Date of the Resurrection

gratefulgrace · Apr 30, 2011

I challenge you to ask people why we celebrate Easter or the origins of Easter and whether or not they agree with it spiritually I would venture a guess that most would say it is a Christian holiday commemorating the death the Jesus. (they may Or may not include the resurrection). Doubt if many would say it is the worship of the Goddess Ischtar. Maybe by making such a big deal about this Christians are bringing forward and actually promoting something that is false without meaning to. I prefer to celebrate Easter with a mixed group but to let them know exactly why I AM celebrating and that it is not about bunnies. Just a thought. gg

probinson · Apr 30, 2011

gratefulgrace said:
I would venture a guess that most would say it is a Christian holiday commemorating the death the Jesus. (they may Or may not include the resurrection).

This is a much greater issue than the date we celebrate...

People need to know that JESUS IS ALIVE!

gratefulgrace · Apr 30, 2011

Yes I agree but this is a time of year when this idea is more widely circulated don't you think?

Svt4Him · Apr 30, 2011

My friend didn't have a birth certificate (no, he's not the president now, he has one) when he was brought over to Canada. Therefore he made his birthday up. Apparently it's also the day of a pagan holiday, so when we sang happy birthday to him, we were worshipping the devil.

Yup, makes sense to me. Seems people are so comfortable in their foxhole that they start attacking one another instead of finishing the mission Jesus assigned us to. That to me is a bigger issue than my friends birthday.

Yitzchak · Apr 30, 2011

Svt4Him said:
My friend didn't have a birth certificate (no, he's not the president now, he has one) when he was brought over to Canada. Therefore he made his birthday up. Apparently it's also the day of a pagan holiday, so when we sang happy birthday to him, we were worshipping the devil.

Yup, makes sense to me. Seems people are so comfortable in their foxhole that they start attacking one another instead of finishing the mission Jesus assigned us to. That to me is a bigger issue than my friends birthday.

Actually birthdays are of pagan origin also. Many in the early church refused to celebrate birthdays out of Christian conviction . It's public knowledge. Look it up.

All of the symbols like birthday candles are symbolizing occult and false worship of other gods.

The thing that amazes me, as the opening poster already mentioned is that people after they find out these facts are stubborn as a mule in the face of it.

I think the real sin goes deeper than just picking up the heathen customs of the nations around them. Something which the scripture warns against. it speaks to the root of the doctrine of holiness.

My self , I am glad that God is not 99.9999% love , goodness and holiness. I am glad that he is 100% pure. The scripture tells me to keep myself pure and unspotted form the world. To be Holy as he is holy.

So I don't really understand this cavalier attitude that is taken with regards to holiness.

This side issue , as you call it. Takes up many many chapters of the eternal word of God. it seems to me that it takes away from the message when those who profess to follow Christi do not follow his word but brush it aside as a side issue. The issue I am refering to is holiness and being unspoted from the world. The scripture goes as far as to say , friendship with the world is enmity with God.

Holiness is a part of the message. Christians by partaking of the world's sins have lost their opening to be a witness by standing for holiness. the funny thing is that I have traveled quite a bit and every place I have gone it seems like very close to 100% of the unsaved have heard the message of Seventh day Adventists and Jehovah's witnesses. Because down to the last one of them , they will say they are the group that doesn't celebrate birthdays and Christmas and stuff.

This technique of witnessing by our actions was also used in past generations by the church. People refused to go to movies or work on Sunday , kiss on a date. Things like that.

Consider the witness that the world talks about now. Christians are hypocrites who are just as bad as us and yet they tell us we are sinners.

The point ,a s I said it much deeper than having a conviction about one particular issue or not. It is the fact that there are no convictions about any issue. I would like to know , how and when the message of not loving the world and being a seperate people is lived out ?? it seems like the teaching is do whatever you want and just put God's name to it. To my thinking that violates one of the The ten Commandments which says not to carry his name in vain. and not to make images of other gods that we put in front of His face.

