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Danoh

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I ain't no dispensational expert but IMO both Stephen and the thief on the cross were saved by believing the kingdom gospel during the dispensation of law. And a Gentile at that time would still be in the dispensation of human government and the gospel would be his conscience.

Maybe someone more qualified about dispensationalism will also answer this question for you.

Now it is your turn to answer a question. If there has never been but one gospel what is it?

Unfortunately, BAB2 does not even have the gospel for today straight - I mean, he warned me about being in danger of hellfire just a few posts ago.

Meaning, he either once believed he was justified freely by His grace, in which case he still is, but somewhere along the way he fell from an understanding of God's grace to him in His Son, and needs to have this understanding of Christ formed in him all over again - saved but confused.

Or, he never understood that, in which case he is basing either his salvation, or its continued assurance, on his works, and is actually still lost!

Since he just now quoted Galatians to me, perhaps he'll actually heed its one gospel, in contrast to this "another [heteros], which is not another" at all.

Galatians 3:

1. O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2. This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3. Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

1 Corinthians 6:

11. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Galatians 5:

5. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

We who were once without hope have a hope now - we have righteousness - through what the Spirit accomplished the moment we trusted in the Son - He declared us justified in the name of the Lord Jesus.

As for Stephen, note what the Spirit declared through him unto Israel as to their spiritual status before God just before they murdered him - Acts 7:

51. Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
52. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53. Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

In Matthew 12, the Lord had warned them against that very act of disobedience:

30. He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
31. Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

In John 5, He had warned:

43. I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
44. How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
45. Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
47. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

And now, in Acts 7, the Spirit they were warned against resisting was accusing them of not having kept the law, due to the Uncircumcision of their heart and ears.

The Lord would later shed further light on this through the Apostle Paul, Romans 2, where the issue is the same - how things operated under the Law:

17. Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
18. And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;

23. Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24. For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25. For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26. Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his Uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27. And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28. For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

The issue there is how that even the far off Gentiles at times performed the righteousness of the law better than the Jew; who had the Law, and by that, putting the Jew to shame before God.

Note this account of a Gentile, who, like Cornelius, was blessed for obeying the Abrahamic Covenant's "And I will bless them that bless thee," Genesis 12.
Note what the Lord said about him in contrast to those who, having the Law, should have known Who He was - Luke 7:

1. Now when he had ended all his sayings in the audience of the people, he entered into Capernaum.
2. And a certain centurion's servant, who was dear unto him, was sick, and ready to die.
3. And when he heard of Jesus, he sent unto him the elders of the Jews, beseeching him that he would come and heal his servant.
4. And when they came to Jesus, they besought him instantly, saying, That he was worthy for whom he should do this:
5. For he loveth our nation, and he hath built us a synagogue.
6. Then Jesus went with them. And when he was now not far from the house, the centurion sent friends to him, saying unto him, Lord, trouble not thyself: for I am not worthy that thou shouldest enter under my roof:
7. Wherefore neither thought I myself worthy to come unto thee: but say in a word, and my servant shall be healed.
8. For I also am a man set under authority, having under me soldiers, and I say unto one, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
9. When Jesus heard these things, he marvelled at him, and turned him about, and said unto the people that followed him, I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
10. And they that were sent, returning to the house, found the servant whole that had been sick.

People thing these are all just cool Sunday Bible Study stories. They are not - they are meant to serve as a record of important principles at work.

Continuing on... Stephen died a martyr just as the Spirit concluded that nation under sin - not better off than the Gentiles as to this difference between them in God's eyes. They "were nigh," Eph. 2:17; "Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles," Galatians 2:15.

Stephen was saved under that prior economy, when that difference between Jew and Gentile as to their spiritual status before God had been the Oiconomia, House Rule, or Dispensation.

And it had continued for a while as God transitioned things from that to "But now, the righteousness of God without the law is made manifest," Romans 3:

19. Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22. Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

The first passages in Acts 11, reveal that Cornelius was blessed for having blessed Israel; for that was what a God fearing Gentile did, as shown above - and that was then still in effect - Acts 10:

1. There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
2. A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
3. He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.
4. And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.
5. And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter:
6. He lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: he shall tell thee what thou oughtest to do.

