Cultural Question

[ubermandy]

Hi,
My name is Mandy, and I have been spending a lot of time reading through your posts this week. My husband and I both grew up in "Christian" homes. I attended a Baptist high school, and we both went to Liberty University.

Right now, we are taking classes at Indiana University, so we have had a lot of exposure to different world views. When we have to answer tough questions about why we believe what we believe, our answers seem to be lacking. So, we are on a quest to know the truth for ourselves, and not just regurgitate what we have been taught our entire lives.

We have been perplexed by the lack of consistency by the leadership in our churches. There is too much speculation and misinterpretation. We do not have sufficient knowledge of the original texts to truly know the meaning of some Scriptures.

My questions are:

1. How much of the New and Old Testaments can we view from a "cultural" standpoint. For example, someone may say that women's silence in the church was a cultural issue, and does not apply today.
2. Also, we are having trouble with the verses in Proverbs that say to "beat" your child with a "rod". Some people interpret the meaning of rod as discipline, while others interpret it literally to stick. Can this be viewed as something that was accepted at that time, but is not culturally accepted today? Our non-Christian friends are appauled at the thought of striking a child.
3. Also, how do the other books of the Old Testament compare with the Torah? Do they carry equal weight?


Forgive my inability to express myself clearly. I'm not always a "logical" thinker. I am so interested in the Messianic Judaism from what I have read here. I know I will have more questions. Hopefully, it is okay hang around and digest what you all are studying, thinking and believing.
Thank you for your time,
Mandy

 

[BenTsion]

Shalom Mandy,

1. How much of the New and Old Testaments can we view from a "cultural" standpoint. For example, someone may say that women's silence in the church was a cultural issue, and does not apply today.

Christians often take away from the word of HaShem because they believe it is only 'cultural'. That is quite dangerous. But sometimes certain instructions/decisions might have been given to a particular group for a reason, and might not be meant to be a standard for everyone. I believe Rav. Sha'ul's recommendation was specific to Timothy's congregation, since women from that time were uneducated and thus more suceptible to heresy.

2. Also, we are having trouble with the verses in Proverbs that say to "beat" your child with a "rod". Some people interpret the meaning of rod as discipline, while others interpret it literally to stick. Can this be viewed as something that was accepted at that time, but is not culturally accepted today? Our non-Christian friends are appauled at the thought of striking a child.

Many people develop twisted behavior and personality because their parents refuse to discipline them. I remember when I was a teenager and the kids who got involved with pretty nasty things were exactly those whose parents never set any limits. Physical discipline is important and recommended by scripture, regardless of what your favorite psychologist might say. Scripture is also clear that a parent should not abuse their authority. It is always a matter of balance.

3. Also, how do the other books of the Old Testament compare with the Torah? Do they carry equal weight?

You'll probably get a myriad of answers to such questions. Judaism usually teaches that the Torah was written by the finger of G-d and, as such, most Jews view it as the most important scripture of all. Some Messianic Jews hold to the same view. Others see all scripture as equally inspired. Though I side more with the second view, I must acknowledge that every other book in the Bible seems to be a commentary of the Torah. Yep, you can find it all there in the Torah (the creation, the gospel and even apocalyptic prophecy).

In Messiah,
Ben Tsion

 

[yod]

1. How much of the New and Old Testaments can we view from a "cultural" standpoint. For example, someone may say that women's silence in the church was a cultural issue, and does not apply today.

I'll take a stab this too...

Every single word of the Bible should be understood in the cultural context in which it was given. The hebraic mindset is that God is the center of the universe. The Hellenistic (Greek) mindset is that man is the center of the universe. This way of thinking has always permeated the church.

Messianic teaching is not more enlightened because it is jewish...but because it has the right perspective of the Bible and the God who wrote it.

If you are asking how much of the Bible can be obeyed because of differences in the cultural times, then I would say that every word can be applied to our lives once we understand the purpose of it's original delivery. Does that help at all?