This professed lack of sincerity in the worship of these images that God commanded against really rings hollow when those confronted about such things have a mocking tone to their response.

These are deadly serious issues. If you really think that Romans 14 applies . It seems to be the favorite passage of those who engage in pagan holidays, then you would follow that scripture and not rub it in the nose of those who have convictions against it. Can't have it both ways.

I think it exceeds the bound of Christian freedom to have a cavalier attitude about worldly and pagan celebrations. Things have gone far past the question of whether you can buy the Easter candy on sale the week after the holiday.

But for the sake of argument, let's say you do have that much freedom in Christ . the what of the passages which instruct against a careless and inconsiderate use of that freedom.

You are posting in a thread posted by a Christian who is very sincerely trying to live holy. Your post seems more concerned with winning an argument than it is with respecting this sister's convictions.

I doubt that was your intention. But take a step back and think about it. Wouldn't it be a better response to agree with the basic idea of holiness and simply state that you work out your holiness in a different way than them rather than putting down their attempts to live wholeheartedly for God.

Parading your participation in pagan rituals is not a virtue. If you want to speak about your freedom in Christ , then that can be done without putting down someone's convictions.

Yitzchak · Apr 30, 2011

probinson said:
This is a much greater issue than the date we celebrate...

People need to know that JESUS IS ALIVE!

That is true. But the issue of holiness and a person's convictions is not a side issue.

It is a good message to preach that Jesus is alive though.

SpiritPsalmist · Apr 30, 2011

probinson said:
Then what's the problem, and why the whole analogy about receiving a gift that you didn't want?

It was not just a gift that I did not want....I had specifically written "no candy", and the person chose to ignore that request and gave it to me anyways 'cause it's what she enjoyed and wanted to do.

Do you deny that there are things God has told us specifically that He does not want? Do you think it's ok for us to do it anyway 'cause it makes us feel good?

I'm no one's judge, I'm just pointing out some possibilities of where we may be infracting without meaning to. Is it too much to search the scripture and ask God if we are? Then listening to Him and act upon whatever HE tells us?

probinson said:
I'm not mixing the worship of pagans with the worship of God. I'm not celebrating God and pagans. I'm celebrating everything my Savior alone has done for me. Period.

I never said you were. I simply asked why we celebrate on a day that it did not happen when we do have a specific date that it did happen? I pointed out that "The date many churches celebrate on actually coincides with a pagan celebration of which many even use the same pagan name (Easter) and use bunny's, chicks, and eggs as part of their celebration to apply to the resurrection when the two have absolutely nothing to do with each other".

I personally think we are to celebrate every day what He's done for us. However, I still don't understand why we would continue to go with the worlds set aside date, calling it by the same name as their celebration and not give HIM HIS own special set aside date (of which we do have knowledge of), apart from all the rest of the worlds attentions of bunny's, chicks, eggs, candy, etc..

Yitzchak · Apr 30, 2011

This reminds me of the Mennonite woman who got baptized in The Holy Spirit in the cow meadow on the farm where she lived after reading the scriptures. She was excommunicated from her church and started attending the Local Assembly of God church. I think it must have been at least several months , maybe even a bit longer that that that she continued to wear her traditional head covering 24/7.

The Mennonites have that tradition. They take it from 1 Corinthians 11.
It was a symbol of her submission as a woman. A symbol of her obedience to God's word that she does not just do her own thing but is under authority.

1Co 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
1Co 11:2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.
1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1Co 11:4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
1Co 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

The amazing thing to me is that in all those months , in a church did not share that tradition , not a single person ever brought it up or made fun of her for it.

Eventually she took it off because she felt that it was o.k. to do so.

Someone posted , if you don't like the way Easter is celebrated then just do your own thing. But that is not really an honest answer since America and most of the churches make it a big deal for a couple weeks every year. It is not a neutral starting point where people just follow their own convictions. The church has taken a strong stance on the issue to agree with the world's celebration of this holiday.

With birthdays or some smaller holidays , this option of doing your own thing about it is realistic. With Easter and Christmas , it requires more of a hard stance to stand against it.

