Current Atheist Seeking Understanding and Christ

anewseeker

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Hi there,

This is my first post on these forums and I have a question I hope you can help me with.

I would currently describe myself as either an atheist or at best unsure/agnostic. However, I have found myself drawn to explore the Christian faith recently. I don't know why - something just compels me. This same something, call it an intuition or whatever, is telling me to explore 'reformed baptist' theology and seek out a reformed baptist church.

Obviously, it is important to get saved, and I want to work this out as quickly as possible, and give myself over to whatever religion I have to if I become convinced of it's truth.

I have a major question about reformed baptist churches that I can't seem to find an answer to anywhere on the internet - do they believe that I need to be baptised in order to be saved? Or is faith in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour enough?

Thanks in advance,
 

jomarc

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Admitting that you are a sinner, believing that Jesus died on the cross and shed His blood to save you from your sins....and confessing this truth....and feeling that God is genuinely wanting you to commit your life to Him is all that is necessary.

Baptism is a outward sign of all of the above things that have happened to you. The old life has died and has been buried. And you have been resurrected to a new life in Christ. Christ asks us to do it (to be baptized), but it is to symbolize all of that in the first paragraph that brings salvation to our souls.

It is obvious that God is working on you from all that you are saying. Count yourself blessed. Seek out that church.

Some Baptist churches are reformed, and some are not. Both are biblically based. They differ on a few points based on interpretation of some passages of scripture. Just make sure that you choose a church that is deep into the Bible...and one that places emphasis on the Great Commission (Matthew 28:19-10).

And most important of all, keep in mind that God saves us....Man cannot save anyone...not even himself.
 
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Skala

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Obviously, it is important to get saved, and I want to work this out as quickly as possible, and give myself over to whatever religion I have to if I become convinced of it's truth.

I am grateful for your compulsion to look into spiritual things bro. But in good conscience I cannot go without correcting a seemingly wrong mindset. Becoming a believer (ie, being saved) is not a mere intellectual exercise. It is not mere intellectual assent to some certain facts that causes your salvation. You can even intellectually affirm that God exists and that Jesus is the Savior and even that Jesus died for sins, and rose again, and still remain unsaved.

Why? Because as I said, salvation is a matter of the heart, not just the mind. Even the demons believe in everything I listed above, but as you can guess, they are not saved. They are not redeemed. They are not reconciled to God.

What makes the difference between intellectual assent and actual saving faith is personal trust in Christ.

A saved person abandons their own self-righteousness, recognizing that he/she is not good enough to stand before God and be reconciled to God on their own terms. Instead, one must humbly accept that there is nothing they, themselves can do or contribute to his/her own salvation. We realize that we are helpless and worthless and must ride on the coattail of someone else, namely Jesus Christ. Jesus is sinless, and he stands ready to stand as a substitute for sinners, in God's presence. Thus it is by trusting in Him and His finished work for us when he died and rose again that we are "connected" to Christ and then reconciled to God again.

By nature we are sinful and guilty of hell for our crimes (sins) against God. God, being just, must punish sin, lest he be unjust (which is evil). If God didn't punish sin, that would be injustice, so God must punish sin. However, out of pure mercy on God's part (he wasn't obligated to do this, and could have let us all go to hell), he provided a way to escape his wrath and be reconciled to Him again, declaring us as "just" before his court. Jesus is that substitute. This is what makes Christianity unique from other religions. All other religions will tell you that to be made right with God, you have to do X, Y, Z. You have to do this, you have to do that. But Christianity declares the opposite: that there is literally nothing you, yourself can do. You must ride the coattail of someone else. And God himself provided that way of escape, out of mercy. No other religion has a god that provides a way of salvation. They leave it all up to you.

So when the Bible tells us to "believe in Jesus", it isn't talking about mere blind faith that he exists, it isn't talking about mere intellectual assent to some facts. It's not the same as saying that you "believe in santa clause". Rather, Biblical "belief" is personal trust in Him and abandoning your own worthiness as grounds to be reconciled to God.

