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Dare We Admit That Not All Will Be Saved?

Discussion in 'One Bread, One Body - Catholic' started by Michie, Oct 26, 2020.

  1. Michie

    Michie Human rights begin in the womb. Supporter

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    “To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God’s merciful love means remaining separated from him forever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called ‘hell.’” (CCC 1033)


    Universalism is the Protestant, Muslim and gnostic idea that regardless of what anyone wants, does or cheers for, everyone must go to Heaven, nolens volens –– against his will. No one has a choice. Murderer and victim. Burglar and burgled. Drunk and teetotaler.

    Let’s break down the arguments against this pernicious and baseless notion:

    1. If universalism is correct, it would mean Jesus was wrong. And not just merely wrong in the conventual sense as in “missed the mark,” but rather in the sense of being a spectacularly crazed lunatic. I’m very wary of Christians who say, explicitly or implicitly, “Had Jesus only had the common sense and decency to have consulted me, I could have explained to Him why He was so dreadfully wrong.” There’s no doubt God wants us all in Heaven (Psalm 98:3, Psalm 67:2, Isaiah 45:22, Zechariah 8:7, Luke 13:23, John 5:34, Romans 11:26, Romans 10:1, 1 Timothy 2:4). But each time God or his mouthpieces announced his desire that all may be saved, he added a proviso. “Repent!” “Be holy as I am holy!” He never said, “Sin and sin boldly!” or “Knock yourselves out! I didn’t expect anyone to take this stuff seriously!”

    2. Universalism cheapens not only Christ’s message but also casts doubt upon who and what Jesus is. Why trust anyone who is so wrong about his own message? But the truth is twofold: (1) We have no proof that Jesus was wrong about Christian ecclesiology –– he’s God and he has always told us the truth (Genesis 22:16). Why come to doubt him now? (2) We have absolutely zero proof that universalism is correct. Why would a universalist ignore more than 100 references to Hell in the New Testament alone? Could Jesus be that wrong or is it just the universalists who are wrong?

    Continued below.
    Dare We Admit That Not All Will Be Saved?
     
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  2. Xenophon

    Xenophon Well-Known Member

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    Christ dared to admit that not all will be saved, and he's a guy whose in the know about these things.
     
  3. AvilaSurfer

    AvilaSurfer Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If we’re all saved, what did Jesus save us from?
     
  4. Basil the Great

    Basil the Great Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I have never heard of Islam promoting Universalism, but maybe I missed something. Judaism has a wide range of views about the afterlife. The most common seems to be that all men and women who abide by the Noahide laws will have a place in Heaven, regardless of their religion. This comes closer to Universalism than Christianity, but still not complete Universalism. As to Catholicism, the well known theologian Balthasar taught that it is acceptable to hope that all will be saved, but to to profess such as a fact. I seem to recall that either Benedict or John Paul II called him his favorite theologian, not that either specifically endorsed his viewpoint on salvation. Having said this, while Balthasar's teaching is attractive, it is not in accord with the last line of the Athanasian Creed, let alone the New Testament.
     
  5. Michie

    Michie Human rights begin in the womb. Supporter

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    So what’s your point as far as Islam?
     
  6. Basil the Great

    Basil the Great Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Nothing special. I was just saying that I was not aware of the connection to Islam. I guess I wondered if you were possibly was thinking of Judaism? As far as Protestantism, some of the more liberal Protestants probably find favor with the doctrine, though probably the only group that professes it are the Unitarian-Universalists, though by the definition of CF and the Nicene Creed I guess they are not technically Christians or Protestants.
     
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