There are some side issues , as well. Most churches spend money from the offering money that was given to God for these celebrations. Those who have convictions against these holidays don't feel good that the money they gave for the ministry is going towards pagan decorations.

The traditions of men have won out for the most part in the church in these issues. The church hardly takes a neutral stance , leaving it up to the individual's convictions. Taking the pooled resources of the Christian community to support these celebrations is not a neutral stance.

Markus6 · Apr 30, 2011

SpiritPsalmist said:
I never said you were. I simply asked why we celebrate on a day that it did not happen when we do have a specific date that it did happen? I pointed out that "The date many churches celebrate on actually coincides with a pagan celebration of which many even use the same pagan name (Easter) and use bunny's, chicks, and eggs as part of their celebration to apply to the resurrection when the two have absolutely nothing to do with each other".

I personally think we are to celebrate every day what He's done for us. However, I still don't understand why we would continue to go with the worlds set aside date, calling it by the same name as their celebration and not give HIM HIS own special set aside date (of which we do have knowledge of), apart from all the rest of the worlds attentions of bunny's, chicks, eggs, candy, etc..

I posted this earlier but my posts seem to be invisible right now. The current calculation of the date of Easter has no connection to a pagan date. It is incredibly similar to the Jewish calculation (luni-solar calendar used with dates normally very close) but is set to fall on a Sunday. Feel free to refute with a source.

Yitzchak said:
So I don't really understand this cavalier attitude that is taken with regards to holiness.

I don't understand the need to see paganism behind every corner. Yes, some of our traditions stem from pre-Christian practices - but as they stand they are completely removed from their pagan context and the practices themselves are in no way sinful. To say that a Christian, who is a faithful servant of Christ in other respects, who has a tree in their house on December 25th or eats a chocolate egg on Easter day or has candles on their cake on their birthday is in any meaningful way tainted by paganism is absurd. God's concern for holiness concerns our heart and motivations not external acts that are completely innocent but may or may not have vague pagan connections thousands of years ago.

Yitzchak · Apr 30, 2011

I look forward to the day when those who lay claim to Christian maturity will walk that maturity out in the area of holiness and people's personal convictions. It grieves my spirit every time I see a group of Christians claiming to be mature by making fun of someone who stands for holiness by not having television or not celebrating Halloween.

Did any of you ever consider a response like this. I don't share your tradition , but I respect your wanting to follow Christ 100% in every thing that you do.

Has any of you ever considered that you might be wrong on one of these issues and maybe God is not pleased with just doing whatever comes naturally to do ? Maybe God actually sent this other person into your life on the message board to show you something different ?

I have seen a lot of Christians on here make fun of people for their stance for holiness. Even randomly throw out accusations about the person's standing with Christ, calling them legalistic and telling them they are not under God's grace.

I've been on this message board for 8 years now. And it amazes me that people routinely mock other people's faith in such a cavalier manner. And even worse . It is done in the name of God and in the name of Christian maturity.

I have said it before. to the gentle be gentle and to the bold be bold. Fair enough. We all have seen the occasional person who comes on here and says you're all sinners who are going to hell because you celebrate Halloween or something like that , and takes a radical stance that lacks any desire to discuss anything. I say even they could be used by God , But at leats I can understand feeling the need to stand against such things.

But do you really feel good about messing with someone's head who is trying to work out their walk with Christ ? Are you so sure it is the best and right thing to tell them go ahead and do these things that their conscience is telling them not to do ?

Are you "eating" with offense ? Is that really a neutral thing ?

Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Have you ever considered commending someone who posts that they want things to be pure and right and pleasing to God ?

Sorry , but I am not buying into this claim of moral high ground that many use to say they are operating from a place of greater maturity and freedom and love. These arguments bring out the ugly side and show that is not the case.

The conclusion ( generalization here ) that I draw is that most people are just stubborn and think that their way is the only right way. The old no one is going to tell me anything.

Most of the posters on here remind me of teenagers. If I say the wall is white , you say it is grey just to disagree.

