Custody issues

fields316_2000 said:

i wont even sugar coat this for this sight.
janman , if you were in front of me i'd break your jaw

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Why do you seem to despise practical advice? You remind me of my father who defended my mother's honor for up to 13 years after she cheated on and divorced him. Chivalry is wasted on such women as they don't value it. They understand and respect bad boys. Are you strong enough to be her man?

Autumnleaf said:

Why do you seem to despise practical advice? You remind me of my father who defended my mother's honor for up to 13 years after she cheated on and divorced him. Chivalry is wasted on such women as they don't value it. They understand and respect bad boys. Are you strong enough to be her man?

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That and if he broke my jaw he would loose all custody because he would have an assult and battery record, trust me that looks REALLY bad when you are trying to even get unsupervised visitation, I have a freind who is going through that and he will be until his kids are 18.

You have to know how to play the game if you want to stay on the field, if the rules change you change your tactics. You learn how to read people in real life so that you dont get your jaw broken. Smart people always win.

janman345 said:

That and if he broke my jaw he would loose all custody because he would have an assult and battery record, trust me that looks REALLY bad when you are trying to even get unsupervised visitation, I have a freind who is going through that and he will be until his kids are 18.

You have to know how to play the game if you want to stay on the field, if the rules change you change your tactics. You learn how to read people in real life so that you dont get your jaw broken. Smart people always win.

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So true. I think some men expect God to miracle them out of such situations or if they just follow the rules they are told things will work out.

I've seen a few come in and out of here over the years. They come trusting God and praying for things to work out. You tell them to play for keeps and fight dirty to win. They take a holier than thou attitude as they get raped and raked over the coals by the system. Then they go away.

Autumnleaf said:

So true. I think some men expect God to miracle them out of such situations or if they just follow the rules they are told things will work out.

I've seen a few come in and out of here over the years. They come trusting God and praying for things to work out. You tell them to play for keeps and fight dirty to win. They take a holier than thou attitude as they get raped and raked over the coals by the system. Then they go away.

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Yep thats true, but if he wants to bust people in the jaw and keep paying out then he might as well start eating at the soup kitchen now to get used to it so that its not such a shock when it becomes a requirement to survive.

Autumnleaf said:

So true. I think some men expect God to miracle them out of such situations or if they just follow the rules they are told things will work out.

I've seen a few come in and out of here over the years. They come trusting God and praying for things to work out. You tell them to play for keeps and fight dirty to win. They take a holier than thou attitude as they get raped and raked over the coals by the system. Then they go away.

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janman345 said:

Yep thats true, but if he wants to bust people in the jaw and keep paying out then he might as well start eating at the soup kitchen now to get used to it so that its not such a shock when it becomes a requirement to survive.

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You two should really take this outside.

God is in control. Pray continually.

In my area there are self help offices that will help you fill out all the necessary paperwork. What I have seen going on the last few months in one courtroom is that the judge tries to ensure that the kids are seeing both parents regularly unless there is a drug issue. If the kids are in an unhealthy environment, I would ask for an evaluation to be done.

eatenbylocusts said:

You two should really take this outside.

God is in control. Pray continually.

In my area there are self help offices that will help you fill out all the necessary paperwork. What I have seen going on the last few months in one courtroom is that the judge tries to ensure that the kids are seeing both parents regularly unless there is a drug issue. If the kids are in an unhealthy environment, I would ask for an evaluation to be done.

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No, judges make the standard every other weekend visitation order. In most family courts judges are out right open that if your ex-wife won't agree to it you will never get more than EOW and maybe a weeknight dinner stop by.

fields316_2000 said:

judges are lazy and generally issue the results like weekends and dinner first and drag it out to keep the families in 'the system' . your tax dollars pay them to prolong things. business as usual and continually having them have something to do. your feelings = their check

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Maybe you should punch them in the jaw lol. See how far that gets you.

Fields, ignore janman. He has absolutely no compassion whatsoever for anyone, and is only interested in rim jobs from his wife. His advice means nothing.

I wish I had advice to give you, but I don't. It's obvious your boys love you and want you around. Hold onto that, and make the most of the time you have with them. I'll be praying for you.

It really has nothing to do with being lazy. Per Title IV-D states receive federal money for every dollar they collect in child support. If judges started issuing a lot of custody arrangements that don't allow for maximum child support awards the state's budget would suffer and child support workers would lose their jobs. Family court judges have an interest in keeping the divorce industry fully funded. It also creates the potential down the line for parents that are sick of being EOW babysitters to file custody motions, which means money for lawyers, social workers, custody evaluators, ect.

