Crying Statue?

[polishbeast]

Ive always wondered why its so hard to understand that if there is a statue it does not mean the statue is being worshiped.

 

[Stryder06]

No, that's factual Greek, lost by those who keep the traditions of man and ignore the Traditions of God's Holy Church.

Ok, if you say it's factual greek than I'll give you that. Still doesn't make it right, and there is still no support for such actions in the bible.

Then embrace Apostolic Christianity already.

I'm good where I'm at, thanks.

 

[Stryder06]

Ive always wondered why its so hard to understand that if there is a statue it does not mean the statue is being worshiped.

I've always wondered what the need for the statue is, or why pray to a dead person.

We have one mediator who is Christ. We can go directly to God ourselves yet some insist on asking for a dead person to intercede for them...which in it of itself doesn't make much sense since they're dead.

 

[PT Calvinist]

No it can't. Lumps of carved stone cannot cry....

I went out into my garden and beat my carved stone ornaments with a big stick and none of them cried!!!

Rofl !

It doesn't have to. Christianity wasn't sola Scriptura in your sense until Calvin, and even he had no problem with Marian titles.

This is why there are more controversies concerning the CC and other traditionalists. They don't see the God-breathed scripture as head over tradition....

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

That sounds sola scripture to me.

Matt 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

That scripture seems to indicate the dangers of man made doctrines not founded in the scripture.

Amen.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

No, that's factual Greek, lost by those who keep the traditions of man and ignore the Traditions of God's Holy Church.

Then embrace Apostolic Christianity already.

The Greek is kewl............

# 1673 used 2 times....Luke 23:38 and Reve 9:11

Reve 9:11 They are having upon of them, King--the Messenger of the Abyss--a name to him, to Hebrew, Abaddon/abaddwn <3>, and in the Greecian/ellhnikh <1673> name he is having Apollyon/apo-lluwn <623>.

Strong's Number G1673 matches the Greek &#7961;&#955;&#955;&#951;&#957;&#953;&#954;&#8057;&#962; (Hell&#275;nikos), which occurs 2 times in 2 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV

1673. Hellenikos hel-lay-nee-kos' from 1672; Hellenic, i.e. Grecian (in language):--Greek.

 

[PaladinValer]

Ok, if you say it's factual greek than I'll give you that. Still doesn't make it right, and there is still no support for such actions in the bible.

You don't understand.

There is a difference in definition.

Latria signifies what we would call worship today.
Doulia signifies what we would call reverence/honor today.

I doulia fallen soldiers.
I doulia my parents.
I doulia the Saints.

I latria God only.

I've always wondered what the need for the statue is, or why pray to a dead person.

They aren't dead.

We have one mediator who is Christ.

Don't ever pray for another person then for as long as you live.

This is why there are more controversies concerning the CC and other traditionalists. They don't see the God-breathed scripture as head over tradition....

Probably because Tradition is older than Scripture and that Scripture is a part of Tradition.

 

[PT Calvinist]

Probably because Tradition is older than Scripture and that Scripture is a part of Tradition.

That too.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

There is a difference in definition.

Latria signifies what we would call worship today.
Doulia signifies what we would call reverence/honor today.

I doulia fallen soldiers.
I doulia my parents.
I doulia the Saints.

I latria God only.

What about this word?
What is interesting is the Prefix before the root word.
It can either be "pro" or "pros", and which one one uses can determing the meaning of it.....Pretty fascinating

John 4:23 But is coming an hour and now is when the true worshipers/proskunhtai <4353> shall be worshipping/proskunhsousin <4352> (5692) to the Father in Spirit and Truth, for also the Father such is seeking the ones worshipping Him.
24 A spirit the God, and the ones worshipping Him in Spirit and Truth is binding to be worshipping."

Strong's Number G4353 matches the Greek &#960;&#961;&#959;&#963;&#954;&#965;&#957;&#951;&#964;&#8053;&#962; (proskyn&#275;t&#275;s), which occurs 1 time in 1 verse in the Greek concordance of the KJV

4353. proskunetes pros-koo-nay-tace' from 4352; an adorer:--worshipper.
4352. proskuneo pros-koo-neh'-o from 4314 and a probable derivative of 2965 (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master's hand); to fawn or crouch to, i.e. (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore):--worship.

4353. pro-skunetes

4353. pros-kunetes

4253. pro pro a primary preposition; "fore", i.e. in front of, prior (figuratively, superior) to:--above, ago, before, or ever. In the comparative, it retains the same significations.

4314. pros pros a strengthened form of 4253; a preposition of direction; forward to, i.e. toward (with the genitive case, the side of, i.e. pertaining to; with the dative case, by the side of, i.e. near to;

2952. kunarion koo-nar'-ee-on neuter of a presumed derivative of 2965; a puppy:--dog.

4633. skene skay-nay' apparently akin to 4632 and 4639; a tent or cloth hut (literally or figuratively):--habitation, tabernacle.

