Dad Hagin's position on OSAS

[God_Owned]

I like you duds mate!

 

[KingZzub]

who?

 

[MalcolmD]

Jesus taught Brother Hagin about how what must occur for a Christian to lose their salvation. I read about it in his book "I Believe in Visions", still one of the best Christian books I've ever read. The teaching was very clear to me and I'd never even heard of OSAS up to that point.

On another note, I wonder if it's a good idea to quote from His books without permission from the folks at Rhema for copyright reasons. Intellectual property rights is an issue I would like to see upheld in discussions on what I consider the most valuble teachings in the Christian realm today. Thank you,

Malcolm

 

[KingZzub]

You can quote sections of books - fairly lengthy sections as well as long as you are not profitting from them.

Well, you can in the UK.

Cheers,
|ZZ|

 

[MalcolmD]

You can quote sections of books - fairly lengthy sections as well as long as you are not profitting from them...
|ZZ|

Thanks for the info!

 

[KingZzub]

what you cannot do is quote a complete chapter...

that is not allowed.

This is UK law

(I am a school teacher, I know these things)

 

[MalcolmD]

That's good to know. In North America I believe the rule is "insignificant portions" which probably doesn't mean anything unless money is involved. The Rhema people love to see the gospel preached and as long as the authors are credited it would seem to accomplish that along with word-of-mouth advertising (how appropriate!)

 

[KingZzub]

Cannot imagine Hagin complaining.

Copeland used to preach his sermons virtually word for word.

Cheers,
|ZZ|

 

[God_Owned]

who?

duds is slang for clothes, outfit, etc. kind og like you word lug means ear.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Jesus taught Brother Hagin about how what must occur for a Christian to lose their salvation. I read about it in his book "I Believe in Visions", still one of the best Christian books I've ever read. The teaching was very clear to me and I'd never even heard of OSAS up to that point.

On another note, I wonder if it's a good idea to quote from His books without permission from the folks at Rhema for copyright reasons. Intellectual property rights is an issue I would like to see upheld in discussions on what I consider the most valuble teachings in the Christian realm today. Thank you,

Malcolm

Copyright law allows for fair use... you can quote portions of anything as long as you provide a reference..

 

[KingZzub]

There you go then.

Cheers,
|ZZ|

 

[BroGinder]

God CANNOT sin. If we have unrepented sin in our lives we can not enter the kingdom of heaven. Its in his book (The Holy Bible).

Matt 7:21
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
KJV

Matt 13:41-42
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
KJV

Matt 21:43
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
KJV

We do indeed sin even as Christians, we can however and should repent those sins daily or even immediatley.

Luke 9:62
62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.
KJV

Meaning, do not go back to your old life. Do not do what you once did. You are a new creature and can not do what you did or you will lose what you have.

You must also consider those that sin intentionally, or habitually may have not been saved to begin with.

The word Christian means Christ Like. We should govern ourselves accordingly.

Rev 3:11
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
KJV

 

[KingZzub]

I sin habitually.

I am 3 stone overweight. Have been for 3 years.

Am I damned to hell by your theology?

 

[PastorJoey]

I sin habitually.

I am 3 stone overweight. Have been for 3 years.

Am I damned to hell by your theology?

Thats one way to burn fat. I couldnt resist.

 

[J4Jesus]

That's good to know. In North America I believe the rule is "insignificant portions" which probably doesn't mean anything unless money is involved. The Rhema people love to see the gospel preached and as long as the authors are credited it would seem to accomplish that along with word-of-mouth advertising (how appropriate!)

Those who have gone to Rhema know he likes them to preach his sermons and doesnt care if they are word for word. If thats what he is teaching ,which he believes is correct, that's what they are suppose to preach , to get the Word out any way they can.
I dont mind people quoting what I've preached. Whats funny is sometimes they may wonder about what I say and not comment. Then later they dont know I heard them quoting me word for word! If its the Word why not?

 

[KingZzub]

rofl

 

[J4Jesus]

Dids are you saying this:

Those that are not born of God, cannot help but sin.
Those that are born of God can sin, but also have the ability to not sin.

????

I would say this is very true. In fact I have often said myself the unbeliever cannot help but sin because that is the nature he was born with. But when he is born again, the Christian has the power to not sin, altho he can sin if he chooses to.

 

[KingZzub]

you could say it like this:

sin is not natural for a born again person

 

[SavedByGrace3]

God CANNOT sin...

Some of our friends in the main forum would say that this is a denial of His sovereignty. They might say that "God does not sin because He chooses not to sin, not necessarily because He did not have the ability to commit sin. They would insist that God in fact CAN sin if He wants to.

This is an example of the effect of "mere theism" on modern Christian theology. To the mere theist, the ultimate and driving truth about God is His absolute sovereignty. It is more important than holiness. It is more important than righteousness. It is more important than keeping His word. God is in fact so sovereign that He can make promises that He does not have to keep. Sovereignty demands this. He cannot be bound by anything... even His own nature and integrity.

 

[PastorJoey]

Some of our friends in the main forum would say that this is a denial of His sovereignty. They might say that "God does not sin because He chooses not to sin, not necessarily because He did not have the ability to commit sin. They would insist that God in fact CAN sin if He wants to.

This is an example of the effect of "mere theism" on modern Christian theology. To the mere theist, the ultimate and driving truth about God is His absolute sovereignty. It is more important than holiness. It is more important than righteousness. It is more important than keeping His word. God is in fact so sovereign that He can make promises that He does not have to keep. Sovereignty demands this. He cannot be bound by anything... even His own nature and integrity.

Great Post Dids.
Another way of explaining our position is that:

God, in His Sovereignty, Sovereignly chose to give man absolute free will. And since He, in His "Sovereign right" chose for it to be thus, His Sovereignty therefore remains intact.- PastorJ

Absolute free will was Gods choice for us, not our own.

Calvinists feel that if a person had freewill, rebelled and rejected Christ, then that would infringe upon God's Sovereignty.

However, This is not so. Why? Because God has reserved a day of Judgment for the disobedient, rebellious, murderers, blasphemers, Adulterers, etc...
There day is coming and will not escape His Wrath.

Until the sinner finds a loop hole in Gods Word concerning the Final judgment then His Sovereignty remains.