I hope I made that clear. But first, in order to abandon your own righteousness and embrace someone elses', you have to be convinced that you are even a sinner and guilty before God in the first place. If you aren't even convinced that you are a sinner and under God's wrath, you would have no reason to seek a rescue and fly to the savior. A person who isn't in a sinking ship is not scrambling for the lifeboat.

So, do you acknowledge that you are a sinner? Because Christ only saves sinners, not innocent people. Innocent people don't need to be saved or reconciled to God.

I have a major question about reformed baptist churches that I can't seem to find an answer to anywhere on the internet - do they believe that I need to be baptised in order to be saved? Or is faith in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour enough?

As far as I know, all baptists believe that faith alone is the grounds for our justification (that includes reformed baptists). Justification is the technical term that people usually mean by the term 'saved'. Justification is a legal term which is exactly what it sounds like: by nature we are unjust and justice is not satisfied before God's court, similar to a criminal who has not received justice for his crimes yet. To be justified means to be made right again before the court of God's law, and thus justice is satisfied. The bible argues that faith alone is grounds for our justification over and over in the book of Romans. Faith alone, not anything we do, including baptism.

All baptists believe that baptism is an outward sign of what has happened inwardly. Our old sinful self died when Christ died, and we rose again as a new creature, when Christ rose again.

Anyone who says that faith alone is not good enough for, or that baptism is mandatory, is not a baptist (such as the above poster), therefore they should not be answering on the baptist forums. Also, I question whether they are protestant at all. All protestants believe in justification by faith alone.
 
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David Pratt

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To Anewseeker
[- do they believe that I need to be baptised in order to be saved?]


Grace be unto you Anewseeker,

After being exposed to the truth, that is a definite, "Yes".

If not, then that person is taking a chance.


[Or is faith in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour enough?]


Having faith and "love" is enough.


Note: Having faith & love in the our Lord Jesus Christ, the son of the Father, is primary. If you have that, everything else will naturally fall into place without hesitation & doubt.


Best example I can think of: If you love your parents, you would go to the super-market for them when they're too tired to go themselves.

They don't have to ask you: It's just natural love that will cause you to do it without thought or hesitation.
 
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JuJube

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Roman 10: 9,10
V.9 If you confess with your mouth the LORD JESUS, and believe in your heart that God has raised HIM from the dead, you will be saved.
v.10 For with the heart man believes unto rightousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
People try to make everything so hard. Jesus said to have the faith of a child.
Cry out to the Lord, and He will lead you....He did me.
 
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miamited

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hi again anewseeker,

Well, you have hit on one of the most hotly debated topics of 'christians'. There are a few of them.

You'll read many here who will tell you it's all about faith, it's only faith, you don't need anything but faith.

Great! The question is what does God call 'faith'? When God called Abraham He asked him to 'prove' his faith. James tells us that 'faith' without works is dead faith.

As we read through the new covenant Scriptures we find that Jesus said, (the above poster gave you Paul's instructions and if we follow Paul as he instructed people in the faith we'll see that He did practice baptism of new believers), but Jesus said, "Only he who believes and is baptized will be saved". These are accounted as words right out of the Savior's mouth.

Peter, when asked by a crowd of people how they could be saved specifically told them to repent and be baptized everyone of you for the remission of sin. When Phillip shared the gospel with the Eunich, the very first thing he asked to do was to be baptized. John the Baptist, he was a baptist, got his very name because he was baptizing people into the faith. Jesus was baptized. Now, I'll listen to all the arguments against there being any claim that baptism is not an integral part of our ultimate salvation, but of all the arguments of men, I'm going to put the words of Jesus and the first apostles in higher standing.

