Crossroads

[Alone]

Hello all. I have a rather interesting problem, one this is both intricate in it's beginnings, and even more complex in the actual problem.

The beginning:

Technically, I am a Christian. My family has been devoutly Christian for ages. And yet, I have never been to church. I have never been babtized (can't spell it right, either), and I've never read the bible. Heck, I've only ever set foot in a churh once, at my brother's wedding a few years back. You see, I have never really been exposed to the realm of religion. Therefore, I have developed into someone who doesn't really take a stance upon religion: I neither believe, nor disbelieve -- I simply leave it out of my life.

Of course, you are probably asking yourselves, "Why is he posting here?" Well, you see, a event has occured in my live very recently, and this has had the effect that one might call an "Awakening" upon me.

The problem:

I was married a few years ago to a wonderful woman (that's not the problem). She was smart, funny, beautiful -- just perfect. However, a few months ago, we were taking a trip to London, when he got into a car accident. Though I was only slightly injured, she was killed.

When someone looses a person this close to them -- a person who has really become the purpose of their entire life -- one begins to wonder, "why?" Indeed, that is a question I have been asking myself for some time now. I have gone over every possible thing that could've gone wrong and/or differently that day, and yet, I can find no fault. We were driving, and I looked to my right for only a few seconds, and then I crashed into the car infront of me. I didn't even know he was infront of me (later I would learn that he had just pulled infront of me seconds before the crash). After thinking this over considerably, I have come across the thought that maybe, just maybe, there's another realm that may have had some sort of effect upon this event -- God.

Though I am un-religious, I do know a little bit about religion. You see, my wife was a devout Christian -- a "true believer" as one might say (and, she was very tolerant of my "doesn't take a stance on relgion" belief). She had taught me a few things. But this only adds to my predicament. You see, one of the questions that has arrisen is whether or not God was somehow punishing me for my non-belief. I can't really explain it much further than that. However, this also brings into question as to why is was her who was punished, and not me. She believed in God. Heck, one may describe her relationship with God as "the family member she never had." And yet, she was the one who died. It makes no sense to me that if God was indeed punishing me for this, then why was she the one who was killed?

Another question that arises is that God is supposed to be a loving, caring god, correct? And yet, he allowed something like this to happen. So, the quesiton here is, was he sleeping on the job or something? Again, I can't really explain it much further than that.

With all of this God-stuff (for lack of a better term), this also brings into focus something else -- total disbelief. If God can allow things like this to happen, or be the one who causes it, is this someone who I'd want to believe in? Is this someone who will look our for me and my family, and protect them? Or will he slack-off and allow these things to happen. Or will he cause such things, be it as punishiment or something else, to those who believe in him? These questions, have answers that are beyond me. I can't really go to a local church, since I don't really know what to do. Therefore, I would appreciate the opinions of other true Christians.

Please, I am adrift in an ocean of uncertainty. I must know the answers to these questions!

 

[SoulDeepFan1]

That is terrible to hear, my friend. The people at devioustyrant.com helped me with my problems, perhaps they can help you with your's.

 

[9T6]

Hello Alone,

The first thing I would like to assure you about is that you are certainly NOT alone! You have experienced a terrible loss and your whole life has been put into a jar, throughly shaken, and tipped out on the ground such nothing really makes sense any more and without any instructions how to put it back together again.

I would like to try and offer you some thoughts that I hope might help:

Technically, I am a Christian. My family has been devoutly Christian for ages. And yet, I have never been to church. I have never been babtized (can't spell it right, either), and I've never read the bible. Heck, I've only ever set foot in a churh once, at my brother's wedding a few years back. You see, I have never really been exposed to the realm of religion. Therefore, I have developed into someone who doesn't really take a stance upon religion: I neither believe, nor disbelieve -- I simply leave it out of my life.

This is probably the norm for most young people living in the developed "Christian" countries. This is not a problem. It is the past. As far as your faith and questions are concerned, right now you only need to focus on the present and future. So let's put your past on one side for now and look at what we have now.

