Darwinism is a Pseudo-Science (2)

[PsychoSarah]

We really don't have the first cell so we don't have a direct comparison now do we? So complex to you would mean more specialized parts?

It is the arbitrary comparison between ancient cell fossils and modern ones that defines it that way. Personally, I view complexity always to be a matter of comparison, with nothing really just being inherently complex or simple without having it compared to something else.

 

[justlookinla]

Meh, I'm not impressed. Look man, I repeat, just because it seems awfully complex with all its parts doesn't mean there aren't things in nature that exceed that complexity, arbitrary even as that term is.

When you find something more complex than the life form I described, let me know.

 

[justlookinla]

I did not. I said that complexity in and of itself does not imply design. More must be known about the thing in question to even imply much less conclude it was designed.

A thunderstorm is complex, yet most people would not consider a thunderstorm to be designed.

Does complexity EVER imply design?

 

[PsychoSarah]

When you find something more complex than the life form I described, let me know.

Complex on a whole, or just various parts? Because I can name creatures that exceed our complexity overall as well as in individual aspects, so long as it isn't our brains.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Does complexity EVER imply design?

Not by itself.

 

[justlookinla]

Complex on a whole, or just various parts? Because I can name creatures that exceed our complexity overall as well as in individual aspects, so long as it isn't our brains.

LOL. You can name something more complex as long as you don't include the entirety of the life form?

 

[DerelictJunction]

Is a human complex? Is a Boeing 777 complex?

Folks love to evade the complexity issue.

How am I evading it?
You're the one who claims that complexity implies design.

Which is more complex, a Boeing 777 or a snowstorm? Please state your reasons for the choice you make.

I am going with the snowstorm as more complex because it requires more information than the Boeing 777 to describe everything that is going on in detail.

Which one is designed and which one came about by naturalistic processes?

 

[justlookinla]

Not by itself.

What do you mean by "by itself"?

 

[justlookinla]

How am I evading it?
You're the one who claims that complexity implies design.

Which is more complex, a Boeing 777 or a snowstorm? Please state your reasons for the choice you make.

I am going with the snowstorm as more complex because it requires more information than the Boeing 777 to describe everything that is going on in detail.

Which one is designed and which one came about by naturalistic processes?

Why would you consider one designed and another not designed?

 

[PsychoSarah]

LOL. You can name something more complex as long as you don't include the entirety of the life form?

No... I can name organisms which on a whole are more complex than us as well. In fact, there are species which have more developed portions of the brain even than humans do, so the only thing I really can't do is name a species with a more complex frontal lobe.

 

[PsychoSarah]

What do you mean by "by itself"?

If the only information given is that something can be viewed as complex, that isn't enough to determine if it is designed or not.

 

[DerelictJunction]

Does complexity EVER imply design?

Depends on the circumstances surrounding "EVER". However, complexity itself does not guarantee design. What I type below is not complex yet it is surely designed, but a snowstorm, which is very complex, is not designed.

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[DerelictJunction]

Why would you consider one designed and another not designed?

The snowstorm comes about by naturalistic processes. So it is not designed.

 

[justlookinla]

How am I evading it?
You're the one who claims that complexity implies design.

Which is more complex, a Boeing 777 or a snowstorm? Please state your reasons for the choice you make.

I am going with the snowstorm as more complex because it requires more information than the Boeing 777 to describe everything that is going on in detail.

Which one is designed and which one came about by naturalistic processes?

And this folks is a perfect example of evasion.

 

[justlookinla]

No... I can name organisms which on a whole are more complex than us as well. In fact, there are species which have more developed portions of the brain even than humans do, so the only thing I really can't do is name a species with a more complex frontal lobe.

Then you cannot name a life form which is more complex than the life form I described. How about an example of a non-life form?

 

[PsychoSarah]

And this folks is a perfect example of evasion.

Do please define what you consider to be a measure of complexity though please. Mine is too comparison based to apply well to your questions.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Then you cannot name a life form which is more complex than the life form I described. How about an example of a non-life form?

-_- yes I can, if a life form is more complex than another significantly in more than half its aspects, wouldn't you say that makes that life form more complex? If the frontal lobe of the human was the only part more complex than the organism being compared to it on a whole, would you honestly still conclude humans were the more complex of the two?

Non-life? The internet and its collective information I have already mentioned.

 

[Davian]

And this folks is a perfect example of evasion.

Actually, this ^^^ is an example of evasion. Answer his question.

 

[Oncedeceived]

You have been over this before. To determine complexity, a metric of some sort is required. How do we measure complexity to decide if one object is more or less complex than another?

Last time you avoided this question by showing pictures of two planes and saying that one is more complex than the other but carefully avoided the question of measurement.

So back to the question, how do measure complexity in such a way that different objective individuals can determine if one object is more complex than another? Be specific.

If you wish to tackle it, a good exercise might be to take a golf ball, a snowflake and a hurricane. Which is more complex? How do you know? Which is designed and how do your know?

Again be specific. This is science and personal opinions do not count.


Dizredux

I would like you to answer those questions please.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Crystals, for one, can form quite complex matrices, given enough time, without any apparent intervention from an intelligent force.

Walls of various rocks and materials can form in nature. It is hard to say though if you would recognize it as designed or not; brick isn't exactly naturally occurring.

You have to make solid boundaries on what does and does not count as design if we are to debate properly. It is near impossible to debate ambiguous positions.

That goes both ways. What solid boundaries do you base non-design on?