What does Peter tell him?

34. Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35. But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Which was exactly what Cornelius did - fearing the God of Israel he had given much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway, v. 2, 4.

Much, much, more could be said on all this...

As for the thief on the Cross, he acknowledged He was Israel's promised King - Luke 23:

42. And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Meaning, John 1:

45. Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
46. And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.
47. Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!
48. Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
49. Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

John 20:

30. And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31. But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Repeatedly throughout Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, the gospel requirement at that point is that they believe He is Israel's prophesied Messiah; Christ, the Son of God - David's rightful heir, thus the faithful every now and then depicted as referring to Him as "Jesus, son of David."

John 12:

12. On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,
13. Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Matthew 21:

4. All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying,
5. Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.
6. And the disciples went, and did as Jesus commanded them,
7. And brought the ass, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon.
8. And a very great multitude spread their garments in the way; others cut down branches from the trees, and strawed them in the way.
9. And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.
 
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Interplanner

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If you've read Riverrat at all, you know he believes in multiple gospels because people in other ages had to have believed something differrent to be saved. Perhaps the problem is that he thinks salvation is something other than justification from sins, I don't know. But I do know he wiggles violently at the thought that Paul was saying Abraham believed on Christ as his righteousness or justification and that Paul was saying so in Gal 3.

Justification deals with the debt of sin, the account. It does not mean a person ceases to sin etc. Christ's righteousness is credited to them, and that is why the Spirit can and does work on those who believe that.
 
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riverrat

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If you've read Riverrat at all, you know he believes in multiple gospels because people in other ages had to have believed something differrent to be saved. Perhaps the problem is that he thinks salvation is something other than justification from sins, I don't know. But I do know he wiggles violently at the thought that Paul was saying Abraham believed on Christ as his righteousness or justification and that Paul was saying so in Gal 3.

Justification deals with the debt of sin, the account. It does not mean a person ceases to sin etc. Christ's righteousness is credited to them, and that is why the Spirit can and does work on those who believe that.
Again IP you have no basic reading skills. You cannot even read the gospel in Gal 3:8.
 
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Danoh

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If you've read Riverrat at all, you know he believes in multiple gospels because people in other ages had to have believed something differrent to be saved. Perhaps the problem is that he thinks salvation is something other than justification from sins, I don't know. But I do know he wiggles violently at the thought that Paul was saying Abraham believed on Christ as his righteousness or justification and that Paul was saying so in Gal 3.

Justification deals with the debt of sin, the account. It does not mean a person ceases to sin etc. Christ's righteousness is credited to them, and that is why the Spirit can and does work on those who believe that.

Do you really think the following is the same gospel of our salvation?

By gospel I mean good news about _____, for it may be good news, but what is its focus in its due season? - Note:

John 1:

45. Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
46. And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.
47. Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!
48. Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
49. Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

John 20:

30. And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31. But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Repeatedly throughout Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, the gospel requirement at that point is that they believe He is Israel's prophesied Messiah; the Christ, the Son of God - David's rightful heir, thus the faithful every now and then depicted as referring to Him as "Jesus, son of David."

Luke 19:

37. And they told him, that Jesus of Nazareth passeth by.
38. And he cried, saying, Jesus, thou son of David, have mercy on me.
39. And they which went before rebuked him, that he should hold his peace: but he cried so much
the more, Thou son of David, have mercy on me.
40. And Jesus stood, and commanded him to be brought unto him: and when he was come near,
he asked him,
41. Saying, What wilt thou that I shall do unto thee? And he said, Lord, that I may receive my
sight.
42. And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.
43. And immediately he received his sight, and followed him, glorifying God: and all the people,
when they saw it, gave praise unto God.

Did you get what that blind Israelites's "salvation" was - was from?

What he was doing was restoring these people back to health unto their coming Priesthood - unless you don't know your Bible on that - their coming Priesthood and The Law's requirement a Priest be whole.

