElsa]

Hi,

I really want to know. Is James Usher right? or was he mistaken? It's real important for me to have an answer to this.

 

[ContentInHim]

The days for the entry of Jesus into Jerusalem and his trial(s) and crucifixion and resurrection are in relation to the Jewish Passover, not Palm Sunday. Check out Little Lamb's chart again - it looks correct to me. Remember that the Jewish Sabbath begins just before sunset on Friday and ends just after sunset on Saturday. Therefore the first day of the week begins just after sunset on Saturday! It makes a world of difference in interpreting the days of his crucifixion and resurrection.

This is both an intellectual exercise and a heart one. Pray for discernment from the Holy Spirit and go for it.

 

[FrauleinElsa]

Okay, but I'm still confused. The Romans carried out the execution so would they have used their calender or the Jewish calender? If they were to use the Jewish calendeer then Passover would have had to have been on Tuesday night I think. But if it was the Roman calender then it would have been Thursday night. I'm writing a book, so getting these details are really important. Where do you stand on this? Which calender would have been used?

Thanks,
Elsa

 

[ContentInHim]

Okay, but I'm still confused. The Romans carried out the execution so would they have used their calender or the Jewish calender? If they were to use the Jewish calendeer then Passover would have had to have been on Tuesday night I think. But if it was the Roman calender then it would have been Thursday night. I'm writing a book, so getting these details are really important. Where do you stand on this? Which calender would have been used?

Thanks,
Elsa

Elsa, the calendars have changed so over the years that no one knows the exact date in terms of our calendar. The "world" has gone from the Julian to the something to the Gregorian to whatever we use today and with each change, the days/dates have gotten messed up.

It might be easier to use the Jewish calendar as Passover was on 1 Nisan (God began his calendar's first month, first day on the evening the angel of death passed throughout Egypt), but I wouldn't even trust that one which has changed due to the Israelites various captivities and returns. It's a complicated but extremely interesting problem.

What is your book about? Is it a personal study or something to be published?

 

[ContentInHim]

Oh, and the Romans didn't have much to say about when the execution occurred - for that they were at the mercy of the corrupt non-levitical priesthood which pushed for a quick execution before the celebration of Passover - the Romans were afraid of a Jewish riot! There was no time for a riot before the Passover Sabbath.

 

[FrauleinElsa]

Elsa, the calendars have changed so over the years that no one knows the exact date in terms of our calendar. The "world" has gone from the Julian to the something to the Gregorian to whatever we use today and with each change, the days/dates have gotten messed up.

It might be easier to use the Jewish calendar as Passover was on 1 Nisan (God began his calendar's first month, first day on the evening the angel of death passed throughout Egypt), but I wouldn't even trust that one which has changed due to the Israelites various captivities and returns. It's a complicated but extremely interesting problem.

What is your book about? Is it a personal study or something to be published?

Oh, and the Romans didn't have much to say about when the execution occurred - for that they were at the mercy of the corrupt non-levitical priesthood which pushed for a quick execution before the celebration of Passover - the Romans were afraid of a Jewish riot! There was no time for a riot before the Passover Sabbath.

Hi and thanks so much. Hmmm...it does sound rather difficult to pin down. So, would you be more to believe the Jewish calender? In that the Passover was probably earlier in the week? I hope I'm not being redundant. I just need to know which date I could use and feel pretty good about, lol. I guess I can't hope for anything more than that. My book is fiction and is partially set during those times. I will be writing about the crucifixion which is why I'm trying to be as accurate as possible. Thanks again, so much for your reply. I do appreciate it.

Blessings to you,
Elsa

 

[reubenabraham]

To Fraulein Elsa & Content in Him.

I think we are in theory agreeing. The Jesus was crucified during the Passover time.

In reading the Gospels Jesus' triumphant entry & what is now Palm Sunday occurred before the Passover celebration.

My premise & goal is that The Passover should be an integral part of Holy Week. I believe this year & last they were actually close together, however some years they could be weeks apart.

I'm not searching for an exact date. I am looking for Christians to understand the connection between The Father and the Son. I think
by celebrating the Passover we can get a deeper understanding of
the Trinity and how Christianity is not a separate religion from Judaism but a religion that worships the Same God of the Hebrew scriptures. If the Father did not save the Israelites, we would not have a Saviour.

 

[FrauleinElsa]

To Fraulein Elsa & Content in Him.

I think we are in theory agreeing. The Jesus was crucified during the Passover time.

In reading the Gospels Jesus' triumphant entry & what is now Palm Sunday occurred before the Passover celebration.

My premise & goal is that The Passover should be an integral part of Holy Week. I believe this year & last they were actually close together, however some years they could be weeks apart.

I'm not searching for an exact date. I am looking for Christians to understand the connection between The Father and the Son. I think
by celebrating the Passover we can get a deeper understanding of
the Trinity and how Christianity is not a separate religion from Judaism but a religion that worships the Same God of the Hebrew scriptures. If the Father did not save the Israelites, we would not have a Saviour.

I'd agree with that. I do need a date, or as close as I can get to it. Though, I may just have to live without it. I actually attended a Messianic Synagogue for two years and learned a lot. I attended the Passover and a lot can be learned from it.

 

[ContentInHim]

Hi and thanks so much. Hmmm...it does sound rather difficult to pin down. So, would you be more to believe the Jewish calender? In that the Passover was probably earlier in the week? I hope I'm not being redundant. I just need to know which date I could use and feel pretty good about, lol. I guess I can't hope for anything more than that. My book is fiction and is partially set during those times. I will be writing about the crucifixion which is why I'm trying to be as accurate as possible. Thanks again, so much for your reply. I do appreciate it.

Blessings to you,
Elsa

Wow, that sounds wonderful, Elsa.

Well, if I were pinned down and forced to choose between Wednesday and Thursday, personally I would probably choose Thursday but only because I cannot remember the Hebraic reason it's unlikely that he resurrected on Saturday instead of Friday. All we know for sure that before daybreak on Sunday, he was gone.

Also, the Sabbath and day of preparation that are written in scripture probably refer to the day of preparation for Passover, I believe the first day of which is a Sabbath. So it would be the Feast Sabbath as opposed to the Friday/Saturday Sabbath. Am I just confusing things for you?

Let me look around tomorrow for a website or two which have made the calculations that can help you. It might take some time - but I will try to remember!

Good night!