Dates and Paying

Inkachu · Feb 21, 2009

Thanks, GNJ. I wouldn't care if a man took me to McD's if that's all he could afford.

Bitnd12 · Feb 21, 2009

Well, I guess I'll chime in.

If a guy asked me out for the first time, I'd probably be more comfortable paying for myself simply because we're just getting to know each other and I would (sort of) feel like a level of commitment was implied if he paid for everything right off the bat. That is, we're not in a committed relationship after half a date, so why should he pick up the whole tab? I don't see that as fair -I agreed to go out with him, after all - and I would feel bad if I didn't enjoy myself enough to want to go out again after he did that... Because he put more into the date than I did.

And again, I DID agree to go out with him. Obviously, then, I see a potential relationship there. And a marriage is a team, not a lopsided bank account or work load. I guess its better to get in the habit of contributing to the couple, not expecting one to have money for the other. I'm a big girl, I make my own money. For the first few dates, I'd like to just enjoy getting to know the guy with the knowledge that if it doesn't work out, neither one of us walks away with too light a wallet. To me, that's fair and considerate.

But if we were dating for a while and he wanted to take me out and pay, that's different. It shows me that he's not just paying because its "right" or "proper," but because he'd genuinely like to. And I'm not saying that a guy who pays for a whole dinner (or whatever) on a first date is not genuine, I know that some guys who feel that way are gentlemen with great intentions.

But again, to me, it's about fairness and both people being willing to contribute. If a guy wanted to pay for dinner, for example, I'd offer to reciprocate by leaving the tip and buying dessert somewhere else. Not quite as evenly split, but the thought of contributing is still there.

I understand the notion of chivalry and I think it's really sweet to want to treat a lady with respect. But personally, a guy would win me over by holding a door for me or complimenting my attire before he would by giving me a free meal. I'd even go so far as to say that it is a turnoff when a guy insists on paying for everything early on. He's not being a "protector" or "Godly" by dropping an extra 20 bucks on the table. I think there are better ways for men to show that they care than by paying for everything all the time.

Just my two cents.

20MoreMiles · Feb 21, 2009

WileyCoyote said:
Well, I don't appreciate being told that I believe I have to buy my lady's approval just because I believe the man should pay. Who are YOU to tell me what I believe?

Sorry if i made the wrong impression. I'm merely stating my opinion. However, action speak louder than words. You call it being a gentleman, fine. I don't want to buy her love however. I'd rather be a gentleman by doing genuine and thoughtful things for her, instead of laying down money.

WileyCoyote said:
And furthermore, suggesting that men pay because "women have boobs" is extremely juvenile. Maybe some men pay because they want to be a gentleman.

Really? Then how many girls tried to be ladies and buy men a date? No woman does. Not because they're not nice or whatever, but because that's how nature works. Guys hit on girls and have to have their approval, not the other way around - that is secundairy.

godsbassist said:
With regards to 20moremiles' comments... comparing women who expect to be treated special and taken care of to prostitutes is indicative of the same lack of chivalry. Even the most successful and wealthy women in the world 90% of the time still like be treated as if they're unique and cared for. Paying for dinner is an opportunity to make that gesture, not treat her like a 'working woman.'

Chivalry is doing something deep, something MEANINGFUL and thoughtful for a woman.

If you think chivalry consists of throwing money at her, and many here seem to believe so, then our views of what love is are very different.

20MoreMiles · Feb 21, 2009

Bitnd12 said:
Well, I guess I'll chime in.

If a guy asked me out for the first time, I'd probably be more comfortable paying for myself simply because we're just getting to know each other and I would (sort of) feel like a level of commitment was implied if he paid for everything right off the bat. That is, we're not in a committed relationship after half a date, so why should he pick up the whole tab? I don't see that as fair -I agreed to go out with him, after all - and I would feel bad if I didn't enjoy myself enough to want to go out again after he did that... Because he put more into the date than I did.

And again, I DID agree to go out with him. Obviously, then, I see a potential relationship there. And a marriage is a team, not a lopsided bank account or work load. I guess its better to get in the habit of contributing to the couple, not expecting one to have money for the other. I'm a big girl, I make my own money. For the first few dates, I'd like to just enjoy getting to know the guy with the knowledge that if it doesn't work out, neither one of us walks away with too light a wallet. To me, that's fair and considerate.

But if we were dating for a while and he wanted to take me out and pay, that's different. It shows me that he's not just paying because its "right" or "proper," but because he'd genuinely like to. And I'm not saying that a guy who pays for a whole dinner (or whatever) on a first date is not genuine, I know that some guys who feel that way are gentlemen with great intentions.