Go ahead and post on any subject and see how long before it turns into an argument. All by " mature and very wise people." Pick any of 100 subjects.

If I say that I speak English , the n someone will say only those from the U.K. speak true English. You are speaking something else , not English.

If I say that I was praying and God told me I need to be more humble , all the insecure neurotics come out of the woodwork telling me I shouldn't be into works like that.

Fill in the blank. Are any of you actually considering what the opening poster said ? Or was your mind made up from the start. no one is going to tell you anything different.

Some will take it so far that they will even argue with this very post.

If this post does not apply to you , feel free to ignore it.

psalms 91 · Apr 30, 2011

Absolutely Yitchak. I would not be on here if I was not firm in what I believe, is it evolving and growing? Of course but once I know that it is something God wants then I do it. Passover is an example of a feast that God says we are to celebrate eternally. I dont think He changed His mind because we want to do Easter. I respect wwhat others want to do but I think the larger issue is what does God want us to do. Counting the omer is another one that comes under attack as well buit there is no harm in doing it and you might even learn something by readiing the scriptures as they all deal with issues we may have. Every reading gives us something to think about and examine ourselves

gratefulgrace · Apr 30, 2011

Yitzchak said:
Actually birthdays are of pagan origin also. Many in the early church refused to celebrate birthdays out of Christian conviction . It's public knowledge. Look it up.

All of the symbols like birthday candles are symbolizing occult and false worship of other gods.

The thing that amazes me, as the opening poster already mentioned is that people after they find out these facts are stubborn as a mule in the face of it.

I think the real sin goes deeper than just picking up the heathen customs of the nations around them. Something which the scripture warns against. it speaks to the root of the doctrine of holiness.

My self , I am glad that God is not 99.9999% love , goodness and holiness. I am glad that he is 100% pure. The scripture tells me to keep myself pure and unspotted form the world. To be Holy as he is holy.

So I don't really understand this cavalier attitude that is taken with regards to holiness.

This side issue , as you call it. Takes up many many chapters of the eternal word of God. it seems to me that it takes away from the message when those who profess to follow Christi do not follow his word but brush it aside as a side issue. The issue I am refering to is holiness and being unspoted from the world. The scripture goes as far as to say , friendship with the world is enmity with God.

Holiness is a part of the message. Christians by partaking of the world's sins have lost their opening to be a witness by standing for holiness. the funny thing is that I have traveled quite a bit and every place I have gone it seems like very close to 100% of the unsaved have heard the message of Seventh day Adventists and Jehovah's witnesses. Because down to the last one of them , they will say they are the group that doesn't celebrate birthdays and Christmas and stuff.

This technique of witnessing by our actions was also used in past generations by the church. People refused to go to movies or work on Sunday , kiss on a date. Things like that.

Consider the witness that the world talks about now. Christians are hypocrites who are just as bad as us and yet they tell us we are sinners.

The point ,a s I said it much deeper than having a conviction about one particular issue or not. It is the fact that there are no convictions about any issue. I would like to know , how and when the message of not loving the world and being a seperate people is lived out ?? it seems like the teaching is do whatever you want and just put God's name to it. To my thinking that violates one of the The ten Commandments which says not to carry his name in vain. and not to make images of other gods that we put in front of His face.

This professed lack of sincerity in the worship of these images that God commanded against really rings hollow when those confronted about such things have a mocking tone to their response.

These are deadly serious issues. If you really think that Romans 14 applies . It seems to be the favorite passage of those who engage in pagan holidays, then you would follow that scripture and not rub it in the nose of those who have convictions against it. Can't have it both ways.

I think it exceeds the bound of Christian freedom to have a cavalier attitude about worldly and pagan celebrations. Things have gone far past the question of whether you can buy the Easter candy on sale the week after the holiday.

But for the sake of argument, let's say you do have that much freedom in Christ . the what of the passages which instruct against a careless and inconsiderate use of that freedom.

You are posting in a thread posted by a Christian who is very sincerely trying to live holy. Your post seems more concerned with winning an argument than it is with respecting this sister's convictions.

