Cursing our enemies? (imprecatory psalms)

[AudioArtist]

Recently, I set out to go through the Psalms again. I was hoping for an inspiring journey - but it seems there are a good many more psalms where David (or whoever wrote the particular psalm) calls for severe punishments against his enemies and/or the wicked than I used to notice. Reading them soon shifted into a fairly disturbing journey. Of all the imprecatory psalms, Psalm 109 is probably the most extreme:

1 My God, whom I praise,
do not remain silent,
2 for people who are wicked and deceitful
have opened their mouths against me;
they have spoken against me with lying tongues.
3 With words of hatred they surround me;
they attack me without cause.
4 In return for my friendship they accuse me,
but I am a man of prayer.
5 They repay me evil for good,
and hatred for my friendship.

6 Appoint someone evil to oppose my enemy;
let an accuser stand at his right hand.
7 When he is tried, let him be found guilty,
and may his prayers condemn him.
8 May his days be few;
may another take his place of leadership.
9 May his children be fatherless
and his wife a widow.
10 May his children be wandering beggars;
may they be driven from their ruined homes.
11 May a creditor seize all he has;
may strangers plunder the fruits of his labor.
12 May no one extend kindness to him
or take pity on his fatherless children.
13 May his descendants be cut off,
their names blotted out from the next generation.
14 May the iniquity of his fathers be remembered before the LORD;
may the sin of his mother never be blotted out.
15 May their sins always remain before the LORD,
that he may blot out their name from the earth.

16 For he never thought of doing a kindness,
but hounded to death the poor
and the needy and the brokenhearted.
17 He loved to pronounce a curse—
may it come back on him.
He found no pleasure in blessing—
may it be far from him.
18 He wore cursing as his garment;
it entered into his body like water,
into his bones like oil.
19 May it be like a cloak wrapped about him,
like a belt tied forever around him.
20 May this be the LORD’s payment to my accusers,
to those who speak evil of me.

21 But you, Sovereign LORD,
help me for your name’s sake;
out of the goodness of your love, deliver me.
22 For I am poor and needy,
and my heart is wounded within me.
23 I fade away like an evening shadow;
I am shaken off like a locust.
24 My knees give way from fasting;
my body is thin and gaunt.
25 I am an object of scorn to my accusers;
when they see me, they shake their heads.

26 Help me, LORD my God;
save me according to your unfailing love.
27 Let them know that it is your hand,
that you, LORD, have done it.
28 While they curse, may you bless;
may those who attack me be put to shame,
but may your servant rejoice.
29 May my accusers be clothed with disgrace
and wrapped in shame as in a cloak.

30 With my mouth I will greatly extol the LORD;
in the great throng of worshipers I will praise him.
31 For he stands at the right hand of the needy,
to save their lives from those who would condemn them.

I know that the imprecatory psalms were not merely the passionate pleas of one man (spiritually or carnally motivated), but were rather a pattern for the worship of Israel. Can you imagine us coming together to worship and singing a psalm like Psalm 109? And should we ever pray like this? I certainly don't feel comfortable with it in my spirit, but this manner of praying is set out in the Bible - quite a few times, and not just in the Psalms.

How do you feel about the many moments like these in the psalms? How do these inspired scriptures relate to us Christians?

 

[lismore]

An interesting question!

Subscribing!

 

[Faulty]

How do you feel about worshipping a God who promises eternal torment to His enemies? They are eventually all destroyed in this life and the next. Why does it feel bad to think on such things if we know God is just?

 

[GloryBe!]

I regularly read Psalms. In fact, it's probably my most sought book of the Bible. There are many many passages that reflect these sentiments. It's proof that the writer was human, but also that God allowed it in the texts to survive for us to read. Because of these and many other examples, I have always believed that most present day Christians (truly practicing )are WAY nicer than God. These like the ones who vehemently beat you with the Bible to not judge, not be angry, not be upset when harm comes your way, etc...
Would love to see a discussion on this...

Glory be!

 

[jimfish]

When considering OT passages of war/vengeance/etc., we must apply a degree of dispensationalism.

During the Old Covenant, one of God's and the church's main needs was to PRESERVE A MATERIAL Israel (for e.g. the fulfilling of prophecies, Jesus' blood line, etc.). OT Hebrews could not be allowed to be perfected in agape' love and meekness, for example, because their nation had enemies needing to be stood against, destroyed, etc. Under the New Covenant, with now a SPIRITUAL Israel composed of believers of many nations, there's no longer that Old Cov. need, so "Jesus ascended on high, gave Gifts unto men...," and we can now be, and are commanded to be, perfected and walking in God's Love (including of course forgiveness), Meekness, Gentleness, etc. (Gal. 5:21-22) "...against SUCH there is no law."