But again, to me, it's about fairness and both people being willing to contribute. If a guy wanted to pay for dinner, for example, I'd offer to reciprocate by leaving the tip and buying dessert somewhere else. Not quite as evenly split, but the thought of contributing is still there.

I understand the notion of chivalry and I think it's really sweet to want to treat a lady with respect. But personally, a guy would win me over by holding a door for me or complimenting my attire before he would by giving me a free meal. I'd even go so far as to say that it is a turnoff when a guy insists on paying for everything early on. He's not being a "protector" or "Godly" by dropping an extra 20 bucks on the table. I think there are better ways for men to show that they care than by paying for everything all the time.

Just my two cents.

I recognize wisdom when i see it and this post is full of it.

It also touches on something else which i have no experience from, but when someone that i barely know buys me dinner, i feel like i owe him/her something, leading to a somewhat uncomfortable situation.

Gwendolyn · Feb 21, 2009

Well, I do enjoy it when the guy picks me up, pays, etc.... NOT because he thinks I am weak or something, but because he respects me and wants to treat me well.

Then again, I don't go on "dates", lol. My former bf and I went out to do things, but didn't call them "dates", really.

sweetlambofgod · Feb 21, 2009

I believe the guy should pay for the first few and then if it turns into a relationship then you can take turns or work it out with the other person. If one is in school fulltime and one is working fulltime it makes sense the working one will pay most of the time, depends on the couple and their situation.

JennyKatz · Feb 21, 2009

20MoreMiles said:
Guys hit on girls and have to have their approval, not the other way around - that is secundairy.

Actually, in your way of doing things, the man approving of the woman comes first. A man isn't going to pursue a woman who hasn't earned his initial approval of being a worthwhile investment of time. Or if he is, that implies he's merely pursuing women for the sake of it, and not because he actually wants to pursue her. I certainly hope that the men who are asking me for my time actually want to spend time with me personally, not just with any old woman. Besides, in what world is a relationship going to work where one partner approves of the other, but the other partner is indifferent?

Disclaimer: I'm responding to what I think you're saying here. If I've misunderstood your meaning, just ignore this post.

GoodNewsJournalist · Feb 21, 2009

Inkabink said:
Thanks, GNJ. I wouldn't care if a man took me to McD's if that's all he could afford.

Wow, that's where most of my dates are. $30 dollar dates to McMason's and a movie.

Gwendolyn · Feb 21, 2009

Inkabink said:
Thanks, GNJ. I wouldn't care if a man took me to McD's if that's all he could afford.

Yeah, I'm with Ink on this one. Besides, I don't like being out in public, and going to flashy places isn't my thing. McD's would be just fine, if I was in the mood

20MoreMiles · Feb 21, 2009

JennyKatz said:
Actually, in your way of doing things, the man approving of the woman comes first. A man isn't going to pursue a woman who hasn't earned his initial approval of being a worthwhile investment of time. Or if he is, that implies he's merely pursuing women for the sake of it, and not because he actually wants to pursue her. I certainly hope that the men who are asking me for my time actually want to spend time with me personally, not just with any old woman.

Well, us men decide within a few seconds whether we want to pursue you, given the opportunity (i will touch back on this later), or not, based on looks. This is not something we choose to do, it's just the way our brains are wired. So, take my word for it that when a guy asks you out, he genuinely likes you; up to that point, anyway. Of course, there's more than looks, and that's why we ask you out: to see if you have a nice character to go with it. That's the approval part on my side.

So, in that sense you are right, that the girl must have his approval first.

However, notice that i put "given the opportunity" in that sentence a few lines above. If i really like a girl, but it's clear that we have no connection, she gives no inviting signs of body language, etc, then i won't bother to ask her out because it'd going nowhere. So, this is where the girl's approval comes in. Again, these body language signs of "approach me" are basic, not things you learn, but things that we are biologically programmed to do. You don't think, you just know and it just happens.

However, in general, women need more time to decide whether or not they really like a guy and accept them in an intimate setting. Men, again, in general, are more desperate, which is clearly shown by the fact that many go as far as paying for their food and whatnot in hope to get approval.

JennyKatz said:
Besides, in what world is a relationship going to work where one partner approves of the other, but the other partner is indifferent?

I don't really understand what you're saying here. If either the man or woman doesn't approve the other, there is no relationship to begin with.

Llauralin · Feb 21, 2009

I don't believe that there's One Right Way to do things, and would be open to either way. That being said, I tend to assume more interest from a guy who buys me something than from one who doesn't. There are so few relatively subtle ways to differentiate a friendly lunch together from a "date," and, if I know the guy my default assumption is "friends." So if we go out somewhere and I pay for myself, it's not going to change that assumption. Buying me dinner might. So, I guess I'm saying, the guy paying is kind and gentlemanly, and also helps some of the more dense among us figure your intentions out.