But the sociology is pretty clear cut: EOW parents (fathers in 84% of cases in the US, but it plays out the same for noncustodial mothers) become the "Disneyland parent." A shift in role from parent to weekend entertainer, and gradually the relationship erodes.

Created2Write said:

Fields, ignore janman. He has absolutely no compassion whatsoever for anyone, and is only interested in rim jobs from his wife. His advice means nothing.

I wish I had advice to give you, but I don't. It's obvious your boys love you and want you around. Hold onto that, and make the most of the time you have with them. I'll be praying for you.

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Seems you dont really have any advice either, did you just feel the need to berate me, if you noticed in a long thread with me I conceded in the end but for some reason you feel the need to continue on.

Also I dont think my post to fields was misplaced since he basicly threatened physical violence and had that been anywhere but an internet forum where no one takes it serously it would be a crime so he should probably learn to act like an adult and not a bar brawler, and it was for lagit advice. If he does not like the advice then he can simply dismiss it but it was lagit and will get him out of paying. You dont get to have your cake and eat it too, you either keep your money and never see your kids again or you see your kids every other weekend and have so much money extorted you are boarder line homeless, thats the way game is played, if you dont like it thats really to bad, yea I agree its sucks but there is not much you can do about it.

fields316_2000 said:

out of everything you posted..as crazy and nutty as it sounds...you are actually right. im going to go broke to fight this case..whats the point in having money and christmas gifts if the kids you are buying them for are so defeated and torn from not seeing me? i'd rather have quality time with them than a few bucks in my pocket..

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Then I guess your only hope is to hope you can convince their mom to lower payments.

fields316_2000 said:

out of everything you posted..as crazy and nutty as it sounds...you are actually right. im going to go broke to fight this case..whats the point in having money and christmas gifts if the kids you are buying them for are so defeated and torn from not seeing me? i'd rather have quality time with them than a few bucks in my pocket..

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Any good attorney is going to tell you the same thing: if your ex-wife won't agree to anymore more, you can spend all the money you have, but the best you're going to do is EOW.

ProAntiRevolution said:

It really has nothing to do with being lazy. Per Title IV-D states receive federal money for every dollar they collect in child support. If judges started issuing a lot of custody arrangements that don't allow for maximum child support awards the state's budget would suffer and child support workers would lose their jobs. Family court judges have an interest in keeping the divorce industry fully funded. It also creates the potential down the line for parents that are sick of being EOW babysitters to file custody motions, which means money for lawyers, social workers, custody evaluators, ect.

But the sociology is pretty clear cut: EOW parents (fathers in 84% of cases in the US, but it plays out the same for noncustodial mothers) become the "Disneyland parent." A shift in role from parent to weekend entertainer, and gradually the relationship erodes.

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That explains so much. I had no idea the state receives fed money for child support dollars collected. So much for blind justice.

Fields...would your soon tb ex agree to your having the kids more IF you paid the max child support? That way, she would get the $$ and you would get more visitation?

mkgal1 said:

That explains so much. I had no idea the state receives fed money for child support dollars collected. So much for blind justice.

Fields...would your soon tb ex agree to your having the kids more IF you paid the max child support? That way, she would get the $$ and you would get more visitation?

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Thats a good idea so that he will be so broke that he can pick up the kids and walk to a bus to go to his ghetto appartment or low income housing or homeless shelter and make his kids a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and walk around the block a few times before it gets dark.

I swear do people think that you can just shell out 30-50% of your net income and just go make up the difference (for things like car maintence, house maintence, insurnace, mortgage, possibly student loans, gas, food, etc, etc) off of a magic money tree.

I have to get my transmission fixed this week and that will be 1500$ and thats becuase I know someone, if I had 30-50% of my income just disappear I would have to park my truck at my parents and sell my condo. Maybe MK gal has a counterfieting press so giving up 50% of her income is not a big deal.

I guess you could counterfiet money or casino coins but thats like a 20k start up. If you get caught its white collar federal, usually 5 years and because its white collar you are probably not with hardened criminals. Plus you have to be an artist to recreate the templates. Its like people on here dont live in reality, maybe their brain is plugged into the matrix or soemthing.

janman345 said:

Thats a good idea so that he will be so broke that he can pick up the kids and walk to a bus to go to his ghetto appartment or low income housing or homeless shelter and make his kids a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and walk around the block a few times before it gets dark.