I doubt that was your intention. But take a step back and think about it. Wouldn't it be a better response to agree with the basic idea of holiness and simply state that you work out your holiness in a different way than them rather than putting down their attempts to live wholeheartedly for God.

Parading your participation in pagan rituals is not a virtue. If you want to speak about your freedom in Christ , then that can be done without putting down someone's convictions.

So according to your convictions posted here It seems it is a sin to celebrate the Birth of Jesus then. Hmmmm.

gratefulgrace · Apr 30, 2011

Yitzchak said:
I look forward to the day when those who lay claim to Christian maturity will walk that maturity out in the area of holiness and people's personal convictions. It grieves my spirit every time I see a group of Christians claiming to be mature by making fun of someone who stands for holiness by not having television or not celebrating Halloween.

Did any of you ever consider a response like this. I don't share your tradition , but I respect your wanting to follow Christ 100% in every thing that you do.

Has any of you ever considered that you might be wrong on one of these issues and maybe God is not pleased with just doing whatever comes naturally to do ? Maybe God actually sent this other person into your life on the message board to show you something different ?

I have seen a lot of Christians on here make fun of people for their stance for holiness. Even randomly throw out accusations about the person's standing with Christ, calling them legalistic and telling them they are not under God's grace.

I've been on this message board for 8 years now. And it amazes me that people routinely mock other people's faith in such a cavalier manner. And even worse . It is done in the name of God and in the name of Christian maturity.

I have said it before. to the gentle be gentle and to the bold be bold. Fair enough. We all have seen the occasional person who comes on here and says you're all sinners who are going to hell because you celebrate Halloween or something like that , and takes a radical stance that lacks any desire to discuss anything. I say even they could be used by God , But at leats I can understand feeling the need to stand against such things.

But do you really feel good about messing with someone's head who is trying to work out their walk with Christ ? Are you so sure it is the best and right thing to tell them go ahead and do these things that their conscience is telling them not to do ?

Are you "eating" with offense ? Is that really a neutral thing ?

Have you ever considered commending someone who posts that they want things to be pure and right and pleasing to God ?

Sorry , but I am not buying into this claim of moral high ground that many use to say they are operating from a place of greater maturity and freedom and love. These arguments bring out the ugly side and show that is not the case.

The conclusion ( generalization here ) that I draw is that most people are just stubborn and think that their way is the only right way. The old no one is going to tell me anything.

Most of the posters on here remind me of teenagers. If I say the wall is white , you say it is grey just to disagree.

Go ahead and post on any subject and see how long before it turns into an argument. All by " mature and very wise people." Pick any of 100 subjects.

If I say that I speak English , the n someone will say only those from the U.K. speak true English. You are speaking something else , not English.

If I say that I was praying and God told me I need to be more humble , all the insecure neurotics come out of the woodwork telling me I shouldn't be into works like that.

Fill in the blank. Are any of you actually considering what the opening poster said ? Or was your mind made up from the start. no one is going to tell you anything different.

Some will take it so far that they will even argue with this very post.

If this post does not apply to you , feel free to ignore it.

Did any of you ever consider a response like this. I don't share your tradition , but I respect your wanting to follow Christ 100% in every thing that you do.

No because and you answer for me in your following post. It is never posited like "Hey man these are my convictions I feel firmly that I am following the Lord on this one. I am sharing it for your interest' No it is always hey you know that I am right. You are are a closest pagan and you are missing out on God and grieving him by your celebration of (fill in the blank with easter christmas birthdays all hallows eve etc etc etc) Many of us have considered our stand and have our own spiritual convictions on the matter that we feel are God led and Biblically sound, but apparently these are not respected as you suggest we do to the person pointing out our "errors"

Has any of you ever considered that you might be wrong on one of these issues and maybe God is not pleased with just doing whatever comes naturally to do ? Maybe God actually sent this other person into your life on the message board to show you something different ?

psalms 91 · Apr 30, 2011

gratefulgrace said:
Did any of you ever consider a response like this. I don't share your tradition , but I respect your wanting to follow Christ 100% in every thing that you do.

