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Luke 21:20 tells us what is being made desolate.
Yeah, Jerusalem was surrounded by enemies. Foreign troop from the Roman Empire and Roman troops that has been garrisoned in Syria.
Before Jesus was born, before the Romans .. before Pompey set siege to Jerusalem in 63 BC they fought the Seleucid Greeks.
What I'm saying is, AE4 is nowhere to be found in Daniel 9:25-27, because the beginning of the 70 weeks have to start after Jerusalem has already been destroyed. 483 years earlier, meaning the first 69 weeks, from the time of 168 BC would place the beginning of the 70 weeks during a time when Jerusalem hasn't even been destroyed yet, thus making nonsense out of verse 25 in Daniel 9 since that verse is focusing on rebuilding a city that had previously been destroyed.
Luke 21:20 refers to 70 AD.
Maybe.. Some scholars think Gospel of Luke was written before Acts and before 62 AD.
Some think it was written (from Antioch) as late as 80-130 AD.
Gospel of Luke
You aren't paying attention.. This isn't hard. After the first temple was destroyed the Jews returned from Babylon and rebuilt it.. Much later Herod, a client king of Rome, expanded and improved the Temple Mount.
Unless my math is wrong, which I guess is possible, it is mathematically impossible to start at 168 BC, which is apparently meaning in the 70th week per your interpretation, then go back 69 weeks from there, the beginning of the 70 weeks, then arrive at a time when Jerusalem has already been destroyed.
Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
What I have underlined is apparently meaning when the 70 weeks initially begin. Obviously Jerusalem wouldn't need to be restored and built unless it was already destroyed first. Therefore, the 70 weeks can't initially begin until some time after 607 BC to 587 BC, depending on which of these 2 dates it was actually destroyed.
650 BC or so, meaning roughly 69 weeks earlier from 168 BC, is during a time when Jerusalem hasn't even been destroyed yet. Therefore it can't fit what I have underlined in verse 25 above. So unless my math is wrong, I would think this alone totally debunks that AE4 is meant in Daniel 9:25-27 somewhere.
After his Death, Jesus was in the "heart of the earth"
Matthew 12:40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
He had descended into the "lower parts of the earth"
Ephesians 4:9 What does “He ascended” mean, except that He also descended to the lower parts of the earth?
But God did not abandon him to hades, but raised Him from the dead.
Acts 2:31 Foreseeing this, David spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that He was not abandoned to Hades, nor did His body see decay.
Jesus did not specifically say he hadn't "physically" ascended. He only stated he had not yet ascended to the Father. Thus, any belief that Jesus ascended to father prior to the resurrection is a contradiction to the very words of Christ.
John 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them,
So you honestly don't believe matthew 22:7 is about 66-70ad? Most commentaries agree that is about 66-70ad.
Okay, so Matthew 24:15 ,..when you see standing in the holy place the abomination that causes desolation spoken by the Prophet Daniel ..etcYes, He is. Messiah.
Okay, so Matthew 24:15 ,..when you see standing in the holy place the abomination that causes desolation spoken by the Prophet Daniel ..etc
And since you establish that the He in daniel 9:27 is the Messiah...
Then,
Did anyone see the Messiah standing in AD70...in the holy place? I think the holy place is referring to the holy place in temple...
And,
If you say is the Messiah was acting through the Roman armies then show a verse that directly shows it was the Messiah was seen literally directing the Roman armies to destroy Jerusalem...because in Matthew 24:15 Jesus said if you "see"...I mean literally...
I don’t believe it was the Messiah the abomination in Daniel 9:27...that why I asked you in that post,of who is the "He" mention is Daniel 9:27..and you reply the Messiah...Do you think Messiah was the abomination?
Who do you think was directing the Roman armies to carry out God's judgment upon Jerusalem?
What translation says "if you see"?
The people of the prince (Daniel 9:26) refers to the Roman armies which were Messiah the Prince's (Daniel 9:25) agents and instruments to accomplish the judgment and destruction which He had prophesied. God's use of such instruments, and His characterization of them as "mine" even though pagan, can be found in several OT instances e.g.:
Jeremiah 25
9 Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north, saith the Lord, and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations.
Jeremiah 43
10 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will send and take Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will set his throne upon these stones that I have hid; and he shall spread his royal pavilion over them.
God characterizes the pagan Nebuchadnezzar as "my servant" in using him and his armies against Judah and Egypt.
In the same way as Nebuchadnezzar, though a pagan, was God's servant in executing His judgment; so too were the pagan Roman armies (whose battle ensigns were abominations to the Jews) Messiah's people in accomplishing His purposes (the desolation of Jerusalem and Judea). (Daniel 9:26,27)
In addition, the Jews themselves, as the historical people of Messiah the Prince, were equally responsible for the suffering and destruction. Their own actions in defiling and destroying the buildings and temple prior to the Roman invasion are described by Josephus:
The Lamentation of Josephus
War 5.1.4 19-20
The darts that were thrown by the engines [of the seditious factions] came with that force, that they went over all the buildings and the Temple itself, and fell upon the priests and those that were about the sacred offices; insomuch that many persons who came thither with great zeal from the ends of the earth to offer sacrifices at this celebrated place, which was esteemed holy by all mankind, fell down before their own sacrifices themselves, and sprinkled that altar which was venerable among all men, both Greeks and barbarians, with their own blood. The dead bodies of strangers were mingled together with those of their own country, and those of profane persons with those of the priests, and the blood of all sorts of dead carcasses stood in lakes in the holy courts themselves.
