Daniel 11:27 "2 Kings at one table"

[LittleLambofJesus]

Daniel is given a vision of a great war:

Daniel 10:
1 In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia, a message was revealed to Daniel, who was called Belteshazzar.
The message was true, and it concerned a great army-hosts<6635> [Revelation 16:14, 16 Armageddon/Gog-Magog?]

Daniel 11:
11 In a rage, the king of the South will march out to fight the king of the North, who will raise a large army<1995>, but it will be given over to the hand of his enemy.

If you read verse 27 word for word, it appears to say "one lie they will speak".
In either case, what is the falsehood/lie they speak and how did these 2 Kings end up being at a table together? Thanks for any help on this.

ISA Interlinear)
Daniel 11:
27 and two of them, the Kings, heart of them to evil-mischief<4827> and on/at a table one lie they shall speak.
And not she shall prosper, that further end/07093 qets to appointed-time/04150 mow`ed.
Rotherham(i) 27 Now, as for the two kings, their heart, will be set on acting wickedly, and, at one table, will they speak, falsehood,—but it shall not succeed, for yet is the end for an appointed time.

28 The king of the North will return to his land with great wealth, but his heart will be set against the holy covenant; so he will do damage and return to his own land.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Let's look at where #6635 is used in Daniel:

Daniel 10:
1 In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia, a message was revealed to Daniel, who was called Belteshazzar.
The message was true, and it concerned a great army-hosts<6635>

#6635 is used in 5 verses of Daniel
4 in Dan 8 and 1 in Dan 11

Dan 8:10 appears to be similar to Revelation 12:4?

Daniel 8:10
It grew as high as the host<6635> of the heavens,
and it cast down some of the host<6635> and some of the stars to the land, and trampled them.

Revelation 12:4
His/it's tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the land......

 

[brinny]

Ohhhhhhh.....never realized that....haven't studied Daniel enough, i see.

Fascinating.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Ohhhhhhh.....never realized that....haven't studied Daniel enough, i see.

Fascinating.

I am really starting to delve back into it, ever since I saw that connection earlier between Dan 11 and Revelation.

The phrases "King of the North" and "King of the South" occurs only in Daniel 11, according to a concordance.

http://www.eliyah.com/lexicon.html

I am rather intrigued with this "daughter of the King of the South"
[I am going to start translating that Chapter]

Daniel 11:6
“And at the end of some years they shall join forces, for the daughter of the King of the South shall go to the King of the North to make an agreement; but she shall not retain the power of her authority,[fn] and neither he nor his authority[fn] shall stand; but she shall be given up, with those who brought her, and with him who begot her, and with him who strengthened her in those times.

 

[brinny]

I am really starting to delve back into it, ever since I saw that connection earlier between Dan 11 and Revelation.

The phrases "King of the North" and "King of the South" occurs only in Daniel 11, according to a concordance.

http://www.eliyah.com/lexicon.html

I am rather intrigued with this "daughter of the King of the South"
[I am going to start translating that Chapter]

Daniel 11:6
“And at the end of some years they shall join forces, for the daughter of the King of the South shall go to the King of the North to make an agreement; but she shall not retain the power of her authority,[fn] and neither he nor his authority[fn] shall stand; but she shall be given up, with those who brought her, and with him who begot her, and with him who strengthened her in those times.

Sounds intriguing. Especially this:

"him who begot her"

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Daniel 11:
27 and two of them, the Kings, heart of them to evil-mischief<4827> and on/at a table<7979> one lie they shall speak.
And not she shall prosper<6743>, that further end/07093 qets to appointed-time/04150 mow`ed.

The phrase "two kings" are only used in a few verses of the OT, mainly in Joshua and Isaiah:

Joshua 2:10
We have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red Sea[fn] for you when you came out of Egypt, and what you did to Sihon and Og, the two kings of the Amorites east of the Jordan, whom you completely destroyed.[fn]

Isaiah 7:
14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you[fn] a sign: The virgin[fn] will conceive and give birth to a son, and[fn] will call him Immanuel.[fn]

16 for before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Daniel 11:
27 and two of them, the Kings, heart of them to evil-mischief<4827> and on/at a table<7979> one lie they shall speak.
And not she shall prosper<6743>, that further end/07093 qets to appointed-time/04150 mow`ed.