No because and you answer for me in your following post. It is never posited like "Hey man these are my convictions I feel firmly that I am following the Lord on this one. I am sharing it for your interest' No it is always hey you know that I am right. You are are a closest pagan and you are missing out on God and grieving him by your celebration of (fill in the blank with easter christmas birthdays all hallows eve etc etc etc) Many of us have considered our stand and have our own spiritual convictions on the matter that we feel are God led and Biblically sound, but apparently these are not respected as you suggest we do to the person pointing out our "errors"

Has any of you ever considered that you might be wrong on one of these issues and maybe God is not pleased with just doing whatever comes naturally to do ? Maybe God actually sent this other person into your life on the message board to show you something different ?

If this is so then why does God say that there are feasts to be celebrated eternally? Why does it say that during the millenial nations will go up to Jerusalem? What feasst dioes that come from? It isnt Easter. The problem is that when it is biblically sound and presented that way people do not want to admit that tradition is wrong. Anything not supported by the bible is the traditions of men.

SpiritPsalmist · Apr 30, 2011

Markus6 said:
I posted this earlier but my posts seem to be invisible right now. The current calculation of the date of Easter has no connection to a pagan date. It is incredibly similar to the Jewish calculation (luni-solar calendar used with dates normally very close) but is set to fall on a Sunday. Feel free to refute with a source.

Easter is always set as the first Sunday after the first full moon after the spring equinox.

Passover is a fixed date, set up by GOD (Ex. 12:14-20, 13:1-10 and Lev. 23:4-8).

Passover and Easter sometimes coincide, but in some years, they are a great distance apart. The Hebrew calendar is based on the moon, while the Gregorian calendar is based on the sun.

SpiritPsalmist · Apr 30, 2011

Svt4Him said:
My friend didn't have a birth certificate (no, he's not the president now, he has one) when he was brought over to Canada. Therefore he made his birthday up. Apparently it's also the day of a pagan holiday, so when we sang happy birthday to him, we were worshipping the devil.

Yup, makes sense to me. Seems people are so comfortable in their foxhole that they start attacking one another instead of finishing the mission Jesus assigned us to. That to me is a bigger issue than my friends birthday.

I have not attacked anyone. I merely posed a question with my reasoning's as to why I pose the question. It appears very much to me like my Christian background resembles more the ways of the world than it does the way God set things up.

In the event that HE were to ask me why I did not do things according to the way that He said, I would not be able to say, I did not know (as if it would make a difference anyway in this world of so much available information), because I do. So for myself, I'm seeing changes that I need to make....and they are not easy.

Yitzchak · Apr 30, 2011

gratefulgrace said:
So according to your convictions posted here It seems it is a sin to celebrate the Birth of Jesus then. Hmmmm.

I don't celebrate Christmas , If that is what you are asking. The Bible teaches us to take communion to remember his death. It never tells us to celebrate his birthday and does not even provide us with the date of his birth.

Christmas is completely man made. This is not refering to you. But it does amaze me that all of the ones on here who cry out that you are into works if you bring up fasting or praying or repenting , and yet they are completely silent about Christmas which is completely man made worship and religion. Anyway, I guess it is harder to see it when it is your own traditions.

First point. Jews did not celebrate birthdays. Jesus who was Jewish never instituted birthdays celebrations. The apostles never celebrated birthdays. they were all Jewish.

From a well known Jewish website.

http://http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2527/jewish/What-Happened-on-Your-Birthday.htm

But as a rule, Jews did not celebrate their birthdays. Indeed, while the dates of passing (yahrtzeit) of the great figures of Jewish history are recorded and commemorated, their dates of birth are mostly unknown.

From another website concerning birthdays.

Did Early Christians Celebrate Birthdays?

The Encyclopedia Judaica could not be more blunt: "The celebration of birthdays is unknown in traditional Jewish ritual." In fact, it says, the only birthday party mentioned in the Bible is for Pharaoh!

