Current Events

[sealacamp]

I see a lot of this happening all around me:

They will act religious, but they will reject the power that could make them godly. Stay away from people like that!

And after some of the conversations that have here I see this effect running wide open and that many who believe they are following the Lord are also following the world at every turn. They are in denial and are falling away from the Lord while keeping the outward form, just as was prophesied. How can you get through to those that are so entrenched in denial that they refuse to even look at themselves realistically and use Gods word as their mirror?

I almost forgot, we were warned to stay away from people like that, yet these same people say we should embrace everyone. It can't be both ways can it now?

Sealacamp

 

[nChrist]

Amen! I thought immediately of this portion of Scripture:

Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

This portion of Scripture speaks volumes for the days that we currently live in. And, I must say that many self-professing Christians have allowed various media to systematically desensitize themselves to the point that they are conforming themselves to this world instead of God's Word.

1 Timothy 6:8-12 KJV And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. 9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. 10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. 11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. 12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

 

[sealacamp]

I agree. Seems that if we truly follow the Lord and try to do what is right we become shunned, labeled negatively, and generally hated by those that claim to be enlightened and filled with love. The true nature of love requires goodness, and mercy true enough but it also calls for discipline and that is hardly ever pleasant. It seems to me that people, even Gods people are so busy trying to make everything so nice and easy that the hard work of truly following Christ gets kicked to the side. That is why you hear so many people saying "Judge not that ye be not judged". What they are really saying is "Don't make me look at right and wrong I just want every thing to be easy and pleasant." They don't want to have to be in conflict with anyone or any thing but what they fail to realize is that when you are on that sort of path you are in conflict with God almighty. That is exactly what Jesus and all the prophets kept talking about, "You can not serve God and the world too" When we "get along with everyone" then we can't get along with God. So we have to make a choice, go along with the world to get along with the world and be Gods enemy or go along with God and be the worlds enemy. That is what the scriptures tell us and that is just the way it is. Far too many "Christians" these days won't take a stand so they are really going away from God and don't even realize it.

Sealacamp

 

[nChrist]

John 15:18-19 KJV If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. 19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

 

[Gentlemantech48]

Here's what I Timothy has to say about current events:

TheNewsAccordingToTimothy

 

[Tim Myers]

"....so entrenched in denial that they refuse to even look at themselves realistically...."

Could you give some examples of what you are referring to here??

 

[Gentlemantech48]

"....so entrenched in denial that they refuse to even look at themselves realistically...."

Could you give some examples of what you are referring to here??

"People will be lovers of themselves" - This covers a wide ground but in politics it has to do with those politicians who are more interested in getting re-elected than in saving this country from a world-wide, economical disaster.
"lovers of money" - This has always been the root of all evil but each day we see more headlines involving all sorts of awful crimes comitted over money and the love of it. In politics it more important for many politicians to keep bringing in money from special interest groups than it is to save this nation from disaster.
"boastful" - Men of power stand up and give great speeches about how wonderful a job they have done while digging a grave for America.
"proud" - A good speaker can make it look like the most awful direction to take the nation is the patriotic way to take it.
"abusive" - Men of power who abuse their elected position to further their personal agenda rather than seeks God's wisdom and further an agenda that restores the nation.
"disobedient to their parents" - This could be in politics but is more so in 90% of the headlines we see. Young people who have rebelled against their parents and take a road of destruction.
"ungrateful" - It seems no one is satisfied. God has blessed us but so many do not see that and want more and more and more because they think they deserve it.
"unholy" - This nation is on a fast slide to destruction because it has rejected Our God and taken up an unholy alliance with the evil one. It will be saved only by the presence of and for the sake of the elect of God.

 

[Gentlemantech48]

"....so entrenched in denial that they refuse to even look at themselves realistically...."

Could you give some examples of what you are referring to here??

Oops. Sorry. I think I answered the question for Tim Myers.

 

[Tim Myers]

When have those various characteristics not described human beings in every last generation since the beginning of human beings, Gentlemantech48??.........

 

[Gentlemantech48]

When have those various characteristics not described human beings in every last generation since the beginning of human beings, Gentlemantech48??.........

They definitely have described a portion of every generation from the beginning but I believe the Lord was saying a day would come when these things were so prevalent that the majority of that generation would fit the mold and that it came down to the few who are God's elect versus the great majority who are totally sold out to all that is described in I Timothy. I believe we are reaching the days of Noah when it was hard to find anyone who truly loved God and not themselves.

 

[sealacamp]

When have those various characteristics not described human beings in every last generation since the beginning of human beings, Gentlemantech48??.........

People have always been that way to a greater or lesser degree. However when it is Gods people that fit the description and yet they deny that there is anything wrong can there be any doubt that there is a serious problem here?

Many "Christians" say truth is relative, and it is not. It is said by these same people that morality is relative depending on the life style that a person wants to live, that is absolutely false as well. This same group states that Gods word is errant and needs to be amended because it was written by men and it is old and out dated, this is incorrect also. These people claim to be Christs yet reject what He tells us is true, thus they throw away the real power of Christ and His ability to transform us into what we should be by rejecting key points that lay the foundation for us to grow in Christ. There are many specific examples, some are in this forum area and have been beaten to death only to be disregarded by the group in question.

Outsiders, people who are not saved, are expected to believe these things and live an errant life with no intention of turning since they don't even realize there is a problem. But Christs people are not to keep living any way they want and then tell God that He is wrong for pointing out how they are veering away from Him. All of this reminds me of the way that Israel did these very things in the time of the Judges and even afterward. If you have studied the bible you will know that this has happened before and when it did God punished those people. How can those that are called His live any way they like, especially in a way that is contrary to what He tells us we should live, and not expect to be punished as well? For the the worst thing is how many people that don't know the truth are being misled and when they actually hear the truth they just can't believe that is really the way it should be.