CrusaderKing · Feb 21, 2009

Men should pay for the first date unless she insists on helping with the bill. Splitting comes later down the road if a relationship starts.

GlennK · Feb 21, 2009

ha i don't pay for women. it bad to pay for women these days. i normally don't pay for them until i get a commitment.. that is if i want one.

ha. straight up.

Llauralin · Feb 21, 2009

GlennK said:
ha i don't pay for women. it bad to pay for women these days. i normally don't pay for them until i get a commitment.. that is if i want one.

ha. straight up.

Interesting. Do you tell them this in advance? And "it bad?" Could you elaborate?

Wren · Feb 21, 2009

Gwendolyn said:
Yeah, I'm with Ink on this one. Besides, I don't like being out in public, and going to flashy places isn't my thing. McD's would be just fine, if I was in the mood

Noooooooo, not McD's! A date should not include a dollar menu.

I do agree that thrifty dates are not a bad thing. A walk through the local (and free) wildlife sanctuary would be uber-romantic, although not in our current snowstorm.

I'm not sure how I feel about paying. My instinct is to say that men should pay because I grew up in (and still live in) an area where that is the norm. Honestly, I'm not sure I really care if he wants me to pay for part of the date (he pays for dinner--I pay for the movie, for example) as long as he's not so anal as to get out a calculator so that I don't rip him off and make him pay more than half. Although, I think that I would think more highly of a guy who does want to pay. It shows that he thinks I'm a lady who deserves to be taken care of and I've been very independant for so long that I think that would be nice.

mina · Feb 21, 2009

Whoever asked should pay. With my ex- i did not initially ask him out- he did the asking in the begining dates and he paid. But eventually i asked him to some things and i paid and had no problem doing so

Trashionista · Feb 21, 2009

I think the first couple of dates, unless the girl has thrown herself at the guy, the guy should probably pay.

After that, I think going dutch, taking turns, etc. is preferable.

JennyKatz · Feb 21, 2009

20MoreMiles said:
Well, us men decide within a few seconds whether we want to pursue you, given the opportunity (i will touch back on this later), or not, based on looks. This is not something we choose to do, it's just the way our brains are wired. So, take my word for it that when a guy asks you out, he genuinely likes you; up to that point, anyway. Of course, there's more than looks, and that's why we ask you out: to see if you have a nice character to go with it. That's the approval part on my side.

So, in that sense you are right, that the girl must have his approval first.

However, notice that i put "given the opportunity" in that sentence a few lines above. If i really like a girl, but it's clear that we have no connection, she gives no inviting signs of body language, etc, then i won't bother to ask her out because it'd going nowhere. So, this is where the girl's approval comes in. Again, these body language signs of "approach me" are basic, not things you learn, but things that we are biologically programmed to do. You don't think, you just know and it just happens.

However, in general, women need more time to decide whether or not they really like a guy and accept them in an intimate setting. Men, again, in general, are more desperate, which is clearly shown by the fact that many go as far as paying for their food and whatnot in hope to get approval.

I don't really understand what you're saying here. If either the man or woman doesn't approve the other, there is no relationship to begin with.

OK. I thought you meant that the girl's approval was the only thing that mattered on the date, not in pursuing the girl in order to the get the date. Although, I do know guys that have attempted to pursue a girl when she is very clearly uninterested.
Although I disagree that men paying for a date is a desperate ploy for the woman's affections (although there are some that pay in order to the play the 'I paid, so now you owe me something" card). Many of my male friends were simply raised on the idea that the men pay for the date, regardless. It's considered polite behavior. Now it's ingrained. They feel like they're being rude if they ask a girl to pay. It's an act of social respect in their minds, the same way these same men will always open a door for a lady or pull out her chair.

ido · Feb 21, 2009

20MoreMiles said:
I recognize wisdom when i see it and this post is full of it.

I'm not discrediting the post you quoted - b/c her thoughts are her own and are to be respected. But, I find it pretty disrespectful that you quote her and say she's wise just b/c she agrees with the way you think. There isn't a right and wrong answer to the issue of paying for a date - and implying so is judgemental, at best.

Gwendolyn · Feb 21, 2009

I wouldn't go out with a man who thought he could buy my affections. I also wouldn't go out with a man who thought I was inferior, weak, fragile, etc. and he had to treat me accordingly.

I like it when a man pays, picks me up, opens doors for me, etc., because it shows courtesy to me. If I discern that he is not being courteous, but is instead motivated by something else, then things would fizzle out very quickly.

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