John 12:

12. On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,
13. Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

If I am understanding you correctly, Interplanner, you are reminding me of someone who, when I asked what is the gospel in Mark 1's "repent ye and believe the gospel," replied "that Jesus died for my sin..."

In Mark 1 - at the very beginning of His ministry, some three and a half years before He was crucified.

I even pointed that out and they were still so set in reading later things into earlier ones that simply could not see that, at that point in the unfolding of things the gospel is what He there asserts that it is that "the time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of heaven is at hand; repent ye and believe said good news.

He is in Daniel's time line, is he not, or do you just change that now because it sheds light on this that does not fit your own gospel understanding - it is within Daniel's timeline that He announces "the time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of heaven is at hand: which is right out of Daniel 2:44's "in the days of these kings" [times of the Gentiles politically] "shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever."

What more could you want - the very same angel realted as much to Mary - Luke

26. And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
27. To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28. And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
29. And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
30. And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31. And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33. And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Note the Lord's awareness of where He is at in time , and His assuming they know what He is talking about - Matthew 18:

20. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
21. Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22. Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

I'm with Riverrat on this one - more than one gospel, or rather, "Things That Differ" within"the gospel" as its unfolding progressively unfolded to its final and complete narrative by the time of Paul.
 
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Juelrei

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You make some very good points here, Sister.

It has always been my understanding that this forum was open to all viewpoints.

The one thing that keeps all of us on the correct path here is others who know what is written in God's Word and are willing to challenge anything they view as an aberration.

Unfortunately, our Flesh does not like correction. Sometimes that produces the name-calling.

So, far I have been called...

liar, blind, fool, antiBerean, and now troll.

All of those have been forgiven. I have no choice, based on scripture.



We are to love the Brethren, and the Sisters, even when they become frustrated.


Acceptable methods of people discussing differences is a way for the reader to clearly see the doctrinal differences and how each poster arrives at what they each believe in.

However, one of different beliefs should not I think give their differences for the sole purpose of frustrating the other. As it seems that is all you mention in your post, rather than to mention something more beneficial to result in your discussion, which I think would result if all believers are truly discussing the truth in love.
 
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BABerean2

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I ain't no dispensational expert but IMO both Stephen and the thief on the cross were saved by believing the kingdom gospel during the dispensation of law. And a Gentile at that time would still be in the dispensation of human government and the gospel would be his conscience.

Maybe someone more qualified about dispensationalism will also answer this question for you.

Now it is your turn to answer a question. If there has never been but one gospel what is it?

It is a love story written in Blood.

It starts in Genesis with the seed of the woman who will crush the serpent's head.

It is the Good News woven throughout the fabric of the entire scripture that God loves us who are worthy of death so much that He gave His one and only Son as a sacrifice for our sin.

They did not force Him onto that Cross. He could have prayed to the Father and had 12 legions (There were about 5,000 Roman soldiers in a legion.) of angels to intercede for Him. He laid down on that wooden cross voluntarily and let me nail Him to that cross. I am the one who drove those spikes into His body. He did it because He loved me... a no good, rotten sinner worthy of death.

He did for me, what I could not do for myself.



Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Rom_10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

It is the same Good News that came from all of the Apostles of Christ and has been handed down to us through God's Word, to be shared with the entire world.

It is the thing that we should all agree binds us together into the One Body of Christ, no matter our various views of eschatology. So that no matter how mad or even how many names we call each other on this forum, we are to love each other as He loves us. We are to love our Brethren and the Sisters.

It is the reason that the Father created the universe.


Peace be to you my Brother,

.
 
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riverrat

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It is a love story written in Blood.

It starts in Genesis with the seed of the woman who will crush the serpent's head.

It is the Good News woven throughout the fabric of the entire scripture that God loves us who are worthy of death so much that He gave His one and only Son as a sacrifice for our sin.