You are free to do what you feel is right in your heart and quite honestly you need to read Jesus' command regarding baptism very carefully. It is not baptism that bring about anyone's ultimate salvation. It is baptism coupled with faith. You see, Jesus' coupled baptism with faith in this way: Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. So, let me be clear. Don't walk up out of the water and declare, "Now I will be saved!" The baptism is a one time event, the life of faith is a life of perseverence and must be lived until the end.

That's my take and understanding of the Scriptures, however, you are free to go with whatever seems right to you.

The first step for you however is not being baptized but understanding the truth of who and what you are before your God and Creator. A sinner! You deserve death, but God has made a way that you can be freed from that penalty. You must agree that God's truth is the truth! You must be born again.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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miamited

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BTW, just something to keep in mind is Jesus' teaching to his disciples about the day of judgment when believers will be saved. He told them:

"Watch out for false prophets.http://www.biblestudytools.com/matthew/7.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-9 They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them.http://www.biblestudytools.com/matthew/7.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-11 Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,'http://www.biblestudytools.com/matthew/7.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-15 will enter the kingdom of heaven,http://www.biblestudytools.com/matthew/7.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-16 but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day,http://www.biblestudytools.com/matthew/7.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-18 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

Read that passage very carefully and study it fully. Understand that Jesus is not talking about people like you who are lost to God. Jesus is talking here about people who lived their life on this earth thinking that they were children of God. They cry out to the Lord how they did great things in his name! These were people who, while living on this earth called themselves 'christians'. But Jesus says that he didn't know them. Why? How? They've performed miracles in his name! They've driven out demons in his name! Surely they glorified God and His Son on this earth. They obviously thought they had some great measure of 'faith'! What is it that separates these people of obvious faith from the ones that Jesus does know?

Again God bless you and if you're truly interested in knowing how you can know God and what His perfect plan is in this realm, feel free to PM me.
In Christ, Ted
 
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americanvet

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I cannot speak about reformed baptist, but I was saved in a Southern Baptist Convention Church and here is what they say about baptism.

Baptism doesn't make you a believer - it shows that you already believe. Baptism does not "save" you, only your faith in Christ does that. Baptism is like a wedding ring - it's the outward symbol of the commitment you make in your heart. "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith... it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast." Ephesians 2:8,9

Source: How to Become a Christian

This link is the main page to the above link: http://www.sbc.net/knowjesus/
 
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anewseeker

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Hi again.

Thanks for all your replies. I appreciate the points made and their efforts to help - Skala's point about my mindset needing to change was particularly pertinent.

I understand that my mindset has to change from being one of how to 'get' salvation and more to one of how to serve Jesus Christ as Lord.

My current SITUATION is this - I am a truth seeker. If the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ is true, I want to accept with all my heart and devote my life to his message - and I would agree that this message does indeed actually take precedence over and above salvation in many ways. However, lets face it, we all want salvation too!

It seems to me a case that one becomes more Christ-like through grace and faith over time. I have recently felt the beginnings of a changing of the heart and more of a warmness to this message in my heart. However, this same message of warmness is also, I feel, telling or compelling me to attend a 'reformed baptist church' for whatever reason.

However, please bear in mind that I am in the UK, was raised a Catholic, and as such my exposure to many of the Baptist and reformed doctrines which proliferate in the US are almost unheard of in many places round here - Europe is an increasingly secular place, so it is difficult to get clear answers on such matters here.

Which leads me to my immediate DILEMMA. I am due to fly in a couple of days, and I have always been very scared of dying in a plane crash. Whilst I can feel the impact of what I believe to be Jesus calling on my heart to come to the truth, I frankly do not want to get on a plane, die, and find that I am facing eternal condemnation for being unbaptized, even though I feel like I am coming to a saving faith.

In short, given the (relative) lack of Baptist churches in this country, it would be basically impossible for me to get baptised before getting on this plane; there would not be enough time. I am now at the point where I am ready to accept Jesus as my Lord and Saviour, and trust in him. My question is whether I should get on the plane, or turn my back on this flight at a cost of thousands of pounds as I will still be unsaved due to lack of baptism. I do not want to get on a plane without the assurance that I am acting in accordance with God's message in my heart.