6743 tsalach tsaw-lakh' or tsaleach {tsaw-lay'-akh}; a primitive root; to push forward, in various senses (literal or figurative, transitive or intransitive):--break out, come (mightily), go over, be good, be meet, be profitable, (cause to, effect, make to, send) prosper(-ity, -ous, - ously).

#6743 is used in 5 verses of Daniel:

Daniel 8:
12 And on account of rebellion, the host and the daily sacrifice were given over to the horn, and it flung truth to the ground and prospered<6743> in whatever it did.
24 His power will be great, but it will not be his own. He will cause terrible destruction and succeed<6743> in whatever he does. He will destroy the mighty men along with the holy people.
25 Through his craft and by his hand, he will cause deceit to prosper<6743>, and in his own mind he will make himself great. In a time of peace he will destroy many, and he will even stand against the Prince of princes. Yet he will be broken off, but not by human hands.

Daniel 11:
27 And the two kings, with their hearts bent on evil, will speak lies at the same table, but to no avail<6743>, for still the end will come at the appointed time
36 Then the king will do as he pleases and will exalt and magnify himself above every god, and he will speak monstrous things against the God of gods.
He will be successful<6743> until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been decreed must be accomplished.

Exact form of #6743 used in 3 verses, Numb 14:14, Dan 11:27 and:

Ezekiel 17:
9 So you are to tell them that this is what the Lord GOD says:
‘Will it flourish<6743>?
Will it not be uprooted and stripped of its fruit so that it shrivels?
All its foliage will wither!
It will not take a strong arm or many people
to pull it up by its roots.

 

[Revealing Times]

Daniel is given a vision of a great war:

Daniel 10:
1 In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia, a message was revealed to Daniel, who was called Belteshazzar.
The message was true, and it concerned a great army-hosts<6635> [Revelation 16:14, 16 Armageddon/Gog-Magog?]

Daniel 11:
11 In a rage, the king of the South will march out to fight the king of the North, who will raise a large army<1995>, but it will be given over to the hand of his enemy.

If you read verse 27 word for word, it appears to say "one lie they will speak".
In either case, what is the falsehood/lie they speak and how did these 2 Kings end up being at a table together? Thanks for any help on this.

ISA Interlinear)
Daniel 11:
27 and two of them, the Kings, heart of them to evil-mischief<4827> and on/at a table one lie they shall speak.
And not she shall prosper, that further end/07093 qets to appointed-time/04150 mow`ed.
Rotherham(i) 27 Now, as for the two kings, their heart, will be set on acting wickedly, and, at one table, will they speak, falsehood,—but it shall not succeed, for yet is the end for an appointed time.

28 The king of the North will return to his land with great wealth, but his heart will be set against the holy covenant; so he will do damage and return to his own land.

From my thread.......study on Daniel 11 & 12. https://www.christianforums.com/threads/daniel-11-12-historically-explained-step-by-step.8049184/

27 And both of these kings' hearts shall be to do mischief, and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper: for yet the end shall be at the time appointed.

Watching Antiochus Epiphanes operate must have been enthralling back in the day. He pretended to support Ptolemy VI his blood kin, and he pretended to have his best interest in mind, but the truth is he was pitting him against his own brother Ptolemy VII the whole time. Ptolemy VII was of course made king of Egypt by the Alexandrians who did not trust Ptolemy VI any longer.
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It appears they are lying to each other, both trying to gain an advantage.

 

[DavidPT]

From my thread.......study on Daniel 11 & 12. https://www.christianforums.com/threads/daniel-11-12-historically-explained-step-by-step.8049184/

27 And both of these kings' hearts shall be to do mischief, and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper: for yet the end shall be at the time appointed.

Watching Antiochus Epiphanes operate must have been enthralling back in the day. He pretended to support Ptolemy VI his blood kin, and he pretended to have his best interest in mind, but the truth is he was pitting him against his own brother Ptolemy VII the whole time. Ptolemy VII was of course made king of Egypt by the Alexandrians who did not trust Ptolemy VI any longer.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It appears they are lying to each other, both trying to gain an advantage.

The problem with this though, one of these 2 kings is the very same person that comes to their end in verse 45. I can't see verse 45 meaning Antiochus Epiphanes.