Oh most wretched city, what misery so great as this didst thou suffer from the Romans, when they came to purify thee from thy internal pollutions! For thou couldst be no longer a place fit for God, nor couldst thou longer survive, after thou hadst been a sepulchre for the bodies of thine own people, and hast made the Holy House itself a burying-place in this civil war of thine. Yet mayst thou again grow better, if perchance thou wilt hereafter appease the anger of that God who is the author of thy destruction.
As seen, Josephus recognizes the Jews as complicit agents of their own destruction, and that destruction as Divinely orchestrated.
Contemporary Jewish historians concur:
"The scene was now set for the revolt's final catastrophe. Outside Jerusalem, Roman troops prepared to besiege the city; inside the city, the Jews were engaged in a suicidal civil war. In later generations, the rabbis hyperbolically declared that the revolt's failure, and the Temple's destruction, was due not to Roman military superiority but to causeless hatred (sinat khinam) among the Jews (Yoma 9b). While the Romans would have won the war in any case, the Jewish civil war both hastened their victory and immensely increased the casualties. One horrendous example: In expectation of a Roman siege, Jerusalem's Jews had stockpiled a supply of dry food that could have fed the city for many years. But one of the warring Zealot factions burned the entire supply, apparently hoping that destroying this "security blanket" would compel everyone to participate in the revolt. The starvation resulting from this mad act caused suffering as great as any the Romans inflicted."
The people, both Roman and Jewish, of the prince Messiah who was to come, were Messiah's agents and instruments in accomplishing His purposes of judgment and destruction upon those who had rejected Him.
Told you I'm not counting weeks. The Temple was rebuilt after they returned from Babylon. What are you talking about?
Which chapter or verse in Daniel Jesus is referring to..if you say Daniel 9:26...then there is no mention of the word abomination there..
Thanks
Told you I'm not counting weeks. The Temple was rebuilt after they returned from Babylon. What are you talking about?
So, did He go to Hades for 3 days?
It is YOU that is deflecting. I never said I disagreed with Matthew 22:7 referring to AD70.
1. Is the second coming of Christ a past event, an ongoing process or a literal physical future climactic event?
2. Is the resurrection of the dead a past event, an ongoing process or a literal physical future climactic event?
3. Please list the Scriptures you believe support these?
4. Tell us exactly what all happens at this coming?
I would say yes, as peter states that Christ was not abandoned to Hades because of the resurrection.
Acts 2:31 he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption
Additionally, prior to Jesus' death on the cross, the spirit already went to God, so the cross wouldn't have been the transition of going home to be with the Lord after death "in spirit", as you seem to argue in favor of.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
Good, I'm glad we agree that Matthew 22:7 is about 66-70ad.
what occurs after the city and people are destroyed in 66-70ad?
Daniel 7:17-18 These four great beasts are four kings who shall arise out of the earth. But the saints of the Most High shall receive the kingdom and possess the kingdom forever, forever and ever.’
Matthew 25:34 the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world
Matthew 24:34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
Daniel 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the stream; he raised his right hand and his left hand toward heaven and swore by him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time, and that when the shattering of the power of the holy people comes to an end all these things would be finished.
Acts 24:15 having a hope in God, which these men themselves accept, that there is about to be a resurrection of both the just and the unjust.
1 thessalonians 4:17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Blessed indeed,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them!”
Done, see above
Please see olivet discourse for details (Mark 13, Matthew 24, Luke 21)
If it is somehow meaning Jerusalem, which it could be, though I tend to doubt that it is, it wouldn't be meaning Jerusalem in the literal sense in the first century. It would have to be meaning Jesrusalem in some other sense, assuming Jerusalem were meant.
Yet, if one intreprets those same Scriptures like I do, they prove there is a delay since this would make the coming in Matthew 24:30 the same coming seen in Revelation 19. And if the coming in Matthew 24:30 is meaning Christ's coming in the end of this age via the way I interpret that verse, that makes the coming which starts in Revelation 19:11 as occurring in the end of this age as well, therefore placing the timing of Revelation 19:2 in the end of the age also. Further proving the wedding feast was put on hold for at least 2000 years or so, depending on when Christ actually returns since we don't know when that is, the fact it hasn't happened yet.
Clearly then, depending on how one interprets some of these things, makes all the difference in the world as to the end result. What one should be trying to do, regardless, is to be on the same page Jesus was when He spoke these things. If I am interpreting what Jesus said one way, and you are interpreting it another way, both of us can't be correct then. Either we are both wrong, or at least one of us is right.
You avoided my first 2 questions:
1. Is the second coming of Christ a past event, an ongoing process or a literal physical future climactic event?
2. Is the resurrection of the dead a past event, an ongoing process or a literal physical future climactic event?
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