But you will know when you are on the right track with the Lord, magnum posted the right verse to give you an indication of that. When we do what is right in the Lords sight, when we speak His truth we will meet opposition and even hatred from some. So if we are following Christ down the true path that is His expect to be labeled a hater, bigot, racist, homophobe, etc. Because that is the only way that people can refute the truth, by belittling the person who brings truth and in their minds anything that is said become irrelevant. Check out Isiah, Jeremiah, or Ezekiel if you want to very relevant examples of this.

Sealacamp

 

[Tim Myers]

In the verse quoted by 357Magnum, which you refer to, Christ can only be talking about the "world" of Orthodox Judaism which existed in His day.....

"If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you"

The only ones who hated Jesus before they hated His disciples were the Jewish leaders. And which "world" did Christ choose His disciples out of except the Jewish world?

 

[sealacamp]

In the verse quoted by 357Magnum, which you refer to, Christ can only be talking about the "world" of Orthodox Judaism which existed in His day.....

"If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you"

The only ones who hated Jesus before they hated His disciples were the Jewish leaders. And which "world" did Christ choose His disciples out of except the Jewish world?

So you think that only applies to the Jewish leaders? I guess Christ didn't realize that there was/is a whole world around Him, especially since He is the creator of all things. I just imagine how you come to that narrow invalid conclusion. The world is just that, the whole planet not just one little part of it. Don't believe for one second that Christ didn't know the difference.

Sealacamp

 

[Gentlemantech48]

So you think that only applies to the Jewish leaders? I guess Christ didn't realize that there was/is a whole world around Him, especially since He is the creator of all things. I just imagine how you come to that narrow invalid conclusion. The world is just that, the whole planet not just one little part of it. Don't believe for one second that Christ didn't know the difference.

Sealacamp

This is one strange theory. Of course Jesus was talking about the whole world and his children all over the world have been hated for His sake.

 

[Tim Myers]

"Don't believe for one second that Christ didn't know the difference."

I never stated or even implied that Christ did not know the difference....

 

[Tim Myers]

"This is one strange theory"

What is it that you find so "strange" about it?

 

[sealacamp]

I never stated or even implied that Christ did not know the difference

Then please explain this:

And which "world" did Christ choose His disciples out of except the Jewish world?

That is an implication of a narrow incomplete view of the world which you used to minimize the impact of the scripture that Magnum posted, it is right there above you for all to see. And clearly I am not the only one that sees it this way.

Sealacamp

 

[Tim Myers]

"That is an implication of a narrow incomplete view of the world which you used to minimize the impact of the scripture that Magnum posted, it is right there above you for all to see. And clearly I am not the only one that sees it this way."

Frankly, I would contend it is you who has the narrow incomplete view......

Jesus was a Jew, speaking to Jewish disciples, in Judea, about those who had hated Him in Judea and how the same people in Judea would hate His Jewish disciples in the same way.

This is what happens when you take one verse out of context.....

Read on in chapter 15----verses 21 through 25---and if you have any understanding, you will see that I have been correct in what I have been saying here....

 

[Cris413]

While I certainly agree that there are certain Scriptures that pertain to the Jewish Nation alone…such as Roman’s 9-11...and Revelation 4-22...which pertains to Israel and all unbelievers...but that's another topic.

God chose for Himself a people through which to teach all peoples…not to mention the heavenly beings as well. A people through which He would reveal Himself as well as reveal the depravity of our sin nature and rebellion toward God.

However, all Scripture can be applied to Gentiles as well as we learn from the example of Israel. We as Gentiles, have been grafted in…rightful heirs by adoption.

Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches.
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,
Rom 11:18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
Rom 11:19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in."
Rom 11:20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.

Eph 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
Eph 1:5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
Eph 1:6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


And regarding these particular verses:

Joh 15:18 "If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you.
Joh 15:19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.



Jesus is speaking not only to the Jews in His presence…or regarding the world as it was known during His earthly ministry…but to all who are in Christ Jesus….His disciples.

Note Jesus praying in the Garden of Gethsemane.

Jesus prays for His Disciples…then prays for all Believers:

Joh 17:14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
Joh 17:15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.
Joh 17:16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
Joh 17:17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
Joh 17:18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
Joh 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.



Joh 17:20 "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
Joh 17:21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
Joh 17:22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
Joh 17:23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.


I’m hard pressed to consider this Scripture is not speaking of ALL Believers…especially considering the eternal nature of God...who knew each of us before the foundations even.

Anyone who is in Christ Jesus, will be hated by the world…because we are not of the world…just as our Lord is not of the world....and the world loves it’s own.

Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.

 

[sealacamp]

"That is an implication of a narrow incomplete view of the world which you used to minimize the impact of the scripture that Magnum posted, it is right there above you for all to see. And clearly I am not the only one that sees it this way."

Frankly, I would contend it is you who has the narrow incomplete view......

Jesus was a Jew, speaking to Jewish disciples, in Judea, about those who had hated Him in Judea and how the same people in Judea would hate His Jewish disciples in the same way.

This is what happens when you take one verse out of context.....

Read on in chapter 15----verses 21 through 25---and if you have any understanding, you will see that I have been correct in what I have been saying here....

I disagree and your implication stands as you stated it furthermore no one said anything about a narrow view but you.

Jesus is speaking not only to the Jews in His presence…or regarding the world as it was known during His earthly ministry…but to all who are in Christ Jesus….His disciples.

Amen! That is what we are saying.

Sealacamp