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This is exactly the reason I can not stand you. You focus on the material aspect of things, instead of on the things that actually MATTER. For the love of all that is good, Fields is willing to sacrifice money TO BE WITH HIS KIDS! That is a GOOD thing! While it sickens me to think of how much money he will have to pay, I think it is VERY honorable of him to put his sons above the money.

janman345 said:

I swear do people think that you can just shell out 30-50% of your net income and just go make up the difference (for things like car maintence, house maintence, insurnace, mortgage, possibly student loans, gas, food, etc, etc) off of a magic money tree.

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Um, no. It's called getting a second job. People do it all the time. Sometimes life requires us to make sacrifices for the people/things we love/need the most. If he is willing to make sacrifices to see his kids, I am sure he will do whatever he can to make his time with them special. And, on top of that, they will see just how much he IS sacrificing, and they will grow to love him more for it. A strong relationship with his kids is more important than an expensive condo and a yacht.

janman345 said:

I have to get my transmission fixed this week and that will be 1500$ and thats becuase I know someone, if I had 30-50% of my income just disappear I would have to park my truck at my parents and sell my condo. Maybe MK gal has a counterfieting press so giving up 50% of her income is not a big deal.

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Do they not have buses where you live? There isn't only two choices. Riding a bus can be much cheaper than driving a vehicle to work everyday. My mom saves over two hundred dollars a month on gas, because she takes the bus to work. And, just so you know, that two hundred dollars was the difference between them(my parents) keeping their house, and losing it. She liked driving to work because she could sleep in. But she'd rather have her house, so she gets up earlier and takes the bus. If a vehicle doesn't work, you can pay to ride the bus. If that's too expensive, and you live close enough, you can ride a bike. Or walk. Or carpool.

There are so many more options than you portray.

janman345 said:

I guess you could counterfiet money or casino coins but thats like a 20k start up. If you get caught its white collar federal, usually 5 years and because its white collar you are probably not with hardened criminals. Plus you have to be an artist to recreate the templates. Its like people on here dont live in reality, maybe their brain is plugged into the matrix or soemthing.

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It's like you live in your own world. You conveniently leave out other possibilities that are very good options to work around money. If he does go to court, and if he does spend a lot of money, it will suck. But his kids are WORTH IT. Like I said, he can get a second job if he needs to, or he can ride the bus if he needs to, or a bike, or walk(depending on how far away his work is). There's also different groups that offer food at discount prices, there's this coupon thing starting that helps you save hundreds on groceries every week. You make it sound like he's screwed, and has no options, when he actually DOES have options. They just require some work, effort and a willingness to sacrifice a little.

If he's willing to do that for his kids, I say more power to him. Not a lot of people would do that these days, and it's very honorable of him to put his kids above himself.

janman345 said:

Seems you dont really have any advice either,

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No, I don't. I said I didn't. But it's better than advising him to give up his kids and move to another country.

janman345 said:

did you just feel the need to berate me,

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No.

janman345 said:

if you noticed in a long thread with me I conceded in the end but for some reason you feel the need to continue on.

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This is a different thread, for one. And, secondly, I disagree with you. I have a right to voice my opinion, last I checked.

janman345 said:

Also I dont think my post to fields was misplaced since he basicly threatened physical violence and had that been anywhere but an internet forum where no one takes it serously it would be a crime so he should probably learn to act like an adult and not a bar brawler,

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You were advising him to leave his kids, and move to another country. I don't blame him for his reaction at all.

janman345 said:

and it was for lagit advice. If he does not like the advice then he can simply dismiss it but it was lagit and will get him out of paying.

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Maybe to you it was legitimate. But he loves his children, and he wants to be in their lives. THEY want him in their lives. I can not fathom how the advice you gave seemed appropriate to you, in light of how much he wants to be in their lives, and vice versa. And, you''re talking about "saving him money", yet moving out of the U.S. is very expensive, as well as some of the advice you gave(by your own admission) was ILLEGAL. To me, that means it's no longer "legit".

janman345 said:

You dont get to have your cake and eat it too, you either keep your money and never see your kids again or you see your kids every other weekend and have so much money extorted you are boarder line homeless,

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OR, you can choose to not be lazy, get a second job, find cheaper transportation to work if need be, use coupons when buying groceries and household items, maybe move to a smaller appartment, whatever. There are more than just two options, even though you don't seem to acknowledge them.

janman345 said:

thats the way game is played, if you dont like it thats really to bad, yea I agree its sucks but there is not much you can do about it.