2. Also, we are having trouble with the verses in Proverbs that say to "beat" your child with a "rod". Some people interpret the meaning of rod as discipline, while others interpret it literally to stick. Can this be viewed as something that was accepted at that time, but is not culturally accepted today? Our non-Christian friends are appauled at the thought of striking a child.

The Lord has taken me to the woodshed a few times in my life. I didn't like it at the time but it has produced character and perseverence. Your non-christian friends are not serving the best interests of the child by not spanking them when their behavior warrants it....they are avoiding the unpleasant DUTY of discipline for their own selfish sloth.

The usage of a paddle does not equal abuse! It teaches swift obedience to a child like nothing else can. We are being disobedient to our Father if we don't teach our children to swiftly obey their father.

Not to worry....they shall not surely die.

3. Also, how do the other books of the Old Testament compare with the Torah? Do they carry equal weight?

ALL of the Bible is God breathed and therefore all verses carry equal weight. To take away or add a single verse would bring a curse.

 

[ubermandy]

Thank you for your swift replies. There is much for me to learn, and I feel strongly that G-d has put it in my heart to become a scholar of Him. I am trying to understand the whole law and grace issue, and questioning whether observing the Torah should be for all Gentile believers. Does anyone believe that G-d "calls" certain Gentile believers to observe Torah, but does not call them all?

BTW-I do not have children, so no worries about the discipline right now. I would like to have that all ironed out before the time comes, though!

 

[Henaynei]

Thank you for your swift replies. There is much for me to learn, and I feel strongly that G-d has put it in my heart to become a scholar of Him. I am trying to understand the whole law and grace issue, and questioning whether observing the Torah should be for all Gentile believers. Does anyone believe that G-d "calls" certain Gentile believers to observe Torah, but does not call them all?

BTW-I do not have children, so no worries about the discipline right now. I would like to have that all ironed out before the time comes, though!

I am such a gentile. Called to stand in the commonwealth of Israel alongside the Jew, living "as one" with them, it has been a travel of some 17 years. To the casual observer, I live, act and look like a Jewish woman. The more one learns and incorporates in they lifestyle the more one realiozes how far there is to go.

LOL as to the disipline of children issue - there is no record of any children ever being stoned and since, just as in Yeshua's time, matters of capital punishment are left to the government of the land in which we live there is little chance there ever will be!! LOL

 

[JewishHeart]

Does anyone believe that G-d "calls" certain Gentile believers to observe Torah, but does not call them all?



All Gentiles are called to keep Torah, but what does Torah call for Gentiles? The answer is simple 1.) The Noahcide laws ( Acts 15 and 21) 2.) Those living in Israel or Jewish communities need to identify by participating with Israel in its Torah identity 3.) Those like Ruth who choose to be one with the Jewish people 4.) If you feel called to keep some parts of Torah it is your choice as long as you don't judge others for doing it.

I think somebody mentioned the commonwealth of Israel. What this means is that like Britain was the head nation of a British commonwealth ( India, the Middle East, Australia, etc.) so Israel and Jewish people will be the head of a believing commonwealth. The countries of the commonwealth ( India, Australia, etc) will have their own unique culture and calling, but underneath the rule of the believing Israeli community. God called Israel to be the chief of nations, a priestly people, for an everlasting covenant. Much of the Torah is describing priestly functions that Israel is called to and the nations are not. If one decides to live in Israel or identify with Israel before the millenial reign, of course he takes up the Israeli identity according to the scriptures for the alien who lives in the land; but not the full priestly responsibility. The Torah is the same yesterday, today, and forever; but one must understand the purposes of Torah. One is to show us what sin is and how we fall short, two is to provide the conditions for the priestly Jewish people in their priestly calling, and three is to show us the pattern of heaven and the holiness and character of God, last of all it is to point and prophesy of the Messiah Lamb of God.

As a Gentile believer I am not jealous of the Jewish people's calling, because as a Gentile the Lord has given me a calling to provoke the Jewish people to jealousy ( see Romans 11). I live in Israel so I do identify with the Jewish people according to the law of aliens.

One thing not to do is to become legalistic, to hate the christian church because of its ignorance, and to become a Gentile wannabe Jew ( for other purposes than identification).

Hope this helps.