As I understand it, the baptism would then be a public declaration of this inner change, and I would then get baptised immediately upon my return to the UK.

Skala, I appreciate that you have already clarified that to your knowledge all baptists - including reformed - do not hold to the necessity of baptism for salvation.

I am just checking that this is the mainstream view - do reformed baptists subscribe to salvation by faith alone, with the idea that baptism is an outward sign?

Again,

Many thanks for you all for helping me flesh out my very young understanding of God's Truth.
 
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anewseeker

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PS, Skala, I am aware that I am currently intellectualising a set of propositions, and ultimately I need to give my assent to believe, how this is how I've always been!

It's a part of my ultra-analytical personality. The assent to believe will come crashing down like an avalanche and overwhelm me I am quite sure, once I have fleshed out this crucial point of understanding, then I can move forward. I can feel it in my heart.
 
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Skala

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Bro, I will pray for you. Our Lord is merciful indeed and nobody is out of His reach :)

If you feel like your current worldview struggle is a God-send, it probably is. God saves us each in a different way. All Christians have a different experience of coming to the knowledge of their salvation. Similar to how we have different relationships with our mother as we do our father, God has a different relationship to each of His children.

Anyways, regarding baptists and baptism:

1) Reformed baptists have really good theology. It shouldn't be too hard to find reformed churches there. As the reformation happened on your side of the pond :)

2) All baptists believe that baptism is merely an outward sign of what has already happened inwardly (ie, regeneration and salvation)

As for the question of baptism being mandatory for salvation. Millions of Old Testament saints (ie, people who were saved before Christ was sent into the world) were not baptized. Yet will be in heaven. Anyone who argues that baptism is mandatory for salvation either must believe all OT believers are in hell, or that for some reason, the method of salvation suddenly changed. No, salvation has always been by faith in God's promise of a messiah. Hence "Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness". OT saints and NT saints are saved in the same way: faith in Christ. OT saints just didn't know his name yet, but they trusted that one day God would send a messiah, so they put their trust in God's promise. NT saints are putting their trust in the same messiah, its just that we live after he came, not before. It makes no difference.

Paul not only argues that justification is by faith, but he also argues that it is circumcision of the heart that matters (not the flesh).

Israelites were circumcised, but Paul argues that not all of them are saved, because the only circumcision that matters is the one of the heart.

I leave you with this verse that has helped me greatly:

Rom_5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
 
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guuila

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PS, Skala, I am aware that I am currently intellectualising a set of propositions, and ultimately I need to give my assent to believe, how this is how I've always been!

It's a part of my ultra-analytical personality. The assent to believe will come crashing down like an avalanche and overwhelm me I am quite sure, once I have fleshed out this crucial point of understanding, then I can move forward. I can feel it in my heart.

Hey bro I think Skala pretty much covered the whole gamut so I don't have much to add there. I'm also ultra-analytical (I'm a software engineer) and all I can say is don't make it more complicated than it has to be. Saving faith in Christ really is a child-like faith. Just letting go of control over your life and circumstances and falling into the arms of Christ, trusting him that He is Lord and He knows best, with a willingness to submit to him as a child does to a parent. Jesus said “Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 18:3-4 ESV)

Like Skala pointed out, we are justified by faith. If a person is justified, they are reconciled to God. No longer enemies. It's a done deal from that moment on into eternity. Baptism is NOT required in this sense. Baptism is required in the sense that it's a sign of what has taken place in your heart, and it's simple obedience AFTER YOU ARE ALREADY SAVED. But being baptized does nothing in terms of becoming justified before God. All that is required is belief and trust in what Christ has done to save sinners. The thief on the cross is a great example. He was about to die and knew that he was worthy of hell, and his simple expression of faith was “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” And Jesus said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.” (Luke 23:42-43 ESV)
 
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savedfromdistruction

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Hi there,

This is my first post on these forums and I have a question I hope you can help me with.