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Actually, there's a lot you can do about it. You can man up, decide what's most important to you, and fight for it. If his kids are important to him, and he wants to fight for them, more power to him. That is very honorable of him, especially with how much he will spend in fees. It really bites how much it will cost him, but he DOES have other options, outside of the advice you gave.

Created2Write said:

No, I don't. I said I didn't. But it's better than advising him to give up his kids and move to another country.



No.



This is a different thread, for one. And, secondly, I disagree with you. I have a right to voice my opinion, last I checked.



You were advising him to leave his kids, and move to another country. I don't blame him for his reaction at all.



Maybe to you it was legitimate. But he loves his children, and he wants to be in their lives. THEY want him in their lives. I can not fathom how the advice you gave seemed appropriate to you, in light of how much he wants to be in their lives, and vice versa. And, you''re talking about "saving him money", yet moving out of the U.S. is very expensive, as well as some of the advice you gave(by your own admission) was ILLEGAL. To me, that means it's no longer "legit".



OR, you can choose to not be lazy, get a second job, find cheaper transportation to work if need be, use coupons when buying groceries and household items, maybe move to a smaller appartment, whatever. There are more than just two options, even though you don't seem to acknowledge them.



Actually, there's a lot you can do about it. You can man up, decide what's most important to you, and fight for it. If his kids are important to him, and he wants to fight for them, more power to him. That is very honorable of him, especially with how much he will spend in fees. It really bites how much it will cost him, but he DOES have other options, outside of the advice you gave.

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Since your entire argument of your post hinges on a second job lets consider he works 8-5 now if he got a second job they would have work around his day job (assuming his day job allows him to have a second job, I had to sign a contract stating I would not have a second job) but lets assume he can, so he would work from what 6 to 9 and maybe on the weekends .... so when is he going to visit his kids? Also once you take that second job child support will also begin garnishing 50% of that income as well so you are not that much further ahead and now you have no time to visit with your kids and your stress levels will be through the roof you will probably not be alive long enough to watch your kids walk down the isle. Unless you are suggesting working under the table but that is technically illegal so that would not be "lagit". You seem to like to talk in generalities but dont take into acount the real life version of what is going on. I had to rely on bus and all that when I was in college and that was the worse night mare of my life, the stress levels from that life style were so great I would have been dead by 40. I would go through great lengths to keep my 4x4 to do what I want when I want even if its staying home I dont HAVE to stay home, its all about piece of mind.

Also moving out of the country is not that expensive if you have a work contact, you maybe have to buy a passport, as long as she has no idea where you went or what nation or company then she is SOL. Its not as hard as you think to leave the nation I have had 3 job offers to leave the country but did not take them (as I am not in this guys situation), the US economy is crap but the middle east is booming comparitivly.

He has indicated he does not want to do that so his choices are really simple he just takes it up the rear to be a disneyland parent (as another poster put it) although I dont know how disneyland it will be existing on 50% of your net income, he can get a second job if he wants so he can see his kids even less and die prematurely, I dont think its honorable to finance an ex that is no longer putting out, if she were concerned with the best interests of the kid she would do a 50/50 custody with no child support that way they could both maintain a decent residence and ammenities for the kid to benifit from rather than him financing her lifestyle or her choice to be un/under employed. If she cant find a job and relys on child support to get by and he has a job she should not have custody as she is not fit to be a parent and he should get custody, her poverty is not his problem only his kid, but unfortunatly the court makes it the mans problem.

janman345 said:

Since your entire argument of your post hinges on a second job lets consider he works 8-5

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Okay. I'll play along.

janman345 said:

now if he got a second job they would have work around his day job (assuming his day job allows him to have a second job, I had to sign a contract stating I would not have a second job) but lets assume he can,

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Good point. Some jobs don't allow for a second job. So that's where the OTHER options he has would come into play. Again, that's why you gather ALL of your options.

janman345 said:

so he would work from what 6 to 9 and maybe on the weekends .... so when is he going to visit his kids?

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I said a second job was an OPTION. That could mean part time, temporary, on call, etc. It doesn't mean he has to have a fixed schedule. Some places ALSO allow for you to set your own schedule, so it's not like he would NEVER see his kids if he had to get a second job. And, if this was not plausible, then there ARE other options he could go with.[/quote]

janman345 said:

Also once you take that second job child support will also begin garnishing 50% of that income as well

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Percentages vary by state.

janman345 said:

so you are not that much further ahead and now you have no time to visit with your kids and your stress levels will be through the roof you will probably not be alive long enough to watch your kids walk down the isle.