The first century Jewish historian Josephus noted that Jewish families did not celebrate birthdays:

Second point , the early church did not celebrate birthdays for the first 300 years of the church. In fact they taught against it.

the writings of the early third century Catholic theologian Origen of Alexandria show that, even that late, Orthodox Catholics were against the celebration of birthdays. The Catholic Encyclopedia states:

Origen, glancing perhaps at the discreditable imperial Natalitia, asserts (in Lev. Hom. viii in Migne, P.G., XII, 495) that in the Scriptures sinners alone, not saints, celebrate their birthday (Martindale C. Christmas, 1908).

Click to expand...

The Catholic Encyclopedia teaches that:

Christmas was not among the earliest festivals of the Church (Martindale C. Transcribed by Susanti A. Suastika. Christmas. The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume III. Copyright © 1908 by Robert Appleton Company. Online Edition Copyright © 2003 by K. Knight. Nihil Obstat, November 1, 1908. Remy Lafort, S.T.D., Censor. Imprimatur. +John Cardinal Farley, Archbishop of New York).

If you want to celebrate this tradition of Christmas , it is upon you to justify it to your satisfaction. It is not something that comes from the Bible. It is an extra added by man.

I believe that by proclaiming Christmas to be a day of worship to the one true God , Christians have identified it as a holy day. Because the bible teaches that the worship that we bring must be holy. To have unholy pagan practices involved and then call it worship is against what the bible teaches us about our worship..

You can't have it both ways. If you call it worship and say Hmmm because it troubles you for me to speak against someone's worship as bad. Then you are indentifying it as worship.

If someone calls it neutral and says it has nothing to do with their Christian faith, I'm actually more comfortable with that. Then it is about Snow men and sleigh rides and Santa Claus. Cultural icons that have pagan roots. But not brought before a holy God as worship offered to him.

But if you say it is a day dedicated to honoring Jesus , then what place do these pagan idols have in your worship ?

So yes, It can be a sin to bring an unholy worship to God and think it is o.k. simply because we attach God's name to it. Not all worship is acceptable to God. It is a jump to say it is definitely sin since the bible does not speak about it directly and we are making applications of Bible principles.

If you want to worship God through traditions , My advice would be to clean up those traditions and seperate out the leaven. Leave the pagan elements out of it. Then you have something worthy of defending.

If it is possible to celebrate Christmas in a way that is acceptable to God or not sin as you put it. Then cleaning it up of the impurities of unholy idol worship is the best way to go.

Yitzchak · Apr 30, 2011

gratefulgrace said:
Did any of you ever consider a response like this. I don't share your tradition , but I respect your wanting to follow Christ 100% in every thing that you do.

No because and you answer for me in your following post. It is never posited like "Hey man these are my convictions I feel firmly that I am following the Lord on this one. I am sharing it for your interest' No it is always hey you know that I am right. You are are a closest pagan and you are missing out on God and grieving him by your celebration of (fill in the blank with easter christmas birthdays all hallows eve etc etc etc) Many of us have considered our stand and have our own spiritual convictions on the matter that we feel are God led and Biblically sound, but apparently these are not respected as you suggest we do to the person pointing out our "errors"

Has any of you ever considered that you might be wrong on one of these issues and maybe God is not pleased with just doing whatever comes naturally to do ? Maybe God actually sent this other person into your life on the message board to show you something different ?

As I posted earlier . it is hardly a neutral ground in today's church where everyone is free to follow their convictions. Almost every church plans their scheduled services and spends their resources upon Christmas. They force Christmas upon their members whether they want it or not. the only option left is to leave for a month until it is all over.

Besides that , I preached against pagan things in our worship. It is hard for me to conceive of what biblical foundations your convictions rest upon to include pagan things in your worship. I have yet to get any solid answer to this in dozens of discussions about it.

It boils down to a defense of man made tradition. I am left to guess as to how it makes sense to people to not be concerned about the issue of holiness in these matters.