I would currently describe myself as either an atheist or at best unsure/agnostic. However, I have found myself drawn to explore the Christian faith recently. I don't know why - something just compels me. This same something, call it an intuition or whatever, is telling me to explore 'reformed baptist' theology and seek out a reformed baptist church.

Obviously, it is important to get saved, and I want to work this out as quickly as possible, and give myself over to whatever religion I have to if I become convinced of it's truth.

I have a major question about reformed baptist churches that I can't seem to find an answer to anywhere on the internet - do they believe that I need to be baptised in order to be saved? Or is faith in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour enough?

Thanks in advance,
They believe faith is enough, but baptism is the first command of a new believer so for a person to refuse the baptism would prove they were not saved.
You also mentioned faith but my guess is that you are not understanding this issue. Biblical Faith is not simply believing a set of facts about Jesus or even knowing they are true while trusting them and saying it. The bible says we must come to repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Repentance is not 50%, 75%, or 99%. It is 100%. The Greek word for repent requires that. It would be a word equal to the words "about face" used in the military. That means a 180 degree turn, and nothing less and that turnng is to God in surrender. The person is in their heart ready to get right with God no matter what it will cost them. It could be called an unconditional surrender because of being broken over sinning against Him and being ready to do what ever it takes to be saved. That is the heart of repentance. Then they are to take that heart/spirit and place is on the Lord Jesus Christ, that means receiving Him as Lord/Master/Saviour and faith is born, and grace is applied unto the new birth/salvation. The evidence that the salvation has taken place is the change in their life.
Here are a couple links that might help understand this better.
http://www.gerald285.com/web_media/TrueChristianityJohnMacArthhur.wma
http://www.gerald285.com/web_media/BirthmarksofaBeliever.32.mp3

I will pray for your understanding and acceptance. Keep in mind that many people want saved to excape eternal hell, but not everyone wants to do what it takes to get saved which is repent. Don't let that happen to you.
 
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Anihilus

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I sent you a PM with the same info in it but I'd like to post it here just in case you don't see it.

Atheist Saved by The Truth of The Sovereign God - YouTube

An Atheist then a Religious Hypocrite, now a Lover of Christ - Testimony - YouTube

I hope these help you.

If you want the answers, I encourage you to pick up a Bible and read the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Hear the words of Jesus...

"Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. "For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened." Matthew 7:7-8

Cry out to God to give you knowledge and to show you who He is, and keep asking, seeking, knocking till He does.

As a last verse for now,

"And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him." Hebrews 11:6
 
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Tnmusicman

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Roman 10: 9,10
V.9 If you confess with your mouth the LORD JESUS, and believe in your heart that God has raised HIM from the dead, you will be saved.
v.10 For with the heart man believes unto rightousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
People try to make everything so hard. Jesus said to have the faith of a child.
Cry out to the Lord, and He will lead you....He did me.

Amen!
 
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Tnmusicman

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The word “baptize” is simply a rendering of the Greek word that meant “immerse.” Christians who professed faith in Christ were immersed in water to symbolize their spiritual death and resurrection in Christ. Reformed Baptists continue to follow this practice today, immersing those who believe the gospel in water as an outward sign that they have been inwardly transformed by the saving power of Christ. You can get on the plane with no worries IF you have accepted Christ as your Savior and made a profession of faith. The bottom line is some doctrines believe that baptism saves you but according to what I've discovered about Reformed Baptists is they do not teach that baptism saves.
 
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phoenixdem

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I attend an Independent Baptist Church, and I'm more of a Reformed Baptist in my beliefs than more liberal Baptist Churches. I don't believe in baptizing infants. My church believes in salvation by faith through the Grace of God and Baptism is a symbol of dying to the old life and rising to the new life, i.e. born again.
 
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