 

[Stryder06]

You don't understand.

There is a difference in definition.

Latria signifies what we would call worship today.
Doulia signifies what we would call reverence/honor today.

I doulia fallen soldiers.
I doulia my parents.
I doulia the Saints.

I latria God only.

I appreciate the definitions. And as already stated, you may not which is great but other people do. There is a thin line between honor and worship, and sadly alot of people cross it.

They aren't dead.

Are too

Don't ever pray for another person then for as long as you live.

Praying for someone is different. I ask the Lord to be with others and help them etc etc. People pray to the saints in a differnt way. The revere them. This is a problem because they are dead. And aside from that, if they were in heaven, why ask them to pray for you? In heaven there isn't any praying because there is no seperation from God.

Probably because Tradition is older than Scripture and that Scripture is a part of Tradition.

The scriptures may physically be younger than some of your traditions, but the words written there in are from God and as such supercede said traditions in age and authority.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Can a Satue of Mary Cry?
Yes...with God anything is possible
No, it must be a hoax

I would have added the option "yes, with men anything is possible".......one may have to read behind the lines on that one tho

 

[Tyndale]

And aside from that, if they were in heaven, why ask them to pray for you? In heaven there isn't any praying because there is no seperation from God.

But there's supposed to be a middle realm 'purgatory' which all the poor souls travel through if there's enough prayer and good deeds performed. They pray for the dead to pass through purgatory even although the bible specifically states in (Luke 16:26) "they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us".

 

[Stryder06]

But there's supposed to be a middle realm 'purgatory' which all the poor souls travel through if there's enough prayer and good deeds performed. They pray for the dead to pass through purgatory even although the bible specifically states in (Luke 16:26) "they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us".

This doctrine fails though because (A) When you're dead you're dead. (B)No amount of prayers or good deeds can justify someone

 

[Memento Mori]

(B)No amount of prayers or good deeds can justify someone

Any Catholic would agree with you there. There is no justification after death. Purgatory is a state of sanctification.

 

[PaladinValer]

When your deceased, your soul continues. You are no longer a complete person; a result of original sin.

Souls cannot die. I've shown in other threads of that truth.

Furthermore, there have been documented instances of crying icons and miracle-working icons and other Saintly relics too. That means this isn't just a Vatican Catholic belief but one of all Apostolic Christians. And unlike VCs, the rest of us have no concept of purgatory as they define it, so poking at it is nothing more than a Straw Man of the larger picture.

 

[DD2008]

You don't understand.

There is a difference in definition.

Latria signifies what we would call worship today.
Doulia signifies what we would call reverence/honor today.

I doulia fallen soldiers.
I doulia my parents.
I doulia the Saints.

I latria God only.

Actually nobody understands that's why it's a horrible practice. People see actions and hear words, they don't usually study Greek and dig into Roman apologetic excuses.

When someone sees a person kneeling in prayer before a statue or praying "hail mary" one sees nothing more than a worshiper worshiping and glorifying mary.

Glory and worship belong to God alone. We are to spread the good news of Christ not the cult of mary. If God isn't being glorified it is an unholy activity.

 

[Knee V]

When it comes to stuff like this, whether it be a crying statue, a weeping icon, gold dust, people supposedly being healed by wonder-workers, I just pay it no mind. As people much wiser than I have said in the past, the real miracle is when we can see our sins. Both God and Satan can do things that seem "fantastic" to our eyes. But if someone is given the grace to repent, then that is truly a matter that deserves our attention.

So maybe it's real, and maybe it's a hoax. But frankly, I don't care one way or the other. My life will go on just the same.

 

[MrPolo]

They pray for the dead to pass through purgatory even although the bible specifically states in (Luke 16:26) "they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us".

I understand you do not believe in Purgatory, but how does Luke 16:26 apply as a prooftext against praying for the deceased?

 

[Stryder06]

Any Catholic would agree with you there. There is no justification after death. Purgatory is a state of sanctification.

Sanctification happens during life. It is a life long process. When you die you've either been sanctified by the blood of the Lamb or you're not.

 

[PaladinValer]

And there is life after death.

 

[Stryder06]

When your deceased, your soul continues. You are no longer a complete person; a result of original sin.

Souls cannot die. I've shown in other threads of that truth.

What would be nice is scriptural evidence showing that man received an immortal soul upon his creation.

Furthermore, there have been documented instances of crying icons and miracle-working icons and other Saintly relics too. That means this isn't just a Vatican Catholic belief but one of all Apostolic Christians. And unlike VCs, the rest of us have no concept of purgatory as they define it, so poking at it is nothing more than a Straw Man of the larger picture.

[/quote]
No one is saying crying statues are strictly a catholic thing. It doesn't make it any less demonic. The bible says that many will be deceived in the last days. It mentions no denomination specific deceptions.