Virtually every pastor and every church knows about the issue by now. None can really plead ignorance. To be blunt it does come across as just plain stubborness that people want their way about it whther it is biblical or not.

As one poster pointed out. Why not simply make the adjustment to make it more biblical ??

probinson · Apr 30, 2011

SpiritPsalmist said:
It was not just a gift that I did not want....I had specifically written "no candy", and the person chose to ignore that request and gave it to me anyways 'cause it's what she enjoyed and wanted to do.

So then are you saying that God wants us to celebrate the resurrection on a specific date? Scripture please?

SpiritPsalmist said:
Do you deny that there are things God has told us specifically that He does not want? Do you think it's ok for us to do it anyway 'cause it makes us feel good?

Of course not.

But one of those things is not the date of the celebration of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

SpiritPsalmist said:
I'm no one's judge, I'm just pointing out some possibilities of where we may be infracting without meaning to. Is it too much to search the scripture and ask God if we are? Then listening to Him and act upon whatever HE tells us?

As I've already said earlier in this thread, if that is your conviction, then live it. I'm not begrudging your celebration of the resurrection on the date that you choose. However, you don't seem willing to extend the same courtesy to those of us who feel absolutely no conviction about celebrating the resurrection on Easter Sunday.

SpiritPsalmist said:
I never said you were. I simply asked why we celebrate on a day that it did not happen when we do have a specific date that it did happen?

But you've not illustrated that at all. There is much debate over when the resurrection actually occurred. And IMO, it's complete frivolity to try and pinpoint the exact date of the resurrection.

However, if it is important to you, then by all means search it out, but what I am saying is that it's not right for you to impose your personal convictions on others concerning the date of the resurrection.

SpiritPsalmist said:
I pointed out that "The date many churches celebrate on actually coincides with a pagan celebration of which many even use the same pagan name (Easter) and use bunny's, chicks, and eggs as part of their celebration to apply to the resurrection when the two have absolutely nothing to do with each other".

And I've already told you that Easter means nothing of the sort to me. It is a special day to remember the victorious resurrection of Jesus Christ.

SpiritPsalmist said:
I personally think we are to celebrate every day what He's done for us.

On this point, we absolutely agree.

SpiritPsalmist said:
However, I still don't understand why we would continue to go with the worlds set aside date, calling it by the same name as their celebration and not give HIM HIS own special set aside date (of which we do have knowledge of), apart from all the rest of the worlds attentions of bunny's, chicks, eggs, candy, etc..

And as I've said, if that is your conviction, then don't celebrate it that way.

I have no such conviction. I find it far more important to rejoice that JESUS IS ALIVE than I do in worrying about the date on the calendar it happened.

probinson · Apr 30, 2011

gratefulgrace said:
Did any of you ever consider a response like this. I don't share your tradition , but I respect your wanting to follow Christ 100% in every thing that you do.

No because and you answer for me in your following post. It is never posited like "Hey man these are my convictions I feel firmly that I am following the Lord on this one. I am sharing it for your interest' No it is always hey you know that I am right. You are are a closest pagan and you are missing out on God and grieving him by your celebration of (fill in the blank with easter christmas birthdays all hallows eve etc etc etc) Many of us have considered our stand and have our own spiritual convictions on the matter that we feel are God led and Biblically sound, but apparently these are not respected as you suggest we do to the person pointing out our "errors"

Has any of you ever considered that you might be wrong on one of these issues and maybe God is not pleased with just doing whatever comes naturally to do ? Maybe God actually sent this other person into your life on the message board to show you something different ?

This response deserves 4 thumbs up!

I don't make fun of or mock people who choose not to celebrate Easter, Christmas, birthdays, etc. for whatever reasons. However, the same courtesy is not extended from the other side of the debate.

If you want to celebrate Passover, then by all means, do it. If you don't want to celebrate Christmas, then don't! But don't try to say that "Maybe God is not pleased because you don't celebrate on the "right" day... like I do."

If you want people to respect your personal convictions, then start by showing that same respect you desire to other's personal convictions.

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