They did not force Him onto that Cross. He could have prayed to the Father and had 12 legions (There were about 5,000 Roman soldiers in a legion.) of angels to intercede for Him. He laid down on that wooden cross voluntarily and let me nail Him to that cross. I am the one who drove those spikes into His body. He did it because He loved me... a no good, rotten sinner worthy of death.

He did for me, what I could not do for myself.



Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Rom_10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

It is the same Good News that came from all of the Apostles of Christ and has been handed down to us through God's Word, to be shared with the entire world.

It is the thing that we should all agree binds us together into the One Body of Christ, no matter our various views of eschatology. So that no matter how mad or even how many names we call each other on this forum, we are to love each other as He loves us. We are to love our Brethren and the Sisters.

It is the reason that the Father created the universe.


Peace be to you my Brother,

.
Readers digest version please.
 
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riverrat

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D'ism is the belief that the human organizes the Bible. It comes out pretty confusing. The Gospel is the Bible's own self-organized message. It's beautiful.
Garbage. Show me any definition of D'ism that says what you claim!

I doubt that you even know what the gospel is for the dispensation of grace.

All your education and degrees have been a waste!
 
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ebedmelech

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here's the thing Ebed, with respect that you and others most likely won't agree but that's ok, I'll close with the main point I wanted to attempt to make and G done.

Sweet savor/aroma means what exactly- I've always seen it as enjoyable. Their were offerings that did involve animals that God did enjoy- they had a sweet "savor", savor definition-1. taste (good food or drink) and enjoy it completely. We can use lev 3:5.

Reasons as to why God did become tired of "sacrifices", which in context we see not only idolatry but out of sheer habit(ritual), over abundance with no honest reasons, made up to celebrate anything- Isaiah 1:11-14. Also He(God) never enjoyed certain animal sacrifices I.e. sin. No mentioning at all of sacrifices from a willing loyal servant or for peace/thanksgiving or honest worship.

We agree Jesus was a perfect sacrifice which can get seen as fulfilling all of the "law" sacrifice requirements. Though their are no verses saying one can not still perform an animal sacrifice that is given as thanks specifically - a sacrifice that contained a sweet savor. The verses typically against animal sacrifice are always seen with sin (hebrews)- which was never a "good" sacrifice. As well as sacrificing something to show appreciation was just that - appreciation of what God had provided and given freely.

While the thought of all animal sacrifices to you and those against them might G equal, the lack of mentioning thanksgiving/peace offerings from Loyal and true servants is not scripturally shown as a wrong way of worshipping God- even after our Lords death (These offerings are not for sin-Jesus covered that and a sin offering today is a wrong way to worship.). As well as it isn't written that we are limited to only "x,y,c,a" ways to worship our Lord and God. We are given ways but not limitations (excluding the obvious evil ways to worship).

To make an assertion that a sacrifice of an animal to God for a form of worship and praise is contrary the new covenant we would have to show where it was never enjoyable or specifically asserted it was wrong. While I do understand it's not feasible we all go sacrifice an animal to show thanks to God their are some that that could get seen as feasible- I.e. a poverty area such as Somalia where livestock is precious or other small remote villages.

So my point was Sin animal sacrifices are bad but if one had true motives of an animal sacrifice for thanksgiving/peace it seems it is allowed and still accepted. So comments as animal sacrifices are bad and or violating the new covenant are not entirely correct without specifying which animal sacrifices.

That is somewhat important when one attempts to explain a 3rd temple and the first/primary objection is animal sacrifices are a slap in Gods face.
You're right. I won't agree. The primary reasoning being that in the sacrifices and offering which GOD PRESCRIBED in the ceremonial law, it WAS NOT that God got tired of them...the point would be he got tired of the apostasy of Israel/Judah involved in the offerings.

This is repeated quite a few times in Judah/Israel's continual apostasy. Give Isaiah 1 a careful read because it makes that point very well.