 

[brinny]

This is an intriguing book. (A treasure).

Meditating on it.

 

[DavidPT]

From my thread.......study on Daniel 11 & 12. https://www.christianforums.com/threads/daniel-11-12-historically-explained-step-by-step.8049184/

27 And both of these kings' hearts shall be to do mischief, and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper: for yet the end shall be at the time appointed.

Watching Antiochus Epiphanes operate must have been enthralling back in the day. He pretended to support Ptolemy VI his blood kin, and he pretended to have his best interest in mind, but the truth is he was pitting him against his own brother Ptolemy VII the whole time. Ptolemy VII was of course made king of Egypt by the Alexandrians who did not trust Ptolemy VI any longer.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It appears they are lying to each other, both trying to gain an advantage.

Daniel 11:20 Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in anger, nor in battle.


This person isn't even a major player in Daniel 11, yet the text bothers to mention him, and not only that, it also bothers to tell us what becomes of him.

Daniel 11:21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.


This person, OTOH, is a major player in Daniel 11, but if your interpretation is correct, the texts don't even bother to tell us what becomes of him eventually. He just mysteriously disappears from the narrative per your interpretation. If verse 45 is not what becomes of him, then point out in Daniel 11 the verse and or verses that tell us what becomes of him eventually?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The problem with this though, one of these 2 kings is the very same person that comes to their end in verse 45. I can't see verse 45 meaning Antiochus Epiphanes.

 

[Revealing Times]

The problem with this though, one of these 2 kings is the very same person that comes to their end in verse 45. I can't see verse 45 meaning Antiochus Epiphanes.

That right, because verses 21-32 is about Antiochus Epiphans, verses 33-35 is the TRANSITION period between Antiochus and this last King that is born in Greece, who is the Anti-Christ, who becomes the Beast once he conquers Jerusalem and the MANY (Mediterranean Sea Region). This man is first seen in verses 36, and he is brought to his end in verse 36, he is the Anti-Christ.

Daniel 11:20 Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in anger, nor in battle.

This person isn't even a major player in Daniel 11, yet the text bothers to mention him, and not only that, it also bothers to tell us what becomes of him.

20 Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in anger, nor in battle.

Antiochus III's son Seleucus IV became king and had to raise taxes because Rome was forcing him to have to pay for all his fathers wars, he was soon poisoned to death it seems.

Daniel 11:21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.


This person, OTOH, is a major player in Daniel 11, but if your interpretation is correct, the texts don't even bother to tell us what becomes of him eventually. He just mysteriously disappears from the narrative per your interpretation. If verse 45 is not what becomes of him, then point out in Daniel 11 the verse and or verses that tell us what becomes of him eventually?

There are a few reasons why his death is not mentioned in detail. Firstly, he left to go to the Eastern front and died there, so his death had nothing to do with Israel per se, his exploitation's did have something do do with Israel, of course. Thus we are told in verse 32 that Israel beats back this challenge, so what happened to Antiochus is not important, he is a TYPE of Anti-Christ and since the Beast/Anti-Christ will be defeated WITHOUT HAND and Antiochus died via a disease or WITHOUT HAND, it all matches up pretty good as per the ARCH TYPE.

32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

We are given the coming Anti-Christ/Beast in TYPE from verses 21-32, the in verses 33-35 we are told of a span of 2100-2200 years until the Anti-Christ comes forth.

Dan. 11:33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days. 34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help (Holy Spirit): but many shall cleave to them with flatteries (2/3 of the Jews perish at the end, and many never know God for over 2000 years). 35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white (Paul, Steven, Peter etc.), even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

Its YET for a TIME APPOINTED as in NOT AT Antiochus Epphanes time !! Then we get that TIME APPOINTED from verses 36-45.

This man in verses 36-45 is an Atheist, Antiochus sacrificed unto Zeus. This man will not serve the gods of his fathers, thus hes from Greece, of Turkish descent (Assyrian) and will come to power in the E.U. so hes probably of a Muslim family, but he will be an Atheist himself.

Anyone that sees verses 21-45 as the SAME MAN be it Antiochus or the Anti-Christ is wrong. It is two different men, one the ARCH TYPE and the other the REAL DEAL.