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This is an ASSUMPTION. Not fact. You talk as if everything is exactly as you say, when it isn't. I was in a full time job that allowed me to pick the hours I wanted every week, and I was new to the job. I had a part time job that allotted certain days off every week. There are employers who will work with you on your schedule.

Also, if a second job isn't feasible, find another option.

janman345 said:

Unless you are suggesting working under the table but that is technically illegal so that would not be "lagit".

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Funny. You suggested "working under the table" to him in one of your responses.

janman345 said:

You seem to like to talk in generalities but dont take into acount the real life version of what is going on.

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You talk as though everything is exactly as you say, when there is a much bigger picture that involves more options than a father being either homeless, or never seeing his kids.

janman345 said:

I had to rely on bus and all that when I was in college and that was the worse night mare of my life, the stress levels from that life style were so great I would have been dead by 40.

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I doubt the sincerity of this statement. I really do. My mom has been riding the bus for years, and when given the choice and opportunity to go back to her own vehicle(meaning she could easily afford to drive herself to work), she refused. She loves riding the bus, and we live near a big city. Everyone else I know who's ridden the bus loves it, and the times I've ridden the bus, I've loved it.

And, even if it was true, there's always a bike. No gas, barely any maintenance, virtually no cost whatsoever.

janman345 said:

I would go through great lengths to keep my 4x4 to do what I want when I want even if its staying home I dont HAVE to stay home, its all about piece of mind.

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I said drive to work. I didn't say get rid of the vehicle. Sheesh.

janman345 said:

Also moving out of the country is not that expensive if you have a work contact, you maybe have to buy a passport, as long as she has no idea where you went or what nation or company then she is SOL. Its not as hard as you think to leave the nation I have had 3 job offers to leave the country but did not take them (as I am not in this guys situation), the US economy is crap but the middle east is booming comparitivly.

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Fine. Where are you moving? Canada: sure, that might not be as expensive. The America dollar is higher than theirs. Coming from Florida(which I'm assuming is the furthest state from Canada) wouldn't be as expensive as moving to say, France. Mexico: yes, I can see that being cheaper. The American dollar is like, ten times higher than the Peso. Coming from Maine(which I'll assume is the furthest state from Mexico) would also not be as expensive as moving to someplace in Europe. However, the crime rate in Mexico is terrible. Europe: very expensive. The American dollar is worth less than the Euro, plus you'd have to either sell of your belongings(like furniture, vehicle, etc.) and buy new ones when you arrive, or pay to have those shipped over 8,000 miles, depending on where you live in the U.S. So, actually, moving out of the country may NOT necessarily equal more money, even with a job.

janman345 said:

He has indicated he does not want to do that so his choices are really simple he just takes it up the rear to be a disneyland parent (as another poster put it)

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Assumption.

janman345 said:

although I dont know how disneyland it will be existing on 50% of your net income,

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Another assumption.

janman345 said:

he can get a second job if he wants so he can see his kids even less and die prematurely,

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Yet another assumption.

janman345 said:

I dont think its honorable to finance an ex that is no longer putting out,

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SHE left HIM. The honor isn't in financing HER, it's about wanting to be a father to his kids. I'm not referring to the child support there, either. I mean in his time with them, wanting to be near them, wanting to be apart of their lives. Or are you seriously suggesting he dump his boys and forget about them, and find another women to make more babies with?

janman345 said:

if she were concerned with the best interests of the kid she would do a 50/50 custody with no child support that way they could both maintain a decent residence and ammenities for the kid to benifit from rather than him financing her lifestyle or her choice to be un/under employed.

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I don't have any idea what this means.

janman345 said:

If she cant find a job and relys on child support to get by and he has a job she should not have custody as she is not fit to be a parent and he should get custody,

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Since when did we start talking about HER? I'M talking about the DAD.

janman345 said:

her poverty is not his problem only his kid, but unfortunatly the court makes it the mans problem.

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Again, I'm not talking about the wife. I'm talking about the dad.

The point is this: he doesn't WANT to leave the country, because HE LOVES HIS SONS AND WANTS TO BE APART OF THEIR LIVES. That is what is honorable. Is he going to pay a lot in child support? Most likely, and it's WRONG that he should pay as much as the courts will make him pay. However, that does not mean he only has two options. He has quite a few options that WILL help him financially, as well as relationally with his sons. Your narrow minded view is not the only option out there.