 

[geetrue]

Who can understand a God that sent Jonah to warn Neviviah to repent and they heard God through the messager of Jonah and they did repent.

Who can understand a God that did this and then destroyed the entire city just fifty years later.

New testament spells Jesus and what Jesus thinks through his disciples.

Love one another
Forgive one another
Hold no grudges against one another

Love your neighbor even as you love yourself sums up the entire commandment in one word ... love!

Love your enemy
Give your enemy food and drink

Turn your cheek

Pray for those in office

replace the fear of the old testament Psalms with the faith of the new testament promise of eternal life.

A few suggestions along the way can't hurt

 

[paul1149]

We have a more full revelation of the nature of God than did (do) the Hebrews. Jesus Christ IS the full revelation of God, and He tells us to love our enemies.

The way to understand the imprecatories in light of that is to spiritualize them by directing them against evil, not against people. Thus we can fight the evil, but remain innocent in heart with regard to people who are caught up in it as we do so, just as we have been commanded.

That's the way to love our enemies: even as we resist their evil we wish the best for them, and give final judgment to God alone.

 

[New_Wineskin]

I know that the imprecatory psalms were not merely the passionate pleas of one man (spiritually or carnally motivated), but were rather a pattern for the worship of Israel. Can you imagine us coming together to worship and singing a psalm like Psalm 109? And should we ever pray like this? I certainly don't feel comfortable with it in my spirit, but this manner of praying is set out in the Bible - quite a few times, and not just in the Psalms.

How do you feel about the many moments like these in the psalms? How do these inspired scriptures relate to us Christians?

I see them as examples for a means of therapy and letting off steam - that is all . I don't care if they are a part of the Scriptures . I wouldn't ask or demand the Lord to do things against others because of what they do to me . He taught me to do other things as being allowable .

 

[lismore]

How do these inspired scriptures relate to us Christians?

There is a tendency in Christianity today to over-emphasise the love of God in giving people the grace to repent and do the right thing while ignoring the justice of God: fearful retribtution if they do not repent.

There is a danger in basing your theology only on certain selected passages, it's good but only partial.

 

[jimfish]

...
The way to understand the imprecatories in light of that is to spiritualize them by directing them against evil, not against people. Thus we can fight the evil, but remain innocent in heart with regard to people who are caught up in it as we do so, just as we have been commanded.

That's the way to love our enemies: even as we resist their evil we wish the best for them, and give final judgment to God alone.

True/agreed. But the way we fight evil IS by loving people. "[God's Agape'] Love NEVER fails."

Somehow the modern-day church has relegated its fight against evil to casting out demons (who in most cases have a God-given right to be where they are; done mainly by Jesus in His time so as to bear witness to Jesus' divinity and also make seen the unseen spiritual world), binding the enemy (incorrectly based upon a Scripture given to the Apostles for their formation and organization of the physical church), pleading the Blood (where is that ever done in the Bible??) and whatever other melodramatic and Scripturally unfounded practices.

But God has already won the victory, the enemy/devil has already been defeated, "the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal" but are simply 2b the manifestation of the Fruits of the Spirit.

(BTW, I really loved the "remain innocent in heart" phrase and application.)

 

[jimfish]

There is a tendency in Christianity today to over-emphasise the love of God in giving people the grace to repent and do the right thing while ignoring the justice of God....

Sadly so true. Even worse, relegating God to the refrigerator magnet and bumper stickers declaring "Jesus loves you."

Equally if not even more far-reaching in damage, is to take the Scriptures regarding Love and confining them to, interpreting them as, God's Love towards us RATHER THAN what was intended to speak of what should be our Love (i.e., God's Love working in and through us) towards God and others. 1Jn4:16-18 is a good example.

 

[AudioArtist]

Thank you for the replies - many of them were very, very helpful. I think 'spiritualising' psalms like these for use today is a good idea; after all, we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, and we may as well make use of such scriptures.

As for God's justice... Yes, I understand He is a just God and that He hates sin and has fierce anger towards the wicked (though also not desiring of their death and merciful to all who turn to Him), but that wasn't my question. I am specifically asking about imprecatory prayers from Old Testament saints and what we Christians can/should do with them today.

I suppose another related question (which I unsuccessfully tried to imply in the OP) could be: did God approve of David's prayers against his enemies? Or did He merely tolerate them, in the same way He tolerated divorce - as a concession for people's hard hearted wickedness back then? I mean, they were included in Scripture, but then I can't tally them with Jesus' commands for the people of God.

 

[simonpeter]

David's prayers were against wicked people, so I am not sure God would have disapproved of that.

 

[lismore]

David talked about the coming judgement. Jesus talked about the coming judgement.

 

[Biblicist]

Much has certainly changed from the days of the Old Covenant to the New. Even though the Father would not tolerate wickedness within his people, including the Judges, kings and Prophets of Israel; it is rather apparent that he understood their humanity and after all, unlike us they did not have the Spirit of God within them.