Watch the point here of Ezekiel 20:28:
When I had brought them into the land which I swore to give to them, then they saw every high hill and every leafy tree, and they offered there their sacrifices and there they presented the provocation of their offering. There also they made their soothing aroma and there they poured out their drink offerings.
Notice how God says they are THEIR offerings. God was displeased with their disobedience.
The "sweet savour" to God is when offerings are offered just as he prescribed and offered in true motives and repentance!

Isaiah 1:13:
13 “Bring your worthless offerings no longer, Incense is an abomination to Me. New moon and sabbath, the calling of assemblies—I cannot endure iniquity and the solemn assembly.

Here's more:
Jeremiah 6:20:
“For what purpose does frankincense come to Me from Sheba And the sweet cane from a distant land? Your burnt offerings are not acceptable And your sacrifices are not pleasing to Me.”

We as believers do the same thing in our own disobedience when we try to serve God knowing we are in sin and disobedience. It's just as odious to God as the sacrifices of Israel under the old covenant.
Romans 12:1:
Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.
 
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Rev20

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Garbage. Show me any definition of D'ism that says what you claim!

I doubt that you even know what the gospel is for the dispensation of grace.

All your education and degrees have been a waste!

Where can I find the so-called "Dispensation of Grace" as a fixed block of time, rather than a continuing gift of the Father?

:)
 
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ebedmelech

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Where can I find the so-called "Dispensation of Grace" as a fixed block of time, rather than a continuing gift of the Father?

:)
That's the utter flaw of dispensational theology! It tries to put God in a box of dispensations, and they don't exist. They never face that in scripture that causes that theology to break down either.
 
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riverrat

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That's the utter flaw of dispensational theology! It tries to put God in a box of dispensations, and they don't exist. They never face that in scripture that causes that theology to break down either.
If they don't exist why does Paul refer to a dispensation in Ephesians 3:2?
 
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ebedmelech

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If they don't exist why does Paul refer to a dispensation in Ephesians 3:2?
He doesn't. You (being a dispensationalist), try to make it that because the KJV uses the word dispensation but Paul is referring to the ministry God gave him.

The fact of the matter is the proper translation is "stewardship", but dispensation, even as used there applies to Paul's ministry to the Gentiles. It is not a dispensation of grace. Grace is the ONLY way God saves anyone...from Adam to the very last person God will save.

Everyone is saved by grace...therefore it has ALWAYS been operative by God!
 
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Danoh

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Where can I find the so-called "Dispensation of Grace" as a fixed block of time, rather than a continuing gift of the Father?

:)

Very simple -Romans 3:21's "But now the righteousness of God without the Law is made manifest..."

Romans 6:14's "for ye are not under the Law but under grace.."

Ephesians 2:13's "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ" is Romans 3's "But now the righteousness of God without the Law..."

Thus, Paul's Ephesians 3:2's "dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to youward..."

Such was not the case prior to the Law, Oikonomia, Household Management, or Dispensation.

Romans 11:

5. For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6. But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise,...

It is this "but now...dispensation of the grace of God" that Paul, in Galatians 1:6 refers to as "the grace of Christ."

This is Galatians 3:1's "truth... Jesus Christ...crucified..."

Prior to that its was "the times of" Gentile ignorance - Acts 17:

30. And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31. Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

I swear you guys need a road map to see the Things That Differ as to this Time Line Principle found throughout Scripture that even the lowest of the damned are cognizant of - Matthew 8:

28. And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.
29. And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

And you guys supposedly know the Lord - what is your excuse that you continue to gainsay this Time Line Principle?
 
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riverrat

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He doesn't. You (being a dispensationalist), try to make it that because the KJV uses the word dispensation but Paul is referring to the ministry God gave him.

The fact of the matter is the proper translation is "stewardship", but dispensation, even as used there applies to Paul's ministry to the Gentiles. It is not a dispensation of grace. Grace is the ONLY way God saves anyone...from Adam to the very last person God will save.

Everyone is saved by grace...therefore it has ALWAYS been operative by God!
So let me see if I understand you correctly. The dispensation(stewardship) of grace is Paul's ministry to the Gentiles which has always been operative. I don't think so.
 
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