PsychoSarah
Chaotic Neutral
No. Not yet, anyways. Although, I could argue that the networks of information on the internet might be collectively more complex than a human, I suppose.
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Do you have an example of non-naturalistic processes designing and building something more complex than the life form I described?
You have been over this before. To determine complexity, a metric of some sort is required. How do we measure complexity to decide if one object is more or less complex than another?Of course it's true. You seem to be suggesting that complexity NEVER implies design?
To you, is a Boeing 777 complex?
No. Not yet, anyways. Although, I could argue that the networks of information on the internet might be collectively more complex than a human, I suppose.
I don't really consider humans complex, in a macro view of the universe. Just because things at times are difficult for us to understand, or seem to have many parts doesn't really make it all that complex to me. Not in a particularly significant way, that is.
Complexity would then be an indication of design.
Stop beating 'round the bush.
Complex: Composed of many interconnected parts.
You have been over this before. To determine complexity, a metric of some sort is required. How do we measure complexity to decide if one object is more or less complex than another?
Last time you avoided this question by showing pictures of two planes and saying that one is more complex than the other but carefully avoided the question of measurement.
So back to the question, how do measure complexity in such a way that different objective individuals can determine if one object is more complex than another? Be specific.
If you wish to tackle it, a good exercise might be to take a golf ball, a snowflake and a hurricane. Which is more complex? How do you know? Which is designed and how do your know?
Again be specific. This is science and personal opinions do not count.
Dizredux
At least you made the attempt at defining complex in a way that can be measured. Not all are willing to do this.Stop beating 'round the bush.
Complex: Composed of many interconnected parts.
How does science determine the "first" cell as simple and cell today as complex?
No. Airplanes are surprisingly simple actually.
If you are describing a human, there are "more complex" life forms than us on earth by far.[/Qoute]
To make this statement you are claiming that you do have some sort of measurement by which you determine complexity. What is that measurement?
Is a snowstorm complex?What do you base your assessment that complexity exists without design?
You could recognize that it MAY be designed but you could not SHOW that it is designed.Are you trying to convince me that if we had never seen a brick wall or know the designer we would be unable to recognize it as designed?
If it is not necessary, then the presence of regularity isn't necessarily a hallmark of design.regularity is one aspect of design but not a necessary one.
Intense study as you can see by reading the article I linked you to and, possibly reading the references provided in that article.So scientific methodology was used to determine that the natural formation was not due to actual design. How? What did they base their conclusions on?
Might I suggest you address the questions I was asking first.How does science determine the "first" cell as simple and cell today as complex?
To make this statement you are claiming that you do have some sort of measurement by which you determine complexity. What is that measurement?
You have been over this before. To determine complexity, a metric of some sort is required. How do we measure complexity to decide if one object is more or less complex than another?
Last time you avoided this question by showing pictures of two planes and saying that one is more complex than the other but carefully avoided the question of measurement.
So back to the question, how do measure complexity in such a way that different objective individuals can determine if one object is more complex than another? Be specific.
If you wish to tackle it, a good exercise might be to take a golf ball, a snowflake and a hurricane. Which is more complex? How do you know? Which is designed and how do your know?
Again be specific. This is science and personal opinions do not count.
Dizredux
Well, this is just amazing. Are you aware of the complexity of the fly by wire system in an of itself? And this is just a part of the complexity of the 777.
Is a snowstorm complex?
Is a snowstorm designed or does it happen through naturalistic processes?
Is a snowstorm more complex than the number "2"?
Is the number "2" designed or does it happen through naturalistic processes.
You could recognize that it MAY be designed but you could not SHOW that it is designed.
If it is not necessary, then the presence of regularity isn't necessarily a hallmark of design.
Intense study as you can see by reading the article I linked you to and, possibly reading the references provided in that article.
I did not. I said that complexity in and of itself does not imply design. More must be known about the thing in question to even imply much less conclude it was designed.Of course it's true. You seem to be suggesting that complexity NEVER implies design?
Relative to each other; the "simple" cells had fewer, less specialized parts than the "more complex" modern ones. However, since it is a direct comparison, that doesn't make either necessarily simple or complex.
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