The Father even tolerated bigamy in those days and he only did so because he understood the weakness of the human heart but of course today he will not tolerate this type of behaviour in his people; to the point where he says that if someone divorces for the wrong reasons and remarries that this is sin.

The weakness of the Law with its inability to change the heart of man was evidenced by the Father sending his Son to die for us; we should not be all that surprised when the people of God (Israel) voice their desire for God to punish and even destroy those who they deem are there enemies, even when such prayer is directed toward their fellow Israelites.
When Jesus spoke to Israel during his ministry on earth (which was still under the Old Covenant) he raised the benchmark by telling them:

Luke 6 27 “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you. 32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.
​

Paul also reminds the Romans and Corinthians (and us) that we are not to curse anyone which was a common problem not only within society but something that was also being carried over into the church.

Rom 12:14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.

1 Co 4:12 We work hard with our own hands. When we are cursed, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure it;
​

Over the past 10 years there has been some interesting developments with the very puzzling text of 1Co 12:3 where Bruce Winters has discussed the problem of cursing not only within the Roman empire but more particularly within the Corinthian church. Without going into too much detail, besides showing how the text should read “Jesus curse” or “Jesus curse someone for me” he provided an extensive amount of archaeological information which has revealed how even Christians (and church goers) were apparently placing cursed on their enemies.

1 Co 12:2,3 You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
​

So to summarise, even though it may have been a legitimate exercise under the Old Covenant to call on God to curse our enemies, it is something that is strictly forbidden under the New Covenant.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Recently, I set out to go through the Psalms again. I was hoping for an inspiring journey - but it seems there are a good many more psalms where David (or whoever wrote the particular psalm) calls for severe punishments against his enemies and/or the wicked than I used to notice. Reading them soon shifted into a fairly disturbing journey. Of all the imprecatory psalms, Psalm 109 is probably the most extreme:

I know that the imprecatory psalms were not merely the passionate pleas of one man (spiritually or carnally motivated), but were rather a pattern for the worship of Israel. Can you imagine us coming together to worship and singing a psalm like Psalm 109? And should we ever pray like this? I certainly don't feel comfortable with it in my spirit, but this manner of praying is set out in the Bible - quite a few times, and not just in the Psalms.

How do you feel about the many moments like these in the psalms? How do these inspired scriptures relate to us Christians?

Just because a person in the Bible did it does not mean that we are to copy. Just because it's recorded in scripture does not mean that the person was correct in doing it. Now if God told the person to do something then that is different, however, in scripture no where does God tell David to pray in such a manner.

The scriptures show humans being human and how those who trusted and relied on God got through it, where they fell short, where God provided despite some of their bad requests. Yes, David did a lot of talking with God about his enemies. David did a lot of complaining....and at the end, usually ended by saying, in paraphrase "but You God are the One I trust and rely on and I know that YOU will take care of me".

That is where we are to emulate David, not in his whining and complaining but in his praise and trust in his God.

 

[AudioArtist]

Thank you for those answers, Biblicist and SpiritPsalmist. Very helpful responses.

 

[TasManOfGod]

True/agreed. But the way we fight evil IS by loving people. "[God's Agape'] Love NEVER fails."

Somehow the modern-day church has relegated its fight against evil to casting out demons (who in most cases have a God-given right to be where they are; done mainly by Jesus in His time so as to bear witness to Jesus' divinity and also make seen the unseen spiritual world), binding the enemy (incorrectly based upon a Scripture given to the Apostles for their formation and organization of the physical church), pleading the Blood (where is that ever done in the Bible??) and whatever other melodramatic and Scripturally unfounded practices.

But God has already won the victory, the enemy/devil has already been defeated, "the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal" but are simply 2b the manifestation of the Fruits of the Spirit.

(BTW, I really loved the "remain innocent in heart" phrase and application.)

There is much error in your understanding of the purpose of the Church
Firstly Paul meant it when he said we (the believer) wrestle not against flesh and blood (each other) but against principalities and powers (demons)
It is true that Jesus overcame the works of the enemy and but it is also true that He has given us the power and authority to maintain that victory. The measuse of how the believer has taken up his cross is how well he is doing in the battle.
God bless

 

[jimfish]

There is much error in your understanding of the purpose of the Church
.....

If I had a dollar for every time I heard that....

No doubt the vast majority would agree with you, Tas, granted.

Thank you for reading and considering my post. Sincerely.

In His Love for you, jim

 

[bluemarkus]

proverbs says it is not appropriate to commend wicked people for their wickedness. if you always "hush, hush" everything then wicked men will gain power over you. but the curse that is not appropriate will come back to your own house. so i would think 2 or 3 times before speaking bad of a person, that number has worked well for me so far.