When everything is going fine in life there is very little incentive to stick one's nose in the bible or sit through boring church services on a Sunday morning when the newspaper is still unread and the bedroom still needs decorating, and we didn't get home till late last night, etc. In most homes, the lounge table is decorated with the TV guide and not the bible - so you are nothing unusual concerning your previous approach of "I neither believe, nor disbelieve -- I simply leave it out of my life.".

So let's get one thing straight here: God is not in the business of responding with "Told you so, serves you right, too late to come running to me now" The moment you started to turn your mind to thinking about God in this situation he opened his arms and is pulling you into his love.

In our western world, sudden death has been reduced in scale through improvements in medical advances, social services, law enforcement, etc and usually occurs in hospitals away from common view. The effect is that we live as though death will never happen to our loved ones, only to someone else. But when it does happen, it is an enormous shock. Suddenly religion is no longer a theory that sits on the bookshelf, it has sprung up and is "in your face". Suddenly one has to know whether that loved one who yesterday was walking and talking in this world still exists, and if so where and how? We know only God can answer that and yet we realise we don't even know who God is or where to find him!

You wrote:

When someone looses a person this close to them -- a person who has really become the purpose of their entire life -- one begins to wonder, "why?"

Absolutely! And answers do not come quickly! We search ourselves to see if we were at fault, we look for fault in others - anyone or anything - in order to explain what should never have happened. Afterall, it was not as though you were doing anything that was knowingly dangerous líke climbing a mountain, where the risk is known and calculated. You were just driving along. We need to find answers because we could never accept that it just happened. The loss is too great to be settled that way. And so, inevitably, our eyes turn accusingly towards God.....as you said:

After thinking this over considerably, I have come across the thought that maybe, just maybe, there's another realm that may have had some sort of effect upon this event -- God.

so let's look at some of your questions:

one of the questions that has arrisen is whether or not God was somehow punishing me for my non-belief. I can't really explain it much further than that. However, this also brings into question as to why is was her who was punished, and not me.

God does not punish us for other people's sins. As he says himself:

"Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin. Deut 24:16

So I think you can immediately discount any suspicion that your lack of belief was the cause here.

(Some people might want to point to the following verse, but this talks about something entirely different which we do not need to talk about right now. "You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,")

So your fear that, "if God was indeed punishing me for this, then why was she the one who was killed?" is groundless. God does not work that way.

I think it is important to remember that mortal life in this world is NOT the all and end all of human existence. It is learning ground, a preparation for the real thing, ready for an eternal life in the presence of God. This means that God's primary concern is not with the health of mortal flesh but with the spirit that lives within that flesh - and that does not die when the body dies:

"And the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it." Eccl 12:7

If you are a logical person rather than an emotional person, you might like to browse through the recorded accounts of near-death experiences, where people clinically dead tell of out-of-body experiences in which they even confirm what was being done to their bodies on the operating table. These do not confirm "heaven" and "hell" but they give good evidence of the belief that the spirit leaves the body upon mortal death - and is an added boost to our hope and faith!

Another question that arises is that God is supposed to be a loving, caring god, correct? And yet, he allowed something like this to happen. So, the quesiton here is, was he sleeping on the job or something? Again, I can't really explain it much further than that.

I am glad that here you are talking about God "allowing" suffering instead of "causing" it. Unfortunately, there is no simple answer to the question of why God allows suffering. There is a lot we could talk about here, but I think I will leave that to you whether you want to explore this further. All I will say here, for now, is that in Christianity, the emphasis is turned away from seeking the reason for suffering towards what actually comes out of it as a result. Many, many people witness to the way in which God turns even the worst evil into something good. This doesn't mean that it was a "good" thing that evil happened - but that something of great value is retrieved from the fact that it did occur - that evil does not occur entirely in vain.

If God can allow things like this to happen, or be the one who causes it, is this someone who I'd want to believe in? Is this someone who will look our for me and my family, and protect them? Or will he slack-off and allow these things to happen. Or will he cause such things, be it as punishiment or something else, to those who believe in him?

Here again, we need to clarify what it is that we want and hope that God is going to protect. Is it God's purpose in creating the world that we can all have a party here and nothing ever goes wrong? If there is no God then there is no rule that life should be good OR bad - it would just be chance. If there IS a God then we need to believe that the "good" life comes after this one. Either way, there is no reason why God would make this lifetime nothing more than a material fun park. I hope I am not speaking too bluntly here?

So the Christian focus is not on this world but on the next, and that this world is only a stepping stone into the next. Therefore we place our trust in God that he will always do the right thing even when we haven't a clue ourselves what that might be. But we need to remember that one of our greatest gifts from God is our free-will - and in order for it to remain free, God will not always intervene and intercept, so inevitably the results of many people's freewills will clash and things do go wrong as a result (otherwise Christians would be in huge demand as passengers for every flight in the world!). God's purpose is simple, he wants us to believe in him, and through belief come to love him, and through love for him to obey him. That is not easy for us, but for God all things are possible

Please, I am adrift in an ocean of uncertainty. I must know the answers to these questions!

I am ready adn willing to talk with you as much as you want or need. I do not have all the answers (nor maybe even any!) but I am happy to share with you what I have discovered along the way

I would suggest you start to read the bible, but maybe not from page 1 onwards. Maybe starting with some of Paul's shorter letters and Mark's gospel will get you off to a good start.

You have my deepest sympathies for your tragedy.

 

[Anti Existance]

Its because you are viewing things from a 'one life' atheist term , the soul lives on so on a term of several lives its perfectly acceptable if people die because nothing is lost , this is hard to imagine but i advice you to read some stories on www.near-death.com, God has a reason for you to be here, and when someone's time comes then God calls that person back, and questions run thru your head on why and how, i suggest you read the near-death experience of Betty Eadie to fully understand why death comes to us. http://www.near-death.com/forum/nde/000/93.html

Hope it helps.

 

[Alone]

9T6, thank you for your imput on this manner. Seriously. However, there is a considerable amount of content within your post that appears too contradictory (I can't really explain it, probably as a result of my non-religious background). I mean, it's the uncertanity of what God (if he even exists) does or doesn't do that causes confusion. Moreover, I can't actually pick up a bible and start reading it (from any point in the book), simply because I neither have the time, nor the patience. Granted, I have tried in the past to get through a few pages (at the insistance of my wife), and yet, I was lost by the end of the first sentence -- it's that bad for me.

However, you have cleared-up one point -- that God was not the one who killed her. However, that still leaves the question of why he would allow occurances such as this to happen. As you have said (I may have mis-interpreted it), our life now is some sort of prelude to a better one. Yet, if that is the case, what is the purpose of this life? Moreover, there is still the question of, if medical advances/God's will/whatever has allowed man to live a much longer life than at any other time in history, then surely that is for a reason, that being to acutally live your life to it's fullest extents, then why is it that she was killed at 24?

Its because you are viewing things from a 'one life' atheist term , the soul lives on so on a term of several lives its perfectly acceptable if people die because nothing is lost , this is hard to imagine but i advice you to read some stories on , God has a reason for you to be here, and when someone's time comes then God calls that person back, and questions run thru your head on why and how, i suggest you read the near-death experience of Betty Eadie to fully understand why death comes to us.

Hope it helps.

Anti Existance, near-death experiances are not something that I am trying to explore. Yes, I did browse through those sites, but I left with the simple expression of, "O....k...., um... wha?" I am not looking for evidence that there is some sort of human spirt, or that there is a heaven or hell, but if God has played a role in my wife's death.

Thanks anyway. Even though I may have seem unappreciative, I seriously am grateful for everyone's assitance in this manner.

As much as I hate to jump to conclusions when I've only just asked this question, SouldDeepFan1, this site of yours, and the people on it, have actually offered at lot more sense than I had espected. Granted, when I first walked in, the first thing that came to mind was "What a hellish place. Let me guess, satanists?" And yet, I actually went through and posted a little bit, and talked with a few members on an outside messenger service. The people on this site have actually given me a great deal of guidance in terms of how this accident could have happened, but more importantly in how to deal with it. There actually appears to be much more wisdom in that place than at first glance.

Don't get me wrong, I still wish to explore the religious aspects of this a little bit further, but the people on that site have actually helped in my "struggle."

 

[traingosorry]

Alone

I am just getting home from work and am about to run out again and I don't have time to make a proper response to your question, but I want you to know I am very, very sorry for your loss. She was so young and you obviously loved her dearly - it's not fair.

How are you holding up? What is life like for you these days??

I see you've made two posts so stick around and chat with us, we'd love to get to know you more.

take care

Heather

 

[9T6]

Hi Alone...and thanks for your reply.

I am really glad that you are feel you are progressing in your searching. Some further thoughts for you:

9T6, thank you for your imput on this manner. Seriously. However, there is a considerable amount of content within your post that appears too contradictory (I can't really explain it, probably as a result of my non-religious background). I mean, it's the uncertanity of what God (if he even exists) does or doesn't do that causes confusion.

Sure, and it usually continues to appear confusing until one starts to become familiar with what God has told us that he is or is not doing. If you watch american football without understanding the rules it appears total confusion (at least to me!!). I don't mean that as a preach, only that God works in many ways that are contrary to our human values and therefore is not automatically clear to us. That clarity usually only comes through prayer, communicating with other Christians and reading the bible, etc

Moreover, I can't actually pick up a bible and start reading it (from any point in the book), simply because I neither have the time, nor the patience. Granted, I have tried in the past to get through a few pages (at the insistance of my wife), and yet, I was lost by the end of the first sentence -- it's that bad for me.

Ok. There is no point in you trying to force it. But if you are exploring issues relating to Christianity and are going to rely only on what other people tell you, be prepared for some very widely differing viewpoints on some issues!

However, you have cleared-up one point -- that God was not the one who killed her. However, that still leaves the question of why he would allow occurances such as this to happen. As you have said (I may have mis-interpreted it), our life now is some sort of prelude to a better one. Yet, if that is the case, what is the purpose of this life?

This is a big question and hopefully one we can continue to discuss. But I would offer you here one point to ponder on. If God has given us free-will, then that means that many things in this world are purely the result of man's own decisions. God does not step in every time one of our decisions is a bad one. Let's take an obvious example: literally millions of babies die every year from simple hunger whilst others suffer from acute obesity. There is enough food in the world to feed everyone, God gives sufficient, but who is responsible for sharing it out fairly?

We can say the same about many things, even travel. Who decided to build roads with cars coming simultaneously in both directions? Who designed cars that exceed 10 mph? We cannot blame God for all our decisions. We all know sometimes air crashes occur and yet we are usually still prepared to take the risk because we see the risk as small enough. But, in the last analysis, we accept risk. That does not lay the blame at God's door, nor does it point to deliberate work of the devil, either. It is the exercise of free-will, which has a far greater purpose than simply allowing us to control (to some extent) how we live here.

I won't say more about that until i hear your reply!

Moreover, there is still the question of, if medical advances/God's will/whatever has allowed man to live a much longer life than at any other time in history, then surely that is for a reason, that being to acutally live your life to it's fullest extents, then why is it that she was killed at 24?

If you believe the bible then people in ancient times lived for many hundreds of years! Isaac was born when Abraham's wife was 100 yrs old. Extension in life years through medical and health knowledge is only the eradication of unhealthy living (e.g. smoking, alcohol, high fat levels, hygiene standards, etc) it is not necessarily a change in God's will. In Jesus' time, life expectancy was 40-50 years and many children died under the age of 10. In fact child deaths were extremely comon even only 100 years ago. So the purpose of this life cannot be measured in terms of life-span. It is something else entirely.

Anti Existance, near-death experiances are not something that I am trying to explore. Yes, I did browse through those sites, but I left with the simple expression of, "O....k...., um... wha?" I am not looking for evidence that there is some sort of human spirt, or that there is a heaven or hell, but if God has played a role in my wife's death.

That is OK. I don't think the idea was to offer anything more than an additional evidence that the human spirit does exist and independently from the body. It is not a core issue here at all.

I still wish to explore the religious aspects of this a little bit further."

We're here for as long as you